Author Topic: Lonely on my practice: I have some questions  (Read 2782 times)

idud

  • Member
Lonely on my practice: I have some questions
« on: July 15, 2010, 09:15:04 AM »
Hi,
I am going to introduce myself properly.
Some months ago I discovered this spiritual path reading about meditation, krishnamurti, Eckhart Tolle, Buddhism, etc.. a lot of readings after I found Vipassana was the method I need.
I have been suffering one year anxiety, too much job leads me to have no desirable thoughts: about my wife, my life, can I kill myself?.. a lot of thoughts I just didn't want to have on my mind.
I read: Thoughts doesn't matter, they are like breath they are part of you. And then, I started to change my way of thinking.
Step by step I found I could view my thoughts on certain moments. I have noticed myself I was thinking. Good!
From May I have started to try to practice Meditation on the morning and before I am going to sleep all days no rest.
I don't know somebody who practice or to speak about it. Just me. That's what I need to speak to something who pass through this process and who tells me all is right or normal.
With practicing I have more tools to face my life, fears, thoughts, some weeks I am much better than another weeks. Generally, I am feeling much better.
I keep sitting on my cushions and I try to concentrate myself because I have noticed I need concentration to see more deeply on this thoughts or feelings. I am much better.
I am very motivated after I have had an anxiety attack while I was meditating, observing my heart, thoughts, senses, etc. And I was there while all that stuff was occurring to myself. Great!. Anxiety is part of me and I can watch it, nothing matters at all!
Some weeks I think is not good way, I think: What I am going to do in my life without desires, without reacting and seeking for pleasure? People who are around me still needing all of this..
Well, I hope to find people to talk about that because I need some support on my practicing, I need some meditation friends.

Does Vipassana change your life positively? How much time are you a practicer? Is this a way with curves, isn't it?

I hope you understand my english, be comprensive! :D

Regards!
Nacho

deebat

  • Guest
Re: Lonely on my practice: I have some questions
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2010, 06:25:59 PM »
Hello, Nacho,

Welcome to the forum. I, too, am new here, and I'm sure we will both find plenty of "meditation friends" as time passes.

I'm afraid I don't have much time to add to your wonderfully thought-provoking post at this time, but I want you to know that many of your thoughts are shared by at least one other person -- me! -- and I suspect quite a few others, as well. Meditation gives me the precious gift of time to see these thoughts with greater clarity and to not let them define me or have power over me. (Well, not too much power, that is.  ;))

I also wanted to let you know that I was thinking about part of what you wrote today as I was driving around town:

I think: What I am going to do in my life without desires, without reacting and seeking for pleasure? People who are around me still needing all of this..

Those people can be remarkable teachers. When I observe all the grasping and positioning that other people do, it helps me see how I, too, am always chasing some goal or possession of dubious value. And then, almost miraculously, I laugh and begin to make (yet another) effort to rid myself of all desires. Until I go down the desire path again two seconds later! And so goes the cycle... but without being able to witness others seeking their pleasures, I know it would be so much more difficult for me to be aware of my own grasping.

Thank you for your great post, and I look forward to hearing more from you soon!

With metta,
Dan

idud

  • Member
Re: Lonely on my practice: I have some questions
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2010, 08:54:14 PM »
Thanks Dan,

Confortable words, not only Me has these thoughts!. I was forgetting "there is fear" instead of "I have fear" .Fear exists, It isn't part of me. Thanks for remember me that.

Great! "Remarkable teachers"!. All the thing that happens are a part of our practice.

Regards,
PD: Viewing your Tradition, I just read "Four Nobles Truths" Ajahn Sumedho. Great reading. (I read it on spanish if not I pass you the link)

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Staff
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: Lonely on my practice: I have some questions
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2010, 05:25:13 PM »
Idud,

My apologies but time has been short for me recently and finding time to tend to this precious garden of Dhamma very difficult. For this reason I have not stepped in before to answer your questions.

Meditation practice will change you profoundly. It will do all the things you describe and you are not alone in any of this as deebat points out.

As your mind slows from it's habitual frenetic activity that is completely prevalent in modern society you will gain more and more insight (Vipassana). This is a FRUIT or "Phala" (Pali) of meditation (Sati) and there really is no such thing as "Vipassana meditation", but "Vipassana" or "insight" actually grows out of your meditation as you have discovered.

This developing insight becomes more and more "fine grained" in the sense that you start to see through the compound nature of the phenomena of body and mind. At the beginning you might have little insights as to a thought or process in your body. As you practice and perfect your meditation and your body and mind slows and develops concentration and calm the insight will grow deeper and deeper: No longer will there be little insights but progressively more microscopic ability to see the "fine grain" of the sand pile ... the thoughts behind the thoughts, the fears, desires or habitual assumptions (ignorance) behind those thoughts.

