Author Topic: Boyfriend at Vipassana - I'm scared  (Read 13718 times)

Guest

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Boyfriend at Vipassana - I'm scared
« on: September 04, 2010, 02:58:28 PM »
Hi there,

I've been very scared for the last 2 days.My boyfriend went to vipassana and now it's the day 4.I have read a lot of experiences about vipassana and it makes me nervous to hear that life will never be the same anymore.Of course I'm proud of him and happy that he wants to do this but I have fears.

Maybe it's good that you know our story so you could help me.We dated a year and a half back in the days.He cheated and lied to me many times and I always forgave him and we continued because our relationship seemed to be very good if you don't count the ugly things happened.We also tried free love - he wanted me to have other boyfriends but I didn't want him to have girlfriends because I was not ready for free love.It was a problem so we ended it.He cheated me anyways.After all we broke up and he went travelling around world for 4 months.We kept in touch quite often and he wanted me to join.I found a new boyfriend and I did not went for the travelling.Soon my ex realized that he loves me and I'm the woman of his life and he came back to me.I also realized that he is the man I want to live with - I did not feel good with the new boyfriend.So we started a relationship again and love between us has been very strong and beautiful and he proposed me a month ago but we are not officially engaged yet.We feel that we are made to each other.

I know that I'm selfish if I think that I want to keep him.I'm not ready for losing him and I feel that we could be perfect couple and our love is amazing so I want to continue our relationship and develop it.I'm afraid that his thoughts of love will change and he will leave me or find a girl from vipassana.He promised me that our life will continue together after vipassana and I should be not scared at all because he loves me so much and has proposed me but after all the stories I have read it is very hard to believe that he wants to continue our relationship as it was.I'm very scared of losing him and our beautiful life.

Any thoughts appreciated.
Thank you.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 01:27:23 PM by The Irreverent Buddhist »

kidnovice

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Re: Boyfriend at Vipassana - I'm scared
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2010, 08:32:53 PM »
Hi S,

There is something quite tragic (though almost cliched) in your story.  My heart swelled with compassion as I read it, even as I knew that there was little I (or anyone) could say to improve your situation. YOU need to decide to make yourself happy. Obviously, you need to to break up with your lying, cheating, prick of a boyfriend. And you know it. However, even more importantly, you need to figure out why you are so attached to a lying, cheating, prick of a boyfriend. What makes you cling to such a roller-coaster of misery? What makes you reject happiness (the nice guys), and seek out misery (the assholes)? You can do better. Everyone can.

As for your star-crossed boyfriend, his ten-day vipassana course is unlikely to change him much (for good or ill). The terrible stories you find on the internet make up a very small, but very loud minority of people who attend retreats. In my observation, the vast majority of people have very powerful (and positive) experiences for which they are quite grateful.  

In the best case scenario, your boyfriend (and I use the term loosely) may be positively transformed by the experience of the retreat, and realize how cruel and self-centered he has been. If this is true, he will show-up glowing and happy, promising that he will never cheat again because he has found his "path."  However, you should know that when he says this, he is lying (to himself and you). Trust me.

Miraculous transformations happen, but they are very rare. Instead, just about EVERYONE leaves with an exaggerated belief about how much they have changed. This settles down until they realize they are still the same loser that attended the retreat in the first place. People who diligently continue practicing eventually find that their "bad habits" haven't disappeared, but do become less frequent. Although I will testify to what a beautiful and helpful path this is, it is also a long and gradual one that doesn't get finished in a week (or year) or two.

In your case, this means your boyfriend will continue to cheat on you. But hopefully, if vipassana works, he will cheat less often. How does that sound? He will still be an asshole, just a bit less frequently. As I mentioned earlier, you can do better. However, you seriously need to do some soul searching to understand why you keep making self-destructive choices. Once you have done that, you can start shaping your life in a more positive way.  Its the same path we are all on.

I wish you the best of luck. May you find the happiness you deserve,
KN
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 01:27:01 PM by The Irreverent Buddhist »
May we cultivate the serenity to accept the things we cannot change; the compassion to change the things we can; and the wisdom to know the difference.

