Author Topic: let go trust and jump  (Read 3007 times)

Green Tara

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let go trust and jump
« on: November 23, 2007, 06:16:26 PM »
I know about the positive effect practising Vipassana had on my mind, general well being and my relationship with others. But could the meditation actually have an impact on external events in our life? can the practise turn your life upside down? I hear people saying when I started practising lots of issues came up to the surface and they had to deal with them. What do they mean by that? are the issues an emotions from the past, a destructive behaviour  they were unaware of, or it also means that the  life around you could change?
since I came back from the course my life as I have known it gone, disappeared. really ... like magic,  now you see it , now you don't. Everything changed  physically, emotionally, financially and politically and it is not good news.
The good news is the meditation is helping me to cope better than I thought I would. where I am now is a great opportunity to develop equanimity and I am using it fully.
so I am fine I just wondered could  meditation force you in to a corner so you have to let go trust and jump? does this make any sense.
 any thoughts anyone !  :-\
« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 12:25:58 PM by Green Tara »
"Samsaric beings! Cling not to worldly pleasures.  Enter the great city of liberation”

Flipasso

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Re: let go trust and jump
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2007, 09:32:00 PM »
I don't quite understand that trust let go and jump part. What do you mean?
But as far as your life changing on the outside, I believe that is possible.
IMO it can change due to (at least) two causes:
 1 - Your perception of the world changes there for your mental reality and your life change.
 2 - Your attitude changes and that may indead promote factual changes with people outside yourself and even in your job or other areas. For instance, imagine two twin-brothers. One is very shy and has very poor image of himself, the other one is very confident. They both look the same cause they're identical twins but one of them gets all the girls, guess who? This principle can be applied in various plains in your life, for instance your job. Imagine two identical twins that work just the same in terms of quality and quantity. One has a very poor self-image the other one is very confident and knows he does a very good job. One of them gets a promotion, guess who?
I believe this principle is comonly accepted by psychologists.
This can be very good to hear about but can also be pretty scary if one starts considering his responsibility towards his life conditions.
Hope this didn't have that second effect on you.
I believe that meditation is a good way to start using this your way since it changes both your perception and your attitude.

peace@you.all

Green Tara

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Re: let go trust and jump
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2007, 11:11:16 PM »
thank you Flipasso for answering I thought I wasn't making alot of sense. I meant to let go of the fear and the control over the situation, trust what is happening and jump into the unknown. I really need to understand this. say If I  am not a compassionate person and I start to meditate do I wake up one day and suddenly I have compassion or will life force me into situation where I have to learn to be compassionate.  another thing all the karma that is stored in my body through lifetimes  would this karma just leave peacefully or it would create havoc on its way out.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2007, 06:57:53 PM by Green Tara »
"Samsaric beings! Cling not to worldly pleasures.  Enter the great city of liberation”

Flipasso

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Re: let go trust and jump
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2007, 01:29:01 PM »
I don't know.
But I think it could happen a bit both ways. So you will probably have to learn how to be compassionate or you will gradually start becoming, or a bit of both, maybe I don't know. Same with the karma, I guess...
Good luck in evolution

peace@you.all

Green Tara

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Re: let go trust and jump
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2007, 02:18:58 PM »
Thank you Flipasso   . I guess I Analise too much. I learned on the course that when you sit and meditate and observe the sensations you become more aware in daily life and I can say that is absolutely true. but I have also learned that you would also release the karma that has been stored in your body during these sittings and I wasn't sure what that meant. How do you release the karma. I guess I got a bit confused because a friend of mine said that what I was going through is a result of releasing karma through the meditation.
"Samsaric beings! Cling not to worldly pleasures.  Enter the great city of liberation”

Paul

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Re: let go trust and jump
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2007, 02:40:07 PM »
Green Tara....I THINK that about the changes like becoming more compassionate, this will come about naturally as we start to see things differently, especially as we start to see through the illusion of separateness.  If you feel in any way that something is being forced on you by meditation, then I think it is more your mind that's doing the forcing. 

As for releasing karma it may mean the same thing as what the Tibetans call purifying the mind?  I think this is more an analogy for undoing our conditioning - facing and healing those mental/spiritual injuries that come out from time to time in meditation.  I think we all feel confused a lot, at least I know I do.  As there are no monks meditation masters around here I find the only thing to do is to go back to the breath (even in every day life off the cushion) and just let things be the way they are, and if the current situation is confusion then let that be too...and observe it...

I read a text somewhere which went a bit like this:

Zen master: "My Student, have you managed to decide today?"
Student: "No sir, I'm confused today".
Master: "Very good, you have made a perfect decision, I'm really pleased for you!"

I find that very comforting :o)

I hope this helps!

« Last Edit: November 28, 2007, 02:41:14 PM by Paul »

Matthew

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Re: let go trust and jump
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2007, 02:43:46 PM »
I know about the positive effect practising Vipassana had on my mind, general well being and my relationship with others. But could the meditation actually have an impact on external events in our life? can the practise turn your life upside down?

