help losing my drive :(

[dragonbate]

Hello all! Most of the posts I read here have to do with techniques so forgive me if I am off topic since this is my first post.
I started meditating 1 year ago, I gradually cut off meat and became a vegetarian and also attended a 10 day meditation course. The results were amazing as expected, I felt revived, enhanced clarity of mind and more in harmony with myself and others. I felt I was where I was supposed to be and I had a long way to go but it didn't scare me I was looking forward to it.
So, as I was going back to my country, I was determined to continue with the Vipassana and my new life only to encounter the following problems: I have thoroughly searched for another Vipassana practitioner that lives close so that we can meditate together and there is no one. I searched online and wasn't able to find a single person from my country that was into this!

I live in a country that the church is very powerful and very few people open their mind to other ways of life and perception. I am Greek, I live in Greece and all the people I know are Greek Orthodox who see my Buddhist inclination as an eccentricity and react to my not wanting to eat meat with discomfort and dismay... the ones that have a positive reaction usually ask me if I eat fish. I live in the center of Athens where it never gets quiet not even in 3 in the morning and that gives me trouble when I try to focus. Furthermore my fiancee who has just moved in with me doesn't want to eat veggies for more than 3 days in a row so I'm back to eating meat again

Now I stopped meditating and everyone is happy again and they behave like I am back from the dead.. the truth is I never felt more lonely like I feel now, I feel like I had found my path and then got lost and I have only myself to blame because the others are just being themselves it is I who chose to quit.. but I find it so difficult... to have a job, live in stress to meet deadlines, living with a family who doesn't understand and is trying to preach me about how I put my health at risk by not eating meet.. the noise, the being alone in this because every time I talk about it my friends stare like I'm from Mars and want to change the subject... Is it so hard for everyone? or is it me? has anyone had to deal with something similar? what did/would you do?

Metta to all and thanks for reading 

[frepi]

Wow...Talk about peer pressure.
Do you wish to abandon Christhianity for Buuddhism or practice Vippasana?
There is no need to change religion to meditate, no need to become a vegan. I eat meat, I am not a big fan of it, but this my taste.
For me, meditation is like jogging, it is not a religious practice. I do it for its effect on my life.

I suggest you first do a self examination: Do you really want to become a buddist? As I said, this has nothing to do with meditation practice. Buddhism is trendy today and some people turn to it to be "in". Inform you about what it really means. Read books about it and do not rush this decision. Then if you still want to become a buddhist, change you habbits slowly, don't do it in a short period.  Second, keep on meditating, but don't talk about it except to the people who are very close to you like you (like you fiancee which obviously will know eventually). Do it as taking a medication, do not rely on "drive". For the noise, I use disposable earplugs. Not everybody likes them but I do. The do a great job of cutting noise. The ones I use are made of a special foam that takes back its shape slowly after being squeezed.

http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/earplugstore_2036_85638842

I use the pink ones on this picture.


Family pressure can be destructive, I know what you mean. The need to fit in and to please to our parents is deeply rooted. This is why I suggest that you remain as quiet as possible about your practice. Your parents do not need to know everything about your life, especially if you are now living outside their house. Eat the meals they offer you and stick to vegan when you are home. Don't expect to change the world around you. It will not change. Works on yourself instead, gently.

Good luck

[pimpoum]

Just a thought: sometimes family put pressure on their members just because they are worried. you could try to reassure them by showing how a meditation practice does not require that you relinquish the values with which you grew, find some study on the internet about vegetarian diet and show how you can compensate the input of meat by other sources. You grilfriend can have some meat while you're having a soya steak etc...As long as they see that you are not in some kind of weird cult or something like that they should feel better and live you alone.Perhaps (PERHAPS)  you have been a bit too "in your face" with them about the changes in your way of life. People can feel attacked if you assert your differences too strongly.

