Author Topic: Does someone understand sutta's "Just as a clever turner.." text?  (Read 3165 times)

idud

  • Member
"Just as a clever turner or a turner's apprentice, turning long, understands: 'I turn long'; or turning short, understands: 'I turn short'

Before, I only answered that question: Am I breathing long? Yes, I am breathing long, then I continue breathing in and breathing out. But now, I can "feel" a new meaning of this text. The turner makes a long turn conciusness, he learnt that a long turn makes a better work and a short turn makes a better work that's why turner knows he is making that turn.

Like the turner, we mindfulness breathing long or short due to a specific reason: to calm body external and internal how we learnt it.

Well, I am so confused about that meaning, can you help me? I think this is a good step on my mindfulness practice.

May be, my english is not very good to explain myself about that question, I hope you understand me.

Regards,

James the Giant

Re: Does someone understand sutta's "Just as a clever turner.." text?
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2010, 09:38:01 PM »
But now, I can "feel" a new meaning of this text. The turner makes a long turn conciusness, he learnt that a long turn makes a better work and a short turn makes a better work that's why turner knows he is making that turn.

Like the turner, we mindfulness breathing long or short due to a specific reason: to calm body external and internal how we learnt it.

No.  Definitely no. 
The turner is noticing, being aware of his long or short turns, just as you are aware of your long or short breaths.
The quote shows show that the lathe worker (turner) fixes his attention one-pointedly with his chisel on a single spot while the wooden spindle is in ceaseless motion.  The meditator does likewise at the "entrance spot" while the breath continuously flows past.

Never try to breathe differently.  Accept the breath as it is.  When you consciously and deliberately breathe long or short, you are doing pranayama.  Pranayama is useful for some things, but it is not part of vipassana.

Paraphrased here:

When a clever turner or his apprentice works an object on his lathe, he attends to his task with fixed attention: in making a long turn or a short turn, he knows that he is making a long turn or a short turn. In the same manner if the practitioner of meditation breathes in a long breath he comprehends it as such; and if he breathes out a long breath, he comprehends it as such; if he breathes in a short breath, he comprehends it as such; and if he breathes out a short breath, he comprehends it as such. He exercises his awareness so as to see the beginning, the middle and the end of these two functions of breathing in and breathing out. He comprehends with wisdom the calming down of these two aspects of in-breathing and out-breathing.

soma

Re: Does someone understand sutta's "Just as a clever turner.." text?
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2010, 09:56:43 PM »
"Just as a clever turner or a turner's apprentice, turning long, understands: 'I turn long'; or turning short, understands: 'I turn short'

Before, I only answered that question: Am I breathing long? Yes, I am breathing long, then I continue breathing in and breathing out. But now, I can "feel" a new meaning of this text. The turner makes a long turn conciusness, he learnt that a long turn makes a better work and a short turn makes a better work that's why turner knows he is making that turn.

Like the turner, we mindfulness breathing long or short due to a specific reason: to calm body external and internal how we learnt it.

Well, I am so confused about that meaning, can you help me? I think this is a good step on my mindfulness practice.

May be, my english is not very good to explain myself about that question, I hope you understand me.

Regards,
I do not know what a turner is but the apprentice knows because he is being mindful of what he is doing, especially so since he is an apprentice (?).
To know that your breath is long or short just means that you are being mindful of your breath,you pay close attention to it without forcing it - if it is long, it is long and you know it. If it is short, it is short and you know it because you are mindful of your breath.
Do not manipulate your breath when doing vipassana - just watch it and notice how it is doing its thing on its own, thoughts coming and going on their own, moods and physical sensations constantly shifting all on their own without a 'you' doing anything.
Do not do anything – just watch.


idud

  • Member
Re: Does someone understand sutta's "Just as a clever turner.." text?
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2010, 01:24:52 PM »
I am still keeping my attention on the breathe without modifying it like you say. But after I read this text I was a little confused about that. Thanks!

 

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