Guest

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Re: Boyfriend at Vipassana - I'm scared
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2010, 07:46:46 AM »
Dear kidnovice,
thank you for your thoughts.I was quite shocked that you are so sure that he will never change even he went to vipassana.I believe that people can change.He said that he will never cheat me anymore because he wants to be rest of his life with me and knows what it feels like to lose me.He is very interested in self-development and that is the reason he went to vipassana.He wants to change.

I have been with "nice guys" but I felt almost bad to be with those persons.I felt no love or connection what I feel with my boyfriend.He says the same - he have never felt like this with other girls and I'm his first girlfriend.

I know that you are speaking the truth about the fact that I'm the one person who can decide of my life and make me happy.I don't have to wait for someone to make up decisions about my life.But it feels so strange that I should break up with him - we know what it's like to be alone,with other partners and I know that there is something really beautiful between us.Of course there is still jealousy and fear about him cheating because we have been together only for about 3 months now again but I believe that those thoughts will go away.

After all,I would like to read experiences about love relationships after vipassana.

Thank you,
s
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 01:27:56 PM by The Irreverent Buddhist »

Matthew

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Re: Boyfriend at Vipassana - I'm scared
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2010, 09:00:40 AM »
S,

Dear kidnovice,
thank you for your thoughts.I was quite shocked that you are so sure that he will never change even he went to vipassana.I believe that people can change.He said that he will never cheat me anymore because he wants to be rest of his life with me and knows what it feels like to lose me.

Lying cheating men always know exactly what to say to keep the fish on the hook. I know - I was one once, long ago. It takes years to change because it takes years to remember why you are an asshole.

He is very interested in self-development and that is the reason he went to vipassana.He wants to change.

Get back with him when he has - or start a similar process of change (I do not recommend Goenka retreats to anyone).

I have been with "nice guys" but I felt almost bad to be with those persons.

Meditation is about the development of mindfulness or awareness called Sati in Pali - the language the Buddha's teachings are preserved in. Sati also means remembering. You would benefit from remembering what in life conditioned you to be this way. Be strong - it won't be pretty.

I felt no love or connection what I feel with my boyfriend.He says the same - he have never felt like this with other girls and I'm his first girlfriend.

This sounds more and more like co-dependency the more you write. That is not love - it's falling for a stupid habit of thinking someone else can make you happy and denying the reality they make you suffer.

I know that you are speaking the truth about the fact that I'm the one person who can decide of my life and make me happy.

You aren't acting like you do.

I don't have to wait for someone to make up decisions about my life.But it feels so strange that I should break up with him - we know what it's like to be alone,with other partners and I know that there is something really beautiful between us.

Yes - it's called "believing a false dream" and "not facing up to reality". 99.9 percent of the world are addicted to these two.

Of course there is still jealousy and fear about him cheating because we have been together only for about 3 months now again but I believe that those thoughts will go away.

Those thoughts might .... his habits most likely will not.

After all,I would like to read experiences about love relationships after vipassana.

What we normally call love is absolutely nothing to do with love. It is simple brain chemistry screwing with your view of reality. We experience hormonal desires which lead to sex, this creates more hormones that make us feel good. Now whenever we think about this person and tell ourselves fairytales in our heads we can produce the chemical drugs that make us happy - we don't even need to be with them. And when we are with them our minds become flooded with these chemicals.

After about 3 years the ability of these chemicals to fool us wear off. They have done their job, usually, and lead to the next generation of human beings.

Love is the work you do to go beyond your own tiny sense of who you are to be real to everyone you meet and to meet their real needs. It has jack all to do with romantic relationships - that is pure social and chemical brainwashing. They need cattle for the farm so the writers of history have promulgated this nonsense (see video below).

You don't have to break up with your boyfriend. Like 99.9 percent of people you will probably be quite happy with a life based on falsehoods. As you say - only you can decide.

Matthew

OSHO: A Buddha Will Be Misunderstood ? (2 of 2)
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 01:29:57 PM by The Irreverent Buddhist »
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Crystal Palace

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Re: Boyfriend at Vipassana - I'm scared
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2010, 01:58:41 PM »
Was the Buddha an idiot? No.
Did he choose to be single? Yes.

That says something to me. Does it to you?