As you progress in this way the rest of the world seems to develop two characteristics you have touched on: i) it becomes something almost comic when you see people being driven forwards by forces they do not comprehend; ii) this is a TRAGIC comedy - because these people have the ability to rise above their conditioned state - they just have not been as lucky as you to meet the Dhamma, yet.

As you grow and develop  in the Dhamma you will naturally start to influence people around you, as you will change. "Systems theory" tells us that if you change one part of any system all the other parts will change as a result. This applies to all systems, living, mechanical, electronic, political, etc, etc.

This is why when you buy a second hand car, about three weeks or a month later usually, a few things will start to go wrong with  it. It's not because the person who sold you the car was lying about the condition - it's that the "system" of the car has changed - in this example it is the driver that has changed. You will accelerate differently to the previous owner, brake differently, drive around corners differently and etc .. YOU AND THE CAR are the system here. These changes in how the car is driven will  manifest as the brakes need replacing or the oil filter needs changing or the clutch finally breaks.

The same is true in the living systems of which you are a part: the groups of people you live, work and socialise with. As you change then you will start to influence change in other parts of these systems. Some of that change will go WITH you - people picking up on your calm, on your improved work performance or whatever - and following you s a living example. Some of that change will try and go AGAINST you - people may feel threatened if they have highly complex defence mechanisms as part of their psychology, they may resist your change, knowingly or unknowingly. They may try to stop you changing or even CHANGE YOU BACK to how you were if they feel highly disturbed. Otherwise it might take the form of people expressing dislike of the changes you manifest.

Does Vipassana change your life positively? That is up to you. Vipassana or insight, like any tool, can be used for good or bad. The key here is developing other aspects to balance and make sure you are using the fruit of insight for good: compassion, patience, tolerance, equanimity. If these core values become the bedrock of your daily living then meditation will positively change your life and that of those around you to a very great extent.

Once, before I was a Buddhist, I was in Thailand visiting a monastery. On paper plates there were little Buddhist slogans painted and stuck on the walls. One I read has remained with me ever since and is a guiding light for me in my life: it drives my meditation practice and my Dhamma activity. It sums up for me the whole point and purpose of being a meditator:

"BETTER IS A DAY IN THE LIFE OF ONE WHO PERCEIVES THE RISE AND FALL OF THINGS, THAN A LIFETIME OF ONE WHO IS NOT KNOWING"

Which answers your other question, "Is this a way with curves, isn't it?".

Yes .... the "rise and fall of things" is all about the fact that it is about curves, about waves, not about solid fixed things but things that are ever flowing, ever changing, ever manifesting differently.

Physics caught up with Buddhism through the work of Einstein and a few others but the Physicists minds are still blown apart by this, they don't really understand it - and are still trying to "fix it in stone", to come up with THE ONE equation that describes all.

Hence we blow billions on the "Large Hadron Collidor" whilst kids starve to death - the physicists are stuck in an old mindset. If they recognised the "rise and fall of things", instead of wasting money on big experiments that will give little to humankind or the planet, they would spend that energy on changing some little things that would make a big difference.

And as meditators that's what we are doing: we are concentrating on changing this little piece of the "system of the entire universe" that we mistakenly call "I, me, mine", reaching true understanding of the "rise and fall of things" - and in the process we change who we are, and change the world around us.

This is why Ghandi said "you must be the change you wish to see in the world". You want to live in a world of peace and justice? - Go do the homework: become the perfect embodiment of peace and justice. Vipassana and the other fruits of the contemplative life can take you there.

Warm regards, in the Dhamma,

Matthew
« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 05:29:24 PM by The Irreverent Buddhist »
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

idud

  • Member
Re: Lonely on my practice: I have some questions
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2010, 08:08:35 PM »
I think all my life I have been building my inside house, putting a lot of boxes on it. Boxes who doesn't allows me to move in freedom, always I take a step I find a box on the way, a box conditioning my behaviours. I ask myself: Are you doing something wrong, or something right? what is good and what is bad. I only know I have to sit and concentrate, that's the first real step.

I have certain doubts about me and my interaction with the world with these new experiences and knowledge. Now, I know I can't act due to a emotion or thought arises. Just I have to watch them. But, I feel so strange viewing others, viewing that TRAGIC COMEDY how you point out. I took the Matrix pill and I can't stop.

How I read few months ago, "once you know the true, you have to choose, forgetting or doing something, you can't return". All my life I have been looking for it. Knowing ourselves is where the magic resides.

It is wonderful to hear you. Do you take that pill too? You accepted it, great. I am in the way. I am trying to adjust to my new life. All concepts changes. Can I develop all this knowledge in my life, with my work, my friends, my work?
 