(As for the noise, my flatmate is a all-out drum and bass/hiphop fan with big boomers and scratch tables and the earplugs just do the trick - you can also try some soundproof earphone with some white noise (try the software soundmasker))

[Flipasso]

I would keep at it...
You can show them that there's nothing unCristhian about Vipassana, and that there's nothing unCristhian about Vegetarianism...
There are even some schools of Christianity that practice Vegetarianism...
And, except for the food, you can be quiet about your practice...
I know what it's like to be asked stupid questions about vegetarianism and having my whole family (my father has 8brothers and sisters and they're all maried) tell me it's stupid.

I just think that if you love meditation that much you should keep at it...
There's also the practice of meditation in Christian Ortodox church, isn't there.. maybe you could give it a try...

[alex]

Ah, young rebel, there is too much you want ...

So you want to be a Buddhist. Why?

The Dalai Lama does not want that Christians convert to Buddhism. He says that the religous imprint in early childhood is so strong, that an adult can barely achieve the same level of faith in a new religion.

I am not a Christian (anymore), but few know it. On Easter and Christmas I go to church, so that my family is not affronted. It doesn't hurt me.

When I'm in a dangerous situation, I think spontaneously "God, help" - and not "Buddha help".
When I have sex and orgasm is very strong, I cry "Oh my God" - and not "Oh my Buddha".
So Christianism is still very strong in me. What about you?


And you want to be a vegetarian. Why?

Buddha himself was eating meat. Lots of it. Buddhists monks must eat meat if it was given to them (*). A Spanish meditation teacher told me that eating meat can be useful to ground people (which went too high with meditation), he himself does it.

In short: If being a veggie offends the people around you, don't be it. Harmony is more important than ego.

[(*) exception: when the monk has to suspect that the animal was slaughtered only for him.]


And you want to meditate. Yes!

This I fully understand. Christians have meditations, too - I've tried them (I've been to Mount Athos). But Vipassana is better, powerful, much more is happening. I believe there is no substitute for Vipassana. But you have to know for yourself.


It is nearly impossible to change the people around you. If you change yourself, they will reject your changes. If you change too many things at once, you will have to defend them all, fight too many battles, and you will finally lose. So choose the things that are really important to you - and try not to be too offensive with it.

[Matthew]

Kali Mera and welcome Dragonbate. There are other Greek meditators. I think you might find Shambhala people around Athens area. All the advices above are good.

Meditation is something you found worked and you have dropped it for peer pressure but peer pressure is exactly one of the things meditation makes us immune to (which is why sometimes people really react strongly like this).

Keep meditating in secret if you must, or try and explain that all you are doing is what Socrates did - thinking and examining life a lot - I expect most Greeks would look at it a different way then ! And if they mention hemlock ... tell them we have moved a long way in these thousands of years ....

One of the Buddha's terms for enlightenment was "beyond conditioned existence" and mostly this refers to conditioning and indoctrination in childhood. You started that path and now everyone is unsettled because they have not challenged their own conditioning and they are reacting from programmed ideas of society - not even their own thoughts - and even worse - they do not know this - they do not know they are spouting things they learned and believe but HAVE NO BASIS IN TRUTH !!! Just ideas, peer pressure and pain for you.

Well .. don't accept it. Your life is yours it does not belong to your girlfriend or anyone else. Full stop, end of story. Take it back my friend before you hate yourself for not doing so.

In the Dhamma, and again welcome. There is no such thing as asking the wrong question here,

Matthew

[Matthew]

Buddha himself was eating meat. Lots of it. Buddhists monks must eat meat if it was given to them (*). A Spanish meditation teacher told me that eating meat can be useful to ground people (which went too high with meditation), he himself does it.

In short: If being a veggie offends the people around you, don't be it. Harmony is more important than ego.

[(*) exception: when the monk has to suspect that the animal was slaughtered only for him.]

This is not accurate. Buddha did not eat lots of meat and also monks were not supposed to eat a dish if they "knew or suspected" it had meat in it. Buddha dies from eating a poisoned meat dish he accepted but refused to let any other monk eat.