Crystal Palace
"Abstain from unwholesome actions,
Perform wholesome actions,
Purify your mind"

Buddha

kidnovice

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Re: Boyfriend at Vipassana - I'm scared
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2010, 06:38:27 PM »
Hi S,

I know my advice sounded pretty tough, and it may seem rash of me to assume that your boyfriend won't come back a changed man. It is certainly POSSIBLE that he will be immediately transformed into an honest and loyal man. Its just that in my observation, that is extremely, extremely unlikely.

You should know that I too believe people can change. My practice has enabled a tremendously positive change in my life, and I know many others who can say the same. The thing is, such change doesn't happen overnight. It involves many missteps, and many brief returns to old unhealthy habits. (these mistakes just become more and more infrequent until they fade away).  This is what I have learned from years of observing myself and others.

And unfortunately, you don't realize how obvious your situation appears from the outside. Its a pattern that has played out in so many relationships, its hard to believe anyone falls for it any more. But we all do. Its like watching a small little lamb about to be thrown into the lion's cage, and the lamb asks, "Its possible the lion won't eat me, right?"  Any observer knows what is about to happen. Yeah, maybe the lion will decide to nurse the lamb rather than eat it. Its happened before. But you wouldn't bet on it.

Now, if you are willing to accept that your boyfriend will have the occasional affair as your relationship continues (and hopefully he will eventually stop), then that is your choice to make. Perhaps you would rather have him this way than be without him. If so, be honest with yourself. But as I said before, I think you can do better.  

Much metta,
KN
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 01:30:40 PM by The Irreverent Buddhist »
May we cultivate the serenity to accept the things we cannot change; the compassion to change the things we can; and the wisdom to know the difference.

kidnovice

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Re: Boyfriend at Vipassana - I'm scared
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2010, 06:42:36 PM »
Quote
Was the Buddha an idiot? No.
Did he choose to be single? Yes.

That says something to me. Does it to you?

Crystal Palace

It says to me that celibacy is the fastest, most efficient way to get enlightened for some people. But I don't think it's something that would be emotionally healthy for most people. I am not advocating free-love, Osho-style, or anything like that (sorry, TIB, couldn't resist). However, I would definitely be wary of suggesting that celibacy is the best path for all.  I think you'd end up with alot of stifled and angry people, taking a whole lot of cold showers. :)

Metta,
KN
May we cultivate the serenity to accept the things we cannot change; the compassion to change the things we can; and the wisdom to know the difference.

Matthew

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Re: Boyfriend at Vipassana - I'm scared
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2010, 10:37:22 PM »
on Love:

(He's Catholic .. so forgive the "God" stuff but on Love he's kinda spot on).

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Guest

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Re: Boyfriend at Vipassana - I'm scared
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2010, 07:28:11 AM »
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

De Mello is familiar to me,I have read the Awareness as well my boyfriend.I think he speaks wise words.

I think our relationship could be "ideal" because we are both interested in self development and thoughts like De Mello has about love.I think that being with him is the best way for me to give up possessiveness and learn to love without dependency and fear of losing him.And I want to support my boyfriend in his developing process as well.

It's understandable that you say that I'm the lamb and he is the lion.Maybe it's the truth but life is not always easy.I want to see is the change possible - for me and my boyfriend.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 01:31:02 PM by The Irreverent Buddhist »

Vivek

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Re: Boyfriend at Vipassana - I'm scared
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2010, 09:39:22 AM »
Hi S, in addition to the helpful suggestions that others have given you, may I add that it would be better if you would address this issue in forums specifically related to self-help, relationships counselling etc. To me, your issue looks much more than just your boyfriend attending a meditation retreat. As earlier pointed out, you seem to clearly have co-dependency issues. Please address your concerns in other well-known forums as well.

Wishing you all the best.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 01:31:21 PM by The Irreverent Buddhist »
Let's go beyond this illusion, shall we?

Crystal Palace

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Re: Boyfriend at Vipassana - I'm scared
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2010, 09:48:45 AM »
Quote
Was the Buddha an idiot? No.
Did he choose to be single? Yes.

That says something to me. Does it to you?

