Author Topic: Sex, Drugs, Rock n Roll and Vipassana  (Read 15048 times)

dhruv

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Sex, Drugs, Rock n Roll and Vipassana
« on: April 29, 2010, 01:06:17 PM »
Just having finished my first year of college I am in no way going to give up sex. How can I give up something I havn't tried (and tried enough times to get a little bored). But I have oversome my fixation with pornography and fantasizing about women. I break out of such thought patterns as quickly as I can.

Music is a big part of my life. I play guitar and i'm going to playing with some bands soon. The thing with music that I've noticed is that I always have songs running through my head. It happens alot. More often at retreats and when I try to meditate :p

As far as drugs go I've had my fare share. Much more than what would be considered fun and recreational. I plan to stay clean for a few months so I can build up my mental strength because I fear that a one time use now will trigger alot of craving. I love drugs honestly and I'm not going to give them up. I'm still going to eat psilocybin shrooms and LSD once in a while. I just have to control what type of drugs (using LSD for self exploration is different that popping painkillers in my books).

I wanted your views and advice on these issues and any general rants or raves. Any commentary is appreciated.

Metta

atomjack

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Re: Sex, Drugs, Rock n Roll and Vipassana
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2010, 03:53:15 PM »
Who said you had to give up sex? Sex can be very spiritual. It can be considered a form of meditation because for a brief moment, you are present and more beautifully, sharing that present moment with someone else. Unfortunately, it seems most of the sex people have is not spiritual, but an act of the ego that will only lead to empty attachment and unhappiness for you and others. So like with everything, be aware of your desires, attachments, your reasoning... ect. Awareness will lead you to appropriate decisions.

Music is also a big part of my life. There is nothing wrong with music playing in your head. I've written plenty of songs because of random melody's passing through my mind. When they happen during meditation, just notice them from a distance. Just as would with any other thought.

I feel that you would lose your desire for drug use if you felt more fulfilled with your life spiritually. Meditating will help you understand this. The reason most people use drugs is because they are not completely satisfied with their life and are trying to fill an emptiness with excitement and thrills. The more I noticed the progress of my meditation practice and the more peace I've felt within me, the more I noticed a natural lack of interest in harming myself with drug and alcohol use.

dhruv

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Re: Sex, Drugs, Rock n Roll and Vipassana
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2010, 04:26:55 PM »
I agree with you completely atomjack. As far as the drug and alcohol use goes, i've sobered up from being a complete junkie without forcing myself or having to eat candy when i feel like a smoke. A part of me still wants to explore psychedellics though :) but now when I do use it will be for a different reason. Maybe a time will come when i don't feel the need for them, or maybe not. But right now this is the truth for me.

Metta

unprevadedrapture

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Re: Sex, Drugs, Rock n Roll and Vipassana
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2010, 06:12:20 PM »

dhruv

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Re: Sex, Drugs, Rock n Roll and Vipassana
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2010, 07:37:49 PM »
will check them out, thanks!

Alex

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Re: Sex, Drugs, Rock n Roll and Vipassana
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2010, 07:31:06 AM »
Hi druv,

I’ve used my fair share of drugs while I was in college (within limits). It was great, just for fun and letting go, but also for self exploration. I had some intense religious/connected experiences when coming out of a trip. This experimental phase lasted maybe two years. After which the only thing I did was blowing. After a few years that was just habit and addiction. I stopped several times for a few weeks and then got sucked in again. After a retreat not so long ago, it just left me. I’m very grateful for that.

Aside from the blowing part, I wouldn’t do it any other way. I am thankful for a lot of experiences I had as a psychonaut.  ;) although we could debate forever about the reality of these experience and as to why anyone could actually need to use anything.

I’m not encouraging or validating here. Just sharing my experiences. You make your own choices.
Maybe my advice is: do it safe, know your limits and if you can: look at your intentions. Be honest with yourself. See how it affects your life.

