Author Topic: 2 hrs of mantra meditation for beginner  (Read 5376 times)

mentovinta

  • Guest
2 hrs of mantra meditation for beginner
« on: September 11, 2010, 07:35:15 AM »
Hi,

I have been suffering from anxiety disorder for 30 years. From recent experience, I found that mantra
meditation is giving me lot of relief. Within a month, I am able to do 40 mins meditation twice a day. I am not forcing my
meditation, I actually enjoy these sessions.

Now I want to a add a third session of 40 mins (so it comes to a total of 2 hrs of mantra meditation each day).

But I am afraid to add the third session as I read some horror stories about excessive meditation. Especially, since I have
this anxiety disorder for so many years, I am afraid that doing 2 hrs of meditation every day may backfire, bring 
all anxiety and unpleasant experiences out at once.

But so far I never had any unpleasant experiences. I always enjoy my meditation sessions.

What should I do? Can I go ahead with the third session? Please advise me.

Thank you.
Mento

Morning Dew

  • Guest
Re: 2 hrs of mantra meditation for beginner
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2010, 08:03:13 AM »
Hallo friend :-)

Mantra meditation maybe helping you at the moment with your anxiety but out of your reply I can see that it is not helping you permanently :-)
You seem to be concerned about IFs ... if this if that ... meaning that you certainly are still clinging to aversions, rejections and desires my friend.

I would advice you to start practicing and reinforcing mindfulness and awareness of the whole body instead of mantra.
By doing this excercise you will also see whether you are afraid to leave the mantra meditation or not. If you feel insecure without your mantra meditation you can know for sure that you are clinging to it my friend :-) and clinging causes suffering.

The same mantars helpped you to come to this point the same way Ki-breathing helpped me to calm some of my anxiety, but I like you did come to this point and started facing the ME as I really am without fabricating anything, just sitting and calming the body and observing all that arises in the mind without judging it without clinging to it without desiering it without rehecting it ... as it is :-)

I would advise you to start with Shamatha instead and do not push your self too much. Once or twice a day is plenty for start. I do 45 minutes once a day in the morning. If this meditation is done in calm abiding it invokes joy and deep calm throughout my whole day :-)
In a case I feel a bit out of place at work or else I might go into the WC and sit there for 5 minutes just to get the calmness going again :-)

Remain relaxed and remain mindful

Copey

  • Guest
Re: 2 hrs of mantra meditation for beginner
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2010, 12:56:09 PM »
Hi Mentovinta. I think it is great that you've established a meditation practice and that after 30 years of anxiety disorder you're finally getting some relief. I myself have practiced mantra meditation before and I personally found it to be of great help for my own anxiety and depression problems. I think that 40 minutes twice a day is absolutely fine and I wouldn't see a need to do any more than that for the time being. It is true that if you over-do it then you could end up doing yourself more harm than good as you could bring up a lot of unresolved issues into your concious awareness before you're ready to handle them. You need to take things slowly or you might regret it. I know this from personal experience and it can be unpleasant. If your getting relief at the moment, then why change it. Take things slowly and gently. You will know in time when you are ready to increase your sessions. The very fact that you are currently debating this probably means that your not ready as yet. And who says you need to increase your practice time anyway as I believe 80 minutes a day is sufficient enough.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2010, 12:58:22 PM by Copey »

punkmonk

  • Guest
Re: 2 hrs of mantra meditation for beginner
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2010, 09:22:39 PM »
Mento,

I'm glad that you are receiving some relief from your anxiety. I must ask you, have you ever taken medication to deal with your anxiety? I ask because, if your biology is in need of medicine to make it operate at a baseline level, and you are not getting that, all the meditation and mindfulness practice in the world will not do you any good. At least not for the long term. Many folks have an aversion to taking medicine, but I believe this is misguided. Medicine has been used to calm the mind for centuries. In Japan, practitioners or meditation have consumed green tea for centuries because of the L-theanine present in it, that calms the mind and helps with mental clarity. 2 hours of meditation practice a day is a lot, even if it's not forced. I would be careful to investigate within yourself what truly comes up when you think about anxiety, meditation, and medicine. All the best, and I hope this was helpful.