Crystal Palace

It says to me that celibacy is the fastest, most efficient way to get enlightened for some people. But I don't think it's something that would be emotionally healthy for most people. I am not advocating free-love, Osho-style, or anything like that (sorry, TIB, couldn't resist). However, I would definitely be wary of suggesting that celibacy is the best path for all.  I think you'd end up with alot of stifled and angry people, taking a whole lot of cold showers. :)

Metta,
KN

KN,

I was not advocating celibacy. What I was suggesting was what the Buddha realized that depending on others for your happiness is not the smartest thing to do because others are subject to change. Instead it is wiser to make yourself your own island of happiness, by turning your attention inwards. That way you get a more reliable source of happiness.

You can still be married. But essentially remain 'single'.

Warmly,
CP
"Abstain from unwholesome actions,
Perform wholesome actions,
Purify your mind"

Buddha

Vivek

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Re: Boyfriend at Vipassana - I'm scared
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2010, 12:51:37 PM »
Quote
What I was suggesting was what the Buddha realized that depending on others for your happiness is not the smartest thing to do because others are subject to change.
This reminds me of what Osho said about relationships, until you are badly in a need to be in a relationship, you are not fit to be in one. I am just paraphrasing what he said. The irony is quite clear there, but I believe what he says makes perfect sense.
Let's go beyond this illusion, shall we?

Matthew

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Re: Boyfriend at Vipassana - I'm scared
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2010, 01:52:54 PM »
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

De Mello is familiar to me,I have read the Awareness as well my boyfriend.I think he speaks wise words.

I think our relationship could be "ideal" because we are both interested in self development and thoughts like De Mello has about love.I think that being with him is the best way for me to give up possessiveness and learn to love without dependency and fear of losing him.And I want to support my boyfriend in his developing process as well.

It's understandable that you say that I'm the lamb and he is the lion.Maybe it's the truth but life is not always easy.I want to see is the change possible - for me and my boyfriend.

You take into a relationship whatever you are. And no one can tell you what is right for you. Be honest with yourself is the guiding light of spiritual practice. It naturally leads to compassion when followed to conclusion. It is perfectly possible to make a relationship a part of your path if you are both working on changing yourselves to more wholesome ways. S, whatever you decide I wish you well - and we will be here if you want a simple and profound meditation practice to strengthen your efforts.

Warmly,

In the Dhamma,

Matthew

ps the DeMello video is worth a watch .. skip in about 12 minutes til he starts on Love if you want.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 01:31:58 PM by The Irreverent Buddhist »
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kidnovice

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Re: Boyfriend at Vipassana - I'm scared
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2010, 06:51:49 PM »
Thank you for the insightful clarification, CP.   :)
May we cultivate the serenity to accept the things we cannot change; the compassion to change the things we can; and the wisdom to know the difference.

boe

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Re: Boyfriend at Vipassana - I'm scared
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2010, 07:21:59 PM »
I think that being with him is the best way for me to give up possessiveness and learn to love without dependency and fear of losing him.And I want to support my boyfriend in his developing process as well.
you don't need to be with him to be happy, s.

your education, the way you were raised, your genes, your environments, etc.
have lead you to believe that you need things to be happy:
-so you would stay away from pain(beinghealthy to survive!)
-so you would procreate, etc.

you want to be happy, that's a fact.
you need someone or something outside of you to be happy, that's a false.

if meditation in the style of vipassana is not for you,
look into: "autogenic training" by Heinrich Schultz.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 01:32:42 PM by The Irreverent Buddhist »

joy

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Re: Boyfriend at Vipassana - I'm scared
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2010, 05:16:05 AM »

You can still be married. But essentially remain 'single'.


Are you married, CP ? ;D
Joy

Crystal Palace

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Re: Boyfriend at Vipassana - I'm scared
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2010, 07:28:09 AM »
No joydip Im single and ready to mingle  ;D 
"Abstain from unwholesome actions,
Perform wholesome actions,
Purify your mind"

Buddha

boe

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Re: Boyfriend at Vipassana - I'm scared
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2010, 08:11:05 PM »
If you're boyfriend doesn't want to be with you anymore, i will be with you.