As for your other things: music is a beautiful thing to have in your life. I don’t see the problem. When you play the guitar or listen to music you just play or listen. When you meditate, you sit and breathe and observe. Don’t engage.

As for sex, I agree with atomjack: it can be very spiritual. But I have also had a phase of fantasizing and porn. That too goes away along the path.
After a retreat I often had a similar reactions: like I needed to give up things in order to continue on the path. But that is thinking. As you go along, you grow and things happen naturally. Just be aware and don’t give yourself a hard time.

Alex


unprevadedrapture

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Re: Sex, Drugs, Rock n Roll and Vipassana
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2010, 09:22:19 AM »
Quote
it can be very spiritual.
there's nothing spiritual about the orgasm.

dhruv

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Re: Sex, Drugs, Rock n Roll and Vipassana
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2010, 11:43:19 AM »
unprevadedrapture, there might not be anything spiritual about dropping acid in the wrong or even right setting eithe. To each his own.

Warmly,
Dhruv

Lokuttara

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Re: Sex, Drugs, Rock n Roll and Vipassana
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2010, 03:53:05 PM »
I'm also in a progressive rock/metal band and I love to play all sorts of music and party. I don't see any problems once you keep practicing meditation seriously, and don't get caught up in harming yourself or others.

As for drugs and drink; don't try to give anything up. Keep observing yourself, and observe your relationship with these substances. Let the flowering brought on by meditation happen naturally, don't force it. You will find, in time, that you will come out of many habit patterns and you will continue to flower in dhamma. Just don't get caught up in the idea of being free of these things, let go of these ideas and find out the truth for yourself.

As for sex, you should read what Krishnamurti had to say about it. It's very interesting, and many meditators may end up creating more resistance, and using more energy in avoiding it than actually doing it. Most are not truly ready for celibacy and subconsciously there is a huge conflict, this is dangerous. When people reach a very advanced stage, it's not a problem anymore. You don't make a problem out of it. It doesn't matter if you do it or not at that stage, but most of us are not at that stage :) Observe yourself in sexual relations and you will find more awareness in this area.
"One may be surrounded by great beauty, by mountains and fields and rivers, but unless one is alive to it all one might just as well be dead." Krishnamurti

dhruv

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Re: Sex, Drugs, Rock n Roll and Vipassana
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2010, 04:55:03 PM »
I think the most important thing is to just be aware of whats happening and to stop when you start harming yourself. I don't plan to give anything up :)

unprevadedrapture

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Re: Sex, Drugs, Rock n Roll and Vipassana
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2010, 07:41:10 PM »
Quote
I don't plan to give anything up
then why are you on a meditation forum? without sacrifice, however small, there can be no result.
Quote
re might not be anything spiritual about dropping acid in the wrong or even right setting eithe. To each his own.
right use and control of the sexual energy is at the foundation of every spiritual path.
 http://sacred-sex.org/scriptures/
 

Morning Dew

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Re: Sex, Drugs, Rock n Roll and Vipassana
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2010, 09:37:58 AM »
Conditioned mind is like millions of puzzles flying in the air, and we not seeing the clear picture.

Do not ponder about if what you are doing is right or wrong, instead sit in Shamatha (which will lead into Vipassana any way) and practice whole body breathing awareness so the puzzles can find their place on their own accord enabling you to see the whole picture.
Do not try to sort that puzzle (even though your ego mind would like you to), it will only confuse you more.
Not-doing is the way to experiance the unknown.

Remain relaxed  :)

p.s. oh, yes, I almost forgott, I too did drugs, alcohol and normal nicotine. I stopped all that and gave my monthly nicotine money to 2 kids in Africa which need it more than my hurt ego-self. I still do the sex part (with my wife, and it is sacred).