Matthew

[Matthew]

 GREECE

Athens Shambhala Meditation Group
c/o Martha Souli
Athens, 16451 Greece
Tel: 01 9925 866
Email: jaem@mbn.gr
Web site: www.shambhala.gr
Tradition: Tibetan, Kagyu
Spiritual Director: Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche

Buddhaland Buddhist Centre
Thisseos 12-14, Syntagma
Athens, Attica 10562 Greece
Contact: K.Kapetanopoulos
Tel: (0030) 6938333554
Email: buddhalc@hol.gr
Web site: www.buddhism.gr
Tradition: Tibetan, New Kadampa Tradition
Affiliation: International Kadampa Buddhist Union
Spiritual Director: Ven. Geshe Kelsang Gyatso
Teacher: Kadam Konstantinos Kapetanopoulos

Buddhist Center Athens
5A, Solomou str., Exarheia
GR-10683 Athens
Tel/Fax: (210) 3301120
Email: Athens@diamondway-center.org
Web site: www.diamondway-buddhism.gr
Tradition: Tibetan, Karma Kagyu, Diamond Way
Spiritual Director: the 17th Karmapa Thaye Dorje
Director: Lama Ole Nydahl

Buddhist Retreat Berchen Ling
For details please contact via email:
Email: BerchenLing@diamondway-center.org
Tradition: Tibetan, Karma Kagyu, Diamond Way
Spiritual Director: the 17th Karmapa Thaye Dorje
Director: Lama Ole Nydahl

Gonpo Chakduk Ling Study Group
Theotokopoulou 68 Byron, Athens
Tel: (1) 766 2035
Email: angepemo@msn.com
Tradition: Tibetan, Gelugpa (FPMT)
Spritual Director: Lama Thubten Zopa Rinpoche
Coordinator: Angeliki Petropoulou

Karma Dorje Gyurme Ling
c/o Dimos Kyutsoukis
Galatista, Chalkidiki 63073 Greece
Tel: (0) 9464 79691
Email: k_d_g_l@hotmail.com
Tradition: Tibetan, Karma Kagyu
Affiliation: Karma Rik Drol Ling

Karma Kagyu Group Thessalonika
Email: dharmagroup@email.com
Web site: www.geocities.com/dharmagroup
Founder: 17th Gyalwa Karmapa, Trinley Thaye Dorje
Tradition: Tibetan, Karma Kagyu, Dhagpo (Ktt)

Karma RigDrol Ling
P.O. Box 8 Arnea, Halkidiki 63074
Contact: Lama Stamatis
Email: yesherap@hotmail.com
Tradition: Tibetan, Kagyu, Karma Kamtsang
Affiliation: Dhagpo Mandala, France
Spiritual Director: Ven. Lama Gendün Rinpoche
and H.H. 17 Karmapa Thaye Dorje
Teacher: Lama Stamatis

Palyul Dharma Center
c/o Stathis Likopoulis
15 Irodotou Street, Kolonaki 10674 Athens, Greece
Tel: 172 10168
Web site: www.palyul.org
Founder: Ven. Penor Rinpoche
Tradition: Tibetan, Nyingmapa, Palyul Lineage

Tharpaling Buddhist Centre
Alepou, Kerkira 49100 Greece
Contact: Kelsang Khandro
Tel/Fax: 26610 21628
Email: tharpali@otenet.gr
Web site: www.meditationincorfu.org
Tradition: Tibetan, New Kadampa Tradition
Spiritual Director: Ven. Geshe Kelsang Gyatso
Teacher: Kelsang Khandro

Taos Meditation Center
Naoussa, Paros, Greece
Tel: ++30-22840-28882
Email: taoszen@hol.gr
Web site: www.taos-greece.com
Tradition: Soto Zen
Spiritual Director: Zen master Nissim Amon