I look inside and I view this connection with others things, with nature. Yes, That knowledge still only in mind it is not part of me.But, I think it's true. I have faith. Mindfulnees lends me to deeply know it.

Something is equal in you and me and in that tree. I know if i can control my mind, letting go all that attachments I will have peace inside and peace around me, I need to be kind with people, I need to know it and teach it. Certainly, watching it can change the World.

Maybe I am in a mistake but Is it what you call Dharma?

Sorry, May be I am very hesitate to ask to share doubts, to know somebody in the way. With time, I will relax my speaking.

Thaaaaaaaaaanks!!!, with this forum I am feeling part of a community I am not lonely. I read some "masters" but I need something who believes them I am not completely fool!

Nacho(Spain)

FreedomOfMind

  • Guest
Re: Lonely on my practice: I have some questions
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2010, 10:24:37 PM »
The very root purpose of Dhamma is to free ourselves from all suffering.
I remember Buddha said something like this,

"Just like the salty ocean has only one taste which is the taste of saltiness
So does the purpose of Dhamma that has only one purpose which is the freedom from all suffering" – Buddha

In a small island that I had lived, I saw fishermen who took the boat and went to the sea and intent to catch the prawn with their net but they also got other kind of fish at the same time which is also worthy to them although what is more valuable to them is the prawn than the fish.

Now,
fishermen who took the boat is like us who takes the Dhamma
went to the sea and intent to catch the prawn is like us walk/practice the Dhamma and intent to be free from all suffering
they also got other kind of fish at the same time is like us who also got other benefits at the same time like have more ability to help others free from suffering, changing the world for the better and etc

So we have to put our intention on the main purpose, we will get the side benefits automatically, but if we put our intention on the side benefits we will not be able to achieve our main purpose.

Does Vipassana change your life positively?
These are the side benefits which I gained,
Increase of happiness, wisdom, confidence,
reduction of fear, disturbing thoughts, suffering
cure from depression

The non-doing of any evil, the performance of what’s skillful, the cleansing of one’s own mind: this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
~Dhammapada 183

that cleansing of one's own mind is the purpose of meditation

and why to clean our mind ?

When one’s mind is pure (clean), the joy will follow him just like the shadow that never leaves him.
When one’s mind is impure (unclean), the suffering will follow him just like the shadow that never leaves him – Buddha

Mind creates thoughts,
thoughts create action,
action creates result,
result creates destiny,
destiny shapes the mind back with more intensity,
a cycle loop.

Peaceful mind creates peaceful thoughts,
peaceful thoughts create peaceful action,
peaceful action creates peaceful result,
peaceful result creates peaceful destiny,
peaceful destiny creates more volume of peaceful mind,
the cycle loop back again with more intensity of peacefulness,
a peaceful cycle loop.

Distress mind creates distress thoughts,
distress thoughts create distress action,
distress action creates distress result,
distress result creates distress destiny,
distress destiny creates more volume of distress mind,
the cycle loop back again with more intensity of distress,
a distress cycle loop.

meditation increase peace, reduce distress, so another reason of meditation

Mind is the chief of all things, if it's improved (especially with meditation), every aspect of our life is improved.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 10:31:16 PM by FreedomOfMind »

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Staff
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: Lonely on my practice: I have some questions
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2010, 10:48:31 PM »
Nacho,

I took all the pills.

;)

Matthew

ps Just don't give yourself a hard time.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

idud

  • Member
Re: Lonely on my practice: I have some questions
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2010, 12:10:12 AM »
I have to read more than two times all your posts. Your wisdom is inside them. Thanks for being there.

I am not lonely, more people took that freedom pills ;D
People and things that happens are part of my practice.
I am going to do my homework, I will try to watch rise and fall of things. I start with my thoughts, It doesn't matters, finally, if I wait they will die.
Fisherman! great explanation! That is the Dhamma, make world around us be part of our achivements freeing ourselves of suffering.

I am going to look inside me before sleep.
That kind of help push me on the right way again.

Dan, Matthew, FreedomOfMind
Sincerely thanks.

Vivek

  • Moderator
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    • Advaita & U Ba Khin's tradition
Re: Lonely on my practice: I have some questions
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2010, 12:27:22 PM »
Quote
This is why when you buy a second hand car, about three weeks or a month later usually, a few things will start to go wrong with  it. It's not because the person who sold you the car was lying about the condition - it's that the "system" of the car has changed - in this example it is the driver that has changed. You will accelerate differently to the previous owner, brake differently, drive around corners differently and etc .. YOU AND THE CAR are the system here. These changes in how the car is driven will  manifest as the brakes need replacing or the oil filter needs changing or the clutch finally breaks.
That's a great example for explaining the point of components in a system affecting eachother. Thanks for sharing.
Let's go beyond this illusion, shall we?

 

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