Remain relaxed  :)

dhruv

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Re: Sex, Drugs, Rock n Roll and Vipassana
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2010, 04:01:41 PM »
Quote
I don't plan to give anything up
then why are you on a meditation forum? without sacrifice, however small, there can be no result.
Quote
re might not be anything spiritual about dropping acid in the wrong or even right setting eithe. To each his own.
right use and control of the sexual energy is at the foundation of every spiritual path.
 http://sacred-sex.org/scriptures/
 

Let me elucidate. What I mean is, right now I don't do as much as I used to. That's what feels right for me. I'm just not going to decide that I'm never going to have sex(just an example) and then vent my frustration molesting little children and being frustrated.

unprevadedrapture

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Re: Sex, Drugs, Rock n Roll and Vipassana
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2010, 08:29:55 PM »
this is a gradual battle that we take throughout the life. this might include understanding the spiritual power of the energy (ojas, viriya), demystification with lust for the human form (32 parts of the body, etc), strong willpower not to misuse sexual energy or gradual battle against addiction to orgasm, substitution and sublimation (with meditation that serves this purpose, right concentration, right action, etc.) ultimately eradication of sensual desire can only happen in higher stages of nibbana.

convivium

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Re: Sex, Drugs, Rock n Roll and Vipassana
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2010, 10:30:45 AM »
the path requires really big cojones. most don't really want it. thankfully as ajahn lee said, "big things are made up of small things."

soma

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Re: Sex, Drugs, Rock n Roll and Vipassana
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2010, 03:47:04 PM »
Since three weeks  I have been refraining from all sexual activity in order to transform sexual energy into spiritual energy and ironically this spiritual practice have had the effect that I have started to look at women as sexual objects again - and it has only been three weeks  :D
Now, what to do ? Willpower is very close to suppression which will lead do disaster in some way or the other.
Any tips on how to transform this strong urge to jump on any woman, other than some advanced yoga practice that will take years to master ?
Maybe loving-kindness meditation ?

Crystal Palace

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Re: Sex, Drugs, Rock n Roll and Vipassana
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2010, 04:03:38 PM »
Loving Kindness Meditation is a good option.

Warmly,
Crystal Palace
« Last Edit: May 03, 2010, 04:09:31 PM by Crystal Palace »
"Abstain from unwholesome actions,
Perform wholesome actions,
Purify your mind"

Buddha

Morning Dew

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Re: Sex, Drugs, Rock n Roll and Vipassana
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2010, 07:34:48 PM »
Quote
Willpower is very close to suppression which will lead do disaster in some way or the other.
Any tips on how to transform this strong urge to jump on any woman, other than some advanced yoga practice that will take years to master ?

Will power comes from our thoughtful mind "I can do this" kind of way  :)  Do not follow the thoughtful mind and understand that you are to let go of any sort of aversion or desire via simply observing it to death. Shower all that comes from the conditioned mind with awarenes.
Maybe you too weak today to do it, but even this weakness is to be observed by not observing it but rather going back to the all body breathing (Shamatha).

Do not look at your problem as something which will be achived in Time, instead just see it as it comes and go back to all body breathing awareness. It will subside. An emotion or a thought needs energy to last. Once you understand this, you will cut off the energy cord by returning back to breathing, again  and again, and again... it will subside.

Stop trying to follow your mind's games like "I must transform this sex power..." instead simply cut off the energy by simply seeing it and going back to all body breathing.


If you feel you failed, do not beat your self. It happens to us all, AND IT HAPPENS DAILY TO MOST OF US  :)  Fell like you part of a huge football team, except here we do not run to score but sit to understand our own mind by not TRYING to understand it. We are learning to let go and see all as it Is (good or bad).

