Jogging

[frepi]

Welcome Rebirther,
Opinions on Goenka's technique are very divergent. Some newcomers don't like him and some like him. But newcomers (like me) have an opinion that is not really based on deep knowledge of what meditation is. But it is the same for seasoned meditators. Matthew thinks , based on what he read and on some people he spoke with, that Goenka is a charlatant. However, other seasoned meditators say exactly the opposite. So we do not really know for sure. The article you are refering to has been read by almost everyone here. I personnaly find it enlightening but most what is found in it can be applied to a lot of meditation techniques, not only Goenka's.

[Alex]

Hi,

And thanks. 
Yes. I've read a little today and I noticed that TIB already posted a link to that article. And that the controversy is in several threads.
I actually registered once for the Goenka-course here in Belgium and I filled in the registration form truthfully, mentioning I was also involved with reiki, which has been a valuable aid in my personal growth.
They mailed me, saying that I could follow one course, if I didn't practice reiki during the course, but if I wanted to pursue this path and do more retreats, I should stop with reiki. I phoned them to understand why, but there was no discussion possible with their representative. It was incompatible with vipassana and there was some risk for my own metal health
I was very disappointed that they wouldn't consider me as an individual and that apparently I was not welcome as myself...
Now it doesn't matter anymore. I have found my path and the organization to help me along it and I'm very grateful for that.

[frepi]

Yes, there seems to be a big no-no for the combination of reiki and vipassana but I do not know why. Many people experienced severe metal health problems during vipassana retreats and it seems that for some of them, it had to do with reiki practice.

[Alex]

I can accept the way they choose to run their organization.

However, I still wish to understand. And it is difficult for me to understand, because I’ve been practising both for several years now, with only benefits for my mental health. So, in my opinion, they should look beyond the label “reiki”.
For me, it is very strange that an organization promoting a technique to see things as they are, does not see things as they are.
Also, they would allow me to do one retreat. What does that mean? The danger comes later???
It’s a pity that they’re following some rule blindly and that there was no opportunity to discuss this with someone who actually knew why or who would have been prepared/able to look beyond the label “reiki”.

Anyway, I’m just expressing my thoughts here. I’m not really expecting an answer. Not on the essence anyway.

I do however would like some thought on my question from yesterday on running during a retreat. Anyone? 

[mettajoey]

rebirther,

It sounds like you already have the go ahead to train while you are there.  Going for a run sounds like a great way to clear your head.

I'm currently training for a triathlon and I find the effort involved in endurance work to be a great opportunity for mindfulness training.  I don't use headphones or just wait for the endorphins to kick in, I notice the amount of mental suffering (have you ever noticed how unhappy many people look when running?) I may be experiencing versus the actual physical effort required to reach my goal.  I noticed my breathing and make sure I'm not too upright striving for goals or being concerned about reaching them or getting injured.  That way I can properly oxygenate my system.  I feel my body to find the right balance between good effort for development versus pushing past the spot my body reasonably recover and possible injury.

Each challenge we have in live is an opportunity to practice the Dharma.  This is the path.

I hope my reply was what you may be looking for. 

Warmly,
-Joe 

[Alex]

@mettajoey

You’re right: I already received the go ahead. Maybe I worry too much.
In the retreat I did last year, there was a man who went running to distract himself, which obviously they tried to dissuade him from.
I just want to make the most of this retreat and if me training interferes with that, then I would just let it be and pick it up again after the retreat.
But I see there is no reason why it should interfere...
Thanks for your answer. I will just be as attentive during my run as I will be during sitting and walking.

@frepi

Thanks for your answer. Unfortunately hypothesizing doesn’t really help us.

[mettajoey]

I can accept the way they choose to run their organization.

However, I still wish to understand. And it is difficult for me to understand, because I’ve been practising both for several years now, with only benefits for my mental health. So, in my opinion, they should look beyond the label “reiki”.
For me, it is very strange that an organization promoting a technique to see things as they are, does not see things as they are.
Also, they would allow me to do one retreat. What does that mean? The danger comes later???
It’s a pity that they’re following some rule blindly and that there was no opportunity to discuss this with someone who actually knew why or who would have been prepared/able to look beyond the label “reiki”.

Anyway, I’m just expressing my thoughts here. I’m not really expecting an answer. Not on the essence anyway.

I do however would like some thought on my question from yesterday on running during a retreat. Anyone? 

I am just hypothesizing here but I guess they assume that you would follow the rules and not practice reiki while in the retreat. Once you go back home, you start mixing both and then the problems might arise. If you then develop a routine of reiki and vipassana you might keep it in the following retreats.

I do not know the true reason beyond what I wrote: some reiki practionners experienced mental problems when mixing the practice with vipassana. Goenka's retrat are un-compromising and the isolation of the practionner is strong. Some people develop serotonin related problems due to the lack of external stimuli. But this is what I read on the web so I can't tell if it is true or not. I wouldn't exclude a form of "religious exclusivity" common to many meditation traditions. Goenka in his evening speech warns to stay with one meditation technique, not to mix with others, but his explanation as to why this shouldn't be done is just an allegory, nothing real. He says "Imagine your self riding a horse and suddenly you decide to ride a second horse. How can you ride two horses at the same time? One leg on one horse and the other one the other horse?" It doesn't satisfy me.

Goenka doesn't endorse Reiki because Reiki practice is to change patterns or paths of negative energy in the body.  Vipassana is to observe things as they are, not to change what is being felt.  They are two completely different techniques.  I believe Reiki has a place, especially for those who will likely never become Vipassana players.  It helps to move a negative energy focus in the body.  Vipassana practice is to accept what is and eventually let it unravel on it's own through observation.  Doing both is akin to doing power-lifting to train for a marathon.  Both power-lifting and marathons are great for fitness but mixing the techniques doesn't make sense.  Being able to run 26 miles is not going to help to squat 500+ pounds or vice-versa.

[Alex]

Goenka doesn't endorse Reiki because Reiki practice is to change patterns or paths of negative energy in the body.  Vipassana is to observe things as they are, not to change what is being felt.  They are two completely different techniques.  I believe Reiki has a place, especially for those who will likely never become Vipassana players.  It helps to move a negative energy focus in the body.  Vipassana practice is to accept what is and eventually let it unravel on it's own through observation.  Doing both is akin to doing power-lifting to train for a marathon.  Both power-lifting and marathons are great for fitness but mixing the techniques doesn't make sense.  Being able to run 26 miles is not going to help to squat 500+ pounds or vice-versa.

Using analogies is great, but sometimes confusing. What do you mean by 'mixing the techniques' in terms of vipassana and reiki?

[ivana]

Good story, my story is going from jogging to swimming and now it is meditation. Everything I enjoyed maybe I give up jogging before I have a problem with my knees and I give up swimming before I have an allergy to watter. But sometimes I jogg and swimm as well. But not so often as before.