I hope you don't mind i don't have any money and i am bad at just about everything i do... hahaaa

punkmonk

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Re: Boyfriend at Vipassana - I'm scared
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2010, 05:29:13 AM »
This whole thread is pretty awesome. The more I read it, the more exciting it became, because of the rich amount of practice material that it contains throughout the posts. It's very interesting to have something laid out in sequential order that so vividly illustrates not only the conditioning of the original poster, but also of the respondents, myself not excluded. To S, I would offer this:

Some would say that love is all you need. I don't agree with this at all. But, I also don't feel like it's my place to tell you what your issues are, as only you can truly pinpoint them. Love is your reward for stability. Look deeply to see what it would really take to find stability in your relationship, and work towards that. Once you achieve that, and keep working to sustain it,  then your love can be real. But, deciding love comes first, and that it will lead to stability, is something that will keep the wheel of samsara spinning for years to come.

Crystal Palace

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Re: Boyfriend at Vipassana - I'm scared
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2010, 01:55:22 PM »
Quote
What I was suggesting was what the Buddha realized that depending on others for your happiness is not the smartest thing to do because others are subject to change.

This reminds me of what Osho said about relationships, until you are badly in a need to be in a relationship, you are not fit to be in one. I am just paraphrasing what he said. The irony is quite clear there, but I believe what he says makes perfect sense.


Hello Vivek,

I would like to think its entirely the opposite: that if your are badly in a need to be in a relationship, you are definitely not fit to be in one. Why? Because too much desire will then generate an unnecessary attachment towards your partner and the relationship. And remember what the Buddha said about attachment? That it can only cause you one thing: suffering.

That's why if you have seen those really passionate romances in films, where the couple says they will love each other till death, that they love each other more than their own selves, that they will sacrifice their lives for each other, that the only purpose they are alive is because of the other person, that they cannot even imagine a single moment of their lives without the other person, blah blah blah, you might have noticed that there's always one thing missing from such passionate scenes: Smiles.

So I think a person is fit to be in a relationship when he doesn't need one. Badly.

Warmly,
Crystal Palace

PS - How is your practice going?  :)
"Abstain from unwholesome actions,
Perform wholesome actions,
Purify your mind"

Buddha

sansayan

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Re: Boyfriend at Vipassana - I'm scared
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2010, 02:14:58 PM »
I love this explanation. The way cp put it, I can't wait to write some words on it. Good day, CP.

Vivek

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Re: Boyfriend at Vipassana - I'm scared
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2010, 10:12:55 AM »
Quote
What I was suggesting was what the Buddha realized that depending on others for your happiness is not the smartest thing to do because others are subject to change.

This reminds me of what Osho said about relationships, until you are badly in a need to be in a relationship, you are not fit to be in one. I am just paraphrasing what he said. The irony is quite clear there, but I believe what he says makes perfect sense.


Hello Vivek,

I would like to think its entirely the opposite: that if your are badly in a need to be in a relationship, you are definitely not fit to be in one. Why? Because too much desire will then generate an unnecessary attachment towards your partner and the relationship. And remember what the Buddha said about attachment? That it can only cause you one thing: suffering.

That's why if you have seen those really passionate romances in films, where the couple says they will love each other till death, that they love each other more than their own selves, that they will sacrifice their lives for each other, that the only purpose they are alive is because of the other person, that they cannot even imagine a single moment of their lives without the other person, blah blah blah, you might have noticed that there's always one thing missing from such passionate scenes: Smiles.

So I think a person is fit to be in a relationship when he doesn't need one. Badly.

Warmly,
Crystal Palace

PS - How is your practice going?  :)

I am really sorry, CP. I was not checking this thread for updates for some time. Saw your post just now. Yes, I agree with you. And that is exactly what I meant too. My words just came across as meaning the opposite. Many people suffer from this insatiable hunger for a meaningful conjugal relationship (I know I had). When they do get into one, and find that there is only so much in it for them, misery follows. My break-through came with Vipassana. The sense of freedom I enjoy from all that dysfunction, is indescribable. I am eternally grateful to the Buddha, Dhamma and the Sangha.

Practice is going just fine, although the ride does get a little bumpy now and then. :)
Let's go beyond this illusion, shall we?