You are on the right boat I feel just try not to move much and sit still not to turn it over  ;D ;)

All the best and remanin relaxed.  :)

convivium

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Re: Sex, Drugs, Rock n Roll and Vipassana
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2010, 10:13:47 PM »

“Life isn't about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself.” GBS

http://www.dlshq.org/teachings/brahmacharya.htm
http://www.dlshq.org/download/brahma_nopic.htm
Celebrating Celibacy
...
« Last Edit: May 03, 2010, 10:16:17 PM by convivium »


convivium

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Re: Sex, Drugs, Rock n Roll and Vipassana
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2010, 06:44:30 AM »
x
« Last Edit: May 04, 2010, 07:16:16 AM by convivium »

Morning Dew

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Re: Sex, Drugs, Rock n Roll and Vipassana
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2010, 07:17:32 AM »
Isn't wanting to be spiritual creating dualities, separation from the "normal" every day life?
I am spiritual you are not. Or you are spiritual I am not.
Spiritual energies vs. Sex energies and so on  :)

There can not be peace if we are creating two sides of the river and willing always to go to the other side, and the ones on the oposite would like to get to our side. The grass is always greener on the other side they say  :D

River is the momentum I feel and one could simply let go and go with the flow, with all life circumstances, understanding one's loneliness, one's wanting, one's desires, one's aversions ...

Look at all the self layers you are made of  :) know your self, sit with your self and try not to wnat to achive anything. Spend as less time hucked up on your thoughts by sitting in Shamatha and then bring Shamatha in your life too.

It will all subside on it's own. I was attracted to porn sites and recently the need subsided. Remain relaxed  :)

convivium

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Re: Sex, Drugs, Rock n Roll and Vipassana
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2010, 07:31:40 AM »
Quote
do or do not there is no try.
there are only strategies... the desire for a mental object=unskillful,
but right effort for discernment, for wholesome states,
that's skillful. there are dualities. samsara and nibbana are "dualities".
just because we let go, doesn't mean for example, nibbana will cause itself;
it doesn't mean we will completely abate potentials, but that's the foundation,
which will at least take one to the gates.

some good discussion on this site...
http://newbuddhist.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5753
« Last Edit: May 04, 2010, 07:59:08 AM by convivium »

Matthew

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Re: Sex, Drugs, Rock n Roll and Vipassana
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2010, 08:23:00 AM »
Since three weeks  I have been refraining from all sexual activity in order to transform sexual energy into spiritual energy and ironically this spiritual practice have had the effect that I have started to look at women as sexual objects again - and it has only been three weeks  :D
Now, what to do ? Willpower is very close to suppression which will lead do disaster in some way or the other.
Any tips on how to transform this strong urge to jump on any woman, other than some advanced yoga practice that will take years to master ?
Maybe loving-kindness meditation ?

Awareness applied to this phenomena will dissolve it's power.

In the Dhamma,

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Slider

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Re: Sex, Drugs, Rock n Roll and Vipassana
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2010, 04:01:53 PM »
On a closer examination, I have concluded that it is suggested that sexual urges and tendencies are things that we should rid ourselves of. And why not? After all, celibacy is one of the precepts to be followed. To do this, we are to be aware of the moment, the sensations and the thoughts when experiencing such urges and practice shamatha/other meditation when not (or whenever we are supposed to). Perfectly understood! But the problem, as I see it, is not that. When in the grips of lust, one has to supposedly overcome the desire while desiring it, which is, sadly, easier said than done. What is even more tragic is that one does not want to be aware when such cravings, especially lust, arise. Dhruv, himself in his first post under this topic says "Just having finished my first year of college I am in no way going to give up sex" which is a testimony to the fact. Therefore, shouldn't, in such cases, will and strong determination come into the picture? And what should the determination be about- that "I will not succumb to this desire" or "I will make all efforts to be aware" ? As sila must not be taken to an extreme (probably to prevent the creation of new sankharas of aversion), what exactly is the threshold frequency? And so, is sex bad for meditation and should it be avoided or should a person enforce more discipline but enjoy its pleasures once in a while?
Also, no matter how hard I try, I am unable to find a link between sex and spirituality and would like to know more as to how people do that.

P.S. Not many feminists in here, are there?  ;)