Zen Buddhist Order of HsuYun (Website)
Location: Corinthia, Greece
Contact: Rev. Fa Lian Shakya
Email: fls@hsuyun.org
Web site: www.xuyun.org/Greek/Dharma/Home/home-index-greek.html
Tradition: Mahayana

Zen Centre
Vouliagmeni, Loutraki
Corinthia, 20300 Greece
Tel: 2741091181
Email: maurer@otenet.gr
Web site: www.xuyun.org/Greek/Dharma/Home/
Tradition: Zen Order of Master Xsu Yun
Contact: Fa Lian


Crete

Goenka Vipassana Group</b>
Contact: Kostas Lempidakis
Somatas Rethiminis 74100 Krete
Tel: (0831) 41483
(This is a contact for S.N. Goenka Vipassana meditation retreats in Crete)

[alex]

Buddha did not eat lots of meat and also monks were not supposed to eat a dish if they "knew or suspected" it had meat in it. Buddha dies from eating a poisoned meat dish he accepted but refused to let any other monk eat.

Maybe. Buddhist scriptures seem to contradict themselves regarding the monks. But most seem to agree that Buddha himself was eating meat. So I suppose the act of eating meat alone is not very unethical.

As I myself live in a meat-dominated country, my advice is to eat little meat, if you can. I offended people here by refusing to eat their food. Sometimes I was even considered to be arrogant, thinking of myself as something better. Well, maybe I was. Hopyfully you don't have to go through the same.

[Flipasso]

BTW - There are also those vegetarians that eat meat and fish socially...
I always thought that was stupid until I tried vegetarianism for myself and had everyone inquisiting me for my habits...

[dragonbate]

At first thank you all for your responses!
To be frank I don't know if I want to become a Buddhist, I don't want to belong to any specific spiritual group (or at least not yet) I constantly want to try new things until I find something interesting enough or something that helps me to become better, this is why I became enthusiastic with the Vipassana because I love the way my mind works after I have practiced it and the harmony I feel inside.
Regarding the meat I have read that the Theravada Buddhists are open to eating it while the Mahayana do not so I don't feel obliged to become a vegetarian, it just feels right for me to avoid the meat and I don't feel good meditating after having eaten it. However I realize now that by compromising and eating some meat on social occasions I will make my life easier and save me the grief of having to give explanations or have people think I'm being snobbish.

I agree with those of you who say I should have kept my new habits and ideas more to myself.
I know now that even though people seem to communicate because they speak the same language, they really don't if they are in different wavelength and end up understanding different things. It never occurred to me that while I talked to others about the Vipassana with the sole purpose of sharing my good experience with the people in my life, the people in question thought I was showing off and since I chose to do something they don't then I must disapprove of their lifestyle and them.
I feel a lot better now and I will go back to meditating! To tell you the truth one more reason that made me quit was because I started feeling like Neo in the Matrix after choosing and swallowing the red pill, it made it difficult for me to function in my work and other social activities because they no longer mattered to me, all I wanted to do is be surrounded by nature, only nature sounds and meditate most of the day.

To the Irreverent Buddhist: thank you SO much for the post you made with all the Buddhist centers, I will look into them!

Love to all

P.S. I'm a girl, I don't know why people think I'm a guy I think it's my nickname (I HOPE it's my nickname lol)

[greenhorn]

As I myself live in a meat-dominated country, my advice is to eat little meat, if you can. 

Just an anecdote, since you brought up the meat-dominated country. I visited my sister in Spain in October, and went to a restaurant in a village once. Of course the menu did not have anything vegetarian on it, so I asked for french fries with eggs. Guess what they brought me? Four or five pieces of french fries, 2 eggs and 4 slices of ham.

And yes, generally people do look weird at you if you're a vegetarian, and it may lead to a lot of serious conflicts with relatives, friends etc. People simply don't understand that eating meat is not health-wise justified (if you eat diverse vegetables, whole foods you get all the proteins and vitamins you need; I'm doing an Ayurvedic nutrition course, and they stress this repeatedly). My point is, though, that we should just try tobe diplomatic about it, understand their opinions, and keep going on the path we chose for ourselves.