It can turn you upside down and you are the central component in your life and well being. You also impact on those around you with your way of manifesting in the world and this changes as one gets deeper into practice. Meditation changes you - and you changing changes the world.

I hear people saying when I started practising lots of issues came up to the surface and they had to deal with them. What do they mean by that? are the issues an emotions from the past, a destructive behaviour  they were unaware of, or it also means that the  life around you could change?

It can mean all these things. For many people painful experiences from their past that they have suppressed come back to their conscious recollection. Others become more aware of how they define the past influences their choices now. For others it changes the way they behave and manifest so deeply that events and people around them are strongly influenced.

since I came back from the course my life as I have known it gone, disappeared. really ... like magic,  now you see it , now you don't. Everything changed  physically, emotionally, financially and politically and it is not good news.
The good news is the meditation is helping me to cope better than I thought I would. where I am now is a great opportunity to develop equanimity and I am using it fully.
so I am fine I just wondered could  meditation force you in to a corner so you have to let go trust and jump? does this make any sense.
 any thoughts anyone !  :-\


Change can be hard. For those around you it can be hard and they can be reactive. Our world's are very transient in any case. Tomorrow any one of us could step under a bus and this life would be over. Wouldn't be all that mindful of us but hey it happens. All the things we are attached to would be gone.

The fact that everything is always changing and always leads to dissatisfaction eventually is very painful. Perhaps you became aware of this at some point during your meditations. Perhaps you have just been given a chance to let go of a lot easily.

Whatever the case do look after yourself and let yourself be emotional and feel the feelings around this stuff. Letting go of Karma in the context mentioned means undoing the conditioned and habitual responses stored in our body-mind just by seeing them in meditation - in Goenka's tradition with the body as the object of meditation which is very good for westerners.

Meditation is let go and jump. Meditation is the cessation of the processes of mind you call "you" such that eventually the mind is de-cluttered, and you experience the raw shock of being you.

:)

Matthew
« Last Edit: November 28, 2007, 02:50:20 PM by The Irreverent Buddhist »
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mettajoey

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Re: let go trust and jump
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2007, 03:58:47 PM »
Green Tara,
I've been following this thread closely and I don't have any wise answers for you since I am going through so many of the same things.  My life as I knew it is over.  My usual escapes have fallen for the facades they are.  My old habits don't fit who I am now.  Things both very good and very hard make up my daily life and I don't always really know where I fit.  I do know that I have been freed and am only now embracing who I really am and feeling those truths and realities, good and bad.  The path of Dhamma is now my becoming my faith and seems to take care of me if I let it and keep trying my best.  Redefining oneself at 46yrs is a significant challenge and my solace and maybe yours is that I'm sitting on a cushion next to you in spirit.
-Joe
The best type of meditation is the one that you'll do

Stefan

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Re: let go trust and jump
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2007, 10:54:15 PM »
dear tara

from a karmic point of view: when you are doing vipassana you get rid of lots of karmic layers, but that means of course that new karmic layers come to the surface, and therefore life changes. and then in religious terms: but god won't lay more weight onto your shoulders than you can carry! vipassana strenghtens your "muscles", your spiritual "shoulders" are much stronger now ... so you get the chance to work out even more karmic waste. It also happens to me, and sometimes it seems too hard, but if I deal with it in an equanimous way, the result turns out to be
... nice ...

Smiles & Metta, Stefan
« Last Edit: November 29, 2007, 09:20:29 AM by stefan »
anicca

Green Tara

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Re: let go trust and jump
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2007, 12:07:51 PM »
Thank you Guys,
I have reflected on what you all said. when I went on the course few months ago I really thought I would be liberated there and then. I had worked on myself so hard over the years and I thought the time has come to reap the rewards. (I know...very arrogant attitude, that shows how little I knew). I thought that, because I have no  attachment to material stuff ( my things would fit in two boxes) and also I am able to keep a cool mind when it comes to severe physical pain I thought that is it I got it. but since then  and reflecting on what you all said I had an awareness of my attachment to non material stuff. I like and dislike a lot of things, time of the day, feelings, my space, my thoughts and so on. and I am suffering a lot emotionally because of this attachment I find it very hard to keep an equanimous mind when someone invade my private space. so I guess you are right Mathew I have a chance to let go of a lot. thank you Paul for the dialogue between the Zen master and the student I loved it and I wrote down to remember that it is OK to be confused. thank you Silentflute I will remember next time I am in pain that you are spiritually sitting on the cushion next to me.
Stefan I will keep keep working on my spiritual muscles.
I don't know anyone who practise vipassana around me, I am so grateful for this Sangha. ;)

thank you all

« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 12:27:32 PM by Green Tara »
"Samsaric beings! Cling not to worldly pleasures.  Enter the great city of liberation”