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Staff
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: 2 hrs of mantra meditation for beginner
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2010, 01:00:24 PM »
I can not agree less with punmonk's conclusions. Firstly there is one principal  benefit from your taking psychotropic medication for mental suffering: long term dependency on the meds, which won't work after a while anyway - and you're not the beneficiary, the pharma industry is. Secondly mindfulness, or "sati" in Pali, also means "remembering". Through meditation in appropriate doses one brings back to consciousness the negative experiences which are leading to the distress in most cases of "mental ill-health". This actually offers a long term solution to the problem: remembering and properly processing the events that scarred you heals you. You must however process the memories and the whole thing must be relaxed, gentle and full of self-compassion. Maintaining balance in your life is key, not just on the cushion but off it especially.

Medication covers up the wounds for a while. Meditation, if not forced, lets the wounds open to the air of awareness and then heal.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

mentovinta

  • Guest
Re: 2 hrs of mantra meditation for beginner
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2010, 04:32:57 AM »
Hallo friend :-)

Mantra meditation maybe helping you at the moment with your anxiety but out of your reply I can see that it is not helping you permanently :-)
You seem to be concerned about IFs ... if this if that ... meaning that you certainly are still clinging to aversions, rejections and desires my friend.

I would advice you to start practicing and reinforcing mindfulness and awareness of the whole body instead of mantra.
By doing this excercise you will also see whether you are afraid to leave the mantra meditation or not. If you feel insecure without your mantra meditation you can know for sure that you are clinging to it my friend :-) and clinging causes suffering.

The same mantars helpped you to come to this point the same way Ki-breathing helpped me to calm some of my anxiety, but I like you did come to this point and started facing the ME as I really am without fabricating anything, just sitting and calming the body and observing all that arises in the mind without judging it without clinging to it without desiering it without rehecting it ... as it is :-)

I would advise you to start with Shamatha instead and do not push your self too much. Once or twice a day is plenty for start. I do 45 minutes once a day in the morning. If this meditation is done in calm abiding it invokes joy and deep calm throughout my whole day :-)
In a case I feel a bit out of place at work or else I might go into the WC and sit there for 5 minutes just to get the calmness going again :-)

Remain relaxed and remain mindful


Hi Dew, thank you very much for your response. I tried samatha or vipassana meditations but I became more anxious. My personal experience is that mantra meditation gives me relief from anxiety. But I am at a very beginner level, I am sure it will take a while before I see better results. I will remember your advice, may be in future I may be able to follow it.

mentovinta

  • Guest
Re: 2 hrs of mantra meditation for beginner
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2010, 04:45:02 AM »
Copey, Matt, & punkmonk

Thank you very much for your responses. I am currently taking medication but my doctor and I are confident that I can stop it gradually. Results from meditation are very encouraging. One more thing, I was experimenting with my meditation timings and found that 20 min meditation session is more useful than 40 min session. A 40 min session gives me immediate relaxation but it is disturbing sleep a bit. Don't have that problem with 20 min session.

In the book 'Mindfulness in Plain English" the author generally suggests to start with a 20 or 30 min session and reach 1 hr level in a year's time. May be I should gradually increase the time, something like 5 min every month. Right now, I am doing 20 min session twice a day.

Please let me know your thoughts.


« Last Edit: October 06, 2010, 04:52:20 AM by mentovinta »

toadorigins

  • Guest
Re: 2 hrs of mantra meditation for beginner
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2010, 07:23:09 PM »
Dear Irreverant Buddhist,
Are you a doctor?  Have you every received any medical training, spec. psychiatric training?  What makes you say that meds stop working after awhile?  Did you know that only a minority of medications built a dependency, and even for those only at a specific dose?  
I have to deal with this sort of ignorance on a daily basis from my friends.  Psychiatry is an established science.

mentovinta

  • Guest
Re: 2 hrs of mantra meditation for beginner
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2010, 04:55:49 AM »
Dear Irreverant Buddhist,
Are you a doctor?  Have you every received any medical training, spec. psychiatric training?  What makes you say that meds stop working after awhile?  Did you know that only a minority of medications built a dependency, and even for those only at a specific dose? 
I have to deal with this sort of ignorance on a daily basis from my friends.  Psychiatry is an established science.


