Author Topic: Religion is The Great Hijacker of Spirituality  (Read 2726 times)

sublime

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Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
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Re: Religion is The Great Hijacker of Spirituality
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2010, 08:28:40 AM »
Good stuff. Buddhism as it emerges into the West is different to these religions: that is why some Asian teachers are saying the East will soon have to turn to the West for it's understanding of Dhamma.

Warmly,

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Jhananda

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Re: Religion is The Great Hijacker of Spirituality
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2010, 07:30:51 PM »
Good stuff. Buddhism as it emerges into the West is different to these religions: that is why some Asian teachers are saying the East will soon have to turn to the West for it's understanding of Dhamma.

Warmly,

Matthew
Thank-you sublime, I enjoyed the video quite a bit.  My experience of Buddhism was quite similar to the voice in the video, such that the video author clearly had a better idea of what insight (vipassana) is than any Buddhist priest or teacher I have heard speak in my 37 years of Buddhism.

Matthew's reflection was a bit confusing to me.  I would agree that one day the eastern religions may very well turn to western teachers to understand their own religion, because their priesthood is just as corrupt as our own.  So, I would say that Buddhism, as it has emerged in the West, is NO different than these corrupt religions.  However, it might gain some maturity one day, when it realizes how corrupt the institutions of Buddhism are, and begins to seek and support truly enlightened teachers wherever they might be, but they are NOT likely to come from any institutionalized religion.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2010, 06:27:09 AM by The Irreverent Buddhist »

Morning Dew

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Re: Religion is The Great Hijacker of Spirituality
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2010, 08:45:07 PM »
I didn't know Buddhism was corupted but than again we are humans and it is easy to hide behind a robe, any colored robe, ritual, idea, ... egotic scheme.

The one good thing Lakota Indians have is the Sacred Clown called Heyoka. It was his job not to allow people to become rigid in their believes by making asses out of them in a satiric way  ;D  Once spoken out loud it is not a taboo any more, or people get too serious about their spirituality, their maker, etc ...

From Wikipedia;
Quote
[edit] Social role
The Heyókȟa symbolize and portray many aspects of the sacred, the Wakȟáŋ. Their satire presents important questions by fooling around. They ask difficult questions, and say things others are too afraid to say. By reading between the lines, the audience is able to think about things not usually thought about, or to look at things in a different way.

Principally, the Heyókȟa functions both as a mirror and a teacher, using extreme behaviors to mirror others, thereby forcing them to examine their own doubts, fears, hatreds, and weaknesses. Heyókȟas also have the power to heal emotional pain; such power comes from the experience of shame--they sing of shameful events in their lives, beg for food, and live as clowns. They provoke laughter in distressing situations of despair and provoke fear and chaos when people feel complacent and overly secure, to keep them from taking themselves too seriously or believing they are more powerful than they are.

In addition, sacred clowns serve an important role in shaping tribal codes. Heyókȟa's don’t seem to care about taboos, rules, regulations, social norms, or boundaries. Paradoxically, however, it is by violating these norms and taboos that they help to define the accepted boundaries, rules, and societal guidelines for ethical and moral behavior. This is because they are the only ones who can ask "Why?" about sensitive topics and employ satire to question the specialists and carriers of sacred knowledge or those in positions of power and authority. In doing so, they demonstrate concretely the theories of balance and imbalance. Their role is to penetrate deception, turn over rocks, and create a deeper awareness.
:)

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
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  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
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Re: Religion is The Great Hijacker of Spirituality
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2010, 06:26:41 AM »
Good stuff. Buddhism as it emerges into the West is different to these religions: that is why some Asian teachers are saying the East will soon have to turn to the West for it's understanding of Dhamma.

Warmly,

Matthew
Thank-you sublime, I enjoyed the video quite a bit.  My experience of Buddhism was quite similar to the voice in the video, such that the video author clearly had a better idea of what insight (vipassana) is than any Buddhist priest or teacher I have heard speak in my 37 years of Buddhism.

Matthew's reflection was a bit confusing to me.  I would agree that one day the eastern religions may very well turn to western teachers to understand their own religion, because their priesthood is just as corrupt as our own.  So, I would say that Buddhism, as it has emerged in the West, is NO different than these corrupt religions. ....

Jhananda,

Fundamentally different:

In the West Buddhism is a movement of practitioners. The distinction between the lay life and monasticism is not so important. Most Buddhists are meditators. There are many people experiencing change through practice. This can not be said of Buddhism in the East.

It's a bit of a monkeys and typewriters affair in essence .. enough people try and some of them will get stuff right and pass it on.

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Jhananda

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Re: Religion is The Great Hijacker of Spirituality
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2010, 04:16:04 PM »
Fundamentally different:

In the West Buddhism is a movement of practitioners. The distinction between the lay life and monasticism is not so important. Most Buddhists are meditators. There are many people experiencing change through practice. This can not be said of Buddhism in the East.

It's a bit of a monkeys and typewriters affair in essence .. enough people try and some of them will get stuff right and pass it on.

Matthew
Yes, Matthew, I agree, western Buddhists tend to be contemplatives.  However, when I found myself marginalized by western Buddhists when I began to express my insights and attainments, and I found few western Buddhists with any insight or attainment at all, then I had to accept that most western Buddhists were just playing mind-games when they thought they were meditating.

Morning Dew:
I am an anthropologist, and my field of study was Native American life ways.  While my study of shamanism and mysticism around the world has revealed that mystics arise in every culture; nonetheless, most shaman are just pretentious priests in the same way most priests of most religions are just pretentious priests.  And, pretentiousness is inconsistent with being a mystic.

Best regards, Jhananda

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Staff
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: Religion is The Great Hijacker of Spirituality
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2010, 08:47:26 AM »
Couldn't agree more Jhananda, however, the monkeys and typewriters part of the equation has value.  Most may be playing mind games .. some are not.

Warmly,

matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

 

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