[Flipasso]

No it's not your nickname, it's just that you have a manly tone in your writings!!! 

Just kidding it's probably your nickname!!
Glad you're back on track, on the road out of samsara!! 

[Matthew]

To be frank I don't know if I want to become a Buddhist, I don't want to belong to any specific spiritual group (or at least not yet) I constantly want to try new things until I find something interesting enough or something that helps me to become better, this is why I became enthusiastic with the Vipassana because I love the way my mind works after I have practiced it and the harmony I feel inside

....

To the Irreverent Buddhist: thank you SO much for the post you made with all the Buddhist centers, I will look into them!

Dear Girl,     

You're welcome.

I have met some of the Shambhala people from Athens before and they are good people. Search the forums for Shambhala and read what I have to say about deep engagement with the Sangha. I lived in a Shambhala land centre in France for a year and a half. Not all is good at the top level of the Sangha (it's huge > 20,000 worldwide).

However ... for regular sitting practice and for basic Shamatha Vipassana instruction (the only meditation you need) - and to have spiritual friends on the ground - I would thoroughly recommend you get in touch and go and see for yourself how it is for you.

I understand you don't want to join a group and if you read what I have had to say about Shambhala you will see I am not propsing you join the club, but they are good people to do basic sitting with and having people to sit with, if only once a week, can be a powerful aid on the path.

You can be plain with Shambhala people that you do not want to get too much in to the religious side but want to learn meditation and it will be respected and free of charge. And they are good people.

In the Dhamma,

Matthew

[Matthew]

The truth is out there, it's up to you to pick it up.

Hmm .. maybe the truth is "in there" and you "have to let go of it" lol

[Flipasso]

The truth is out there, it's up to you to pick it up.

Hmm .. maybe the truth is "in there" and you "have to let go of it" lol

I think one should let go of the illusiion in order to see the truth!!

[Matthew]

The @truth@ is a concept.

Reality is non conceptual.

[mettajoey]

Reality is non conceptual.

You just did!   

[mettajoey]

"That Door is Not for You"


During the Q&A at the Chicago Zen Center last Sunday, Sevan asked what I said to people who were considering leaving training. That brought this old Katagiri story to mind and it occurs to me that some blog readers might find it helpful (in a frustrating sort of way) as well....

A monk who had once been an enthusiastic practitioner had lost his way. He was escaping over the wall of the monastery every night, going to the bar and drinking. Next morning he'd wake up at 4:00 a.m. and bob sleepily through zazen and then drag himself resentfully through the day.

Finally, the teacher invited the monk into his six-feet-by-six-feet meeting room and said to him, “Every night you get drunk. Your sitting, chanting, and working have no energy. This is not Zen. If you are not going to train, GET OUT!”

The monk was furious. “Fine! I’ll leave.”

Just as the monk approached the sliding paper-screen door behind him, the teacher shouted, “That door is not for you!”

The monk went to the door to the right. Again the teacher screamed, “That door is not for you!”

The monk went to the door to his left and again the teacher screamed, “That door is not for you.”

Then the monk exploded, “You told me to get out but then you say ‘That door is not for you.’ What should I do?”

Calmly, the master replied, “If you cannot get out, please sit down.”

The monk went on to become the teacher’s successor.

....One thing that strikes me from this story is that the monk was put in a situation where he had to either not follow the teachers direction to leave or not follow his direction not to go through each door. Given this double bind, his true colors appeared by the direction he chose not to follow.

It is surprisingly difficult for most people to really get out of Zen. Once the Way Heart begins to open, nothing can hold it back. Therefore, Katagiri Roshi once said, "Don't stick your nose into Zen Buddhism. If you do, you might not be able to pull it out."

http://wildfoxzen.blogspot.com/2009/01