« Last Edit: October 09, 2010, 05:01:19 AM by mentovinta »

Morning Dew

  • Guest
Re: 2 hrs of mantra meditation for beginner
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2010, 06:34:40 AM »
@ mentovinta;

Quote
Are you a doctor

As a matter of fact he is :D he is my personal gynecologist, honestly!

Remain relaxed remain mindful


mentovinta

  • Guest
Re: 2 hrs of mantra meditation for beginner
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2010, 04:17:08 AM »
@ mentovinta;

Quote
Are you a doctor

As a matter of fact he is :D he is my personal gynecologist, honestly!

Remain relaxed remain mindful



Hi Morning Dew,
Sorry I am asking again. You are talking about toadorigins right?

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Staff
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: 2 hrs of mantra meditation for beginner
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2010, 10:13:47 PM »
Dear Irreverant Buddhist,
Are you a doctor?  Have you every received any medical training, spec. psychiatric training?  What makes you say that meds stop working after awhile?  Did you know that only a minority of medications built a dependency, and even for those only at a specific dose? 
I have to deal with this sort of ignorance on a daily basis from my friends.  Psychiatry is an established science.

Did you know that only a minority of medicines show any improvement over a sugar-pill?

"Psychiatry is an established science".

WRONG. And hahahahahahahahahaah .... wow some people really fool themselves.

Define:Science in google:

"Science (from the Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge") is, in its broadest sense, any systematic knowledge-base or prescriptive practice that is capable of resulting in a correct prediction, or reliably-predictable type of outcome. ..." Wikipedia.

Go tell all the people related to your victims who killed themselves on Paxil that your science has "predictable outcomes".....

Explain why the list of side effects on psychiatric/psychotropic reads like a death sentence.... not very predictable in most cases.....

Not very "scientific".

There are:

No blood tests or;

Scan tests or;

X-rays or;

ANY KIND OF SCIENTIFIC TEST for the majority of DGSM-IV disorders.

"Psychiatric Illnesses" are decided upon by a group of Psychiatrists voting a set of behavioural characteristics into a disease model then having it entered into DGSM.

Now it's a disease you can give someone a drug for it.

Whoopeee ..... Psychiatrists and Big Pharma give each other a big boost. Psychiatrists start to look a little bit like real medics (until you examine the way the system works) which was what they wanted all along - as their REAL medical colleagues always (rightfully) looked down on them as quacks. Big Pharma now has a steady stream of lifetime dependent drug users all convinced they are ill because they answered a couple of questions on a questionnaire honestly and got themselves in a mess.

But ... bad luck my friend ... the REAL medics still (rightfully) look down on you. You offer no cures only "symptom management". And most of your drugs are highly toxic with side effects worse than the problems they are prescribed for.

Watch all of this video before you post a reply please:

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=9083404572198377643

Scientific method AKA "Psychiatrists all fall down":

"Scientific method refers to a body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge.[1] To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning.[2] A scientific method consists of the collection of data through observation and experimentation, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses.[3]

Although procedures vary from one field of inquiry to another, identifiable features distinguish scientific inquiry from other methods of obtaining knowledge. Scientific researchers propose hypotheses as explanations of phenomena, and design experimental studies to test these hypotheses. These steps must be repeatable, to predict future results. Theories that encompass wider domains of inquiry may bind many independently derived hypotheses together in a coherent, supportive structure. Theories, in turn, may help form new hypotheses or place groups of hypotheses into context.

Scientific inquiry is generally intended to be as objective as possible, to reduce biased interpretations of results. Another basic expectation is to document, archive and share all data and methodology so they are available for careful scrutiny by other scientists, giving them the opportunity to verify results by attempting to reproduce them. This practice, called full disclosure, also allows statistical measures of the reliability of these data to be established."
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

kidnovice

  • Member
    • Theravada: with nuts and bolts from Goenka-ji, and fine tuning from Thanissaro Bhikkhu
Re: 2 hrs of mantra meditation for beginner
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2010, 10:36:23 PM »
I think it goes without saying that Psychiatry is an imperfect system for treating mental illness, and that pharmaceuticals are vastly over-prescribed while other modalities are completely ignored, especially with respect to depression and attention disorders.

However, I would be very very wary of advising anyone and everyone to stop taking medicine that has been prescribed for a "mental illness."  People suffering from certain types of mental illness--albeit a tiny minority of the population-- are significantly helped by medication, and often find no other method to alleviate their symptoms. These same people usually fall into cycles where they stop their meds, and then suffer terrible self-destructive relapses until finally returning to their meds. It is not uncommon for these same people turn to meditation, hoping that they can substitute it for their meds. Frequently, these people spiral out of control.

When I say all that, I am NOT making a blanket statement that all people should take medication for their mental illnesses. But I think this is a dangerous forum to even IMPLY that someone should stop their meds. Very very dangerous. Especially if you don't know more about their particular condition.

The heart of buddhist practice is for you to look inside yourself, and see how the choices you are making are determining your happiness and your suffering. Are you making choices that are conducive to your own happiness? If so, continue making those choices until you sense they are no longer working. If a choice is not conducive to your own happiness, then find SKILLFUL ways to let it go.

This all applies to taking medications to treat mental illness. If you are taking meds, and you find them conducive to your happiness. Then go with that until you have reason to believe otherwise.  Likewise, if you decide that the meds are no longer conducive to your true happiness, then you can begin exploring how to SKILLFULLY stop taking them. This almost surely involves doing so under the guidance of a professional (familiar with your condition) who you trust, and who can help you monitor your progress as you stop the meds. Doing anything else is fraught with needless risk.

With metta,
KN

 
« Last Edit: October 11, 2010, 10:41:18 PM by kidnovice »
May we cultivate the serenity to accept the things we cannot change; the compassion to change the things we can; and the wisdom to know the difference.

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Staff
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: 2 hrs of mantra meditation for beginner
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2010, 07:50:37 AM »
KN,

Don't find any fault in what you write. I'm not proposing anyone go cold turkey on their psych meds, merely stating that Psychiatry is not a science, does not even resemble a science and is not based in scientific method.

Doping people does not deal with the causes of suffering, merely makes them go away (sometimes). Other times it makes people kill themselves or become drug dependent for life and unable to deal with the causes of suffering.

Also most of the "science" behind Psychiatry is utterly twisted statistics. They do things like ignore the fact that in human trials perfectly sane people kill themselves (9 attempted and 4 succeeded in one - the drug still got FDA approval for depression, from a panel of people who are mainly employed by Pharma companies).

This is not science - it is marketing of drugs for invented disease. The Psych industry and Pharma are as one speaker in the film puts it "like conjoined twins - joined at the wallet".

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

MeditationMan

  • Guest
Re: 2 hrs of mantra meditation for beginner
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2010, 03:36:21 AM »
Hi Mentovinta. I think it is great that you've established a meditation practice and that after 30 years of anxiety disorder you're finally getting some relief. I myself have practiced mantra meditation before and I personally found it to be of great help for my own anxiety and depression problems. I think that 40 minutes twice a day is absolutely fine and I wouldn't see a need to do any more than that for the time being. It is true that if you over-do it then you could end up doing yourself more harm than good as you could bring up a lot of unresolved issues into your concious awareness before you're ready to handle them. You need to take things slowly or you might regret it. I know this from personal experience and it can be unpleasant. If your getting relief at the moment, then why change it. Take things slowly and gently. You will know in time when you are ready to increase your sessions. The very fact that you are currently debating this probably means that your not ready as yet. And who says you need to increase your practice time anyway as I believe 80 minutes a day is sufficient enough.

Wow, 80 minutes a day of meditation?  That seems unachievable for me.  I'm a newbie, so getting 5-10 minutes a day for me is great, I feel as if I've already begun seeing the benefits on my psyche.  Hopefully one day I'll have the time to meditate for 80 minutes. Wow.

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Staff
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: 2 hrs of mantra meditation for beginner
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2010, 09:06:30 AM »
Don't make it a question of hope.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Morning Dew

  • Guest
Re: 2 hrs of mantra meditation for beginner
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2010, 09:20:52 AM »
Meditation is not an indurance race it is about developing calm awareness :)
10 minutes is fine to start with and bring the calm aware state into your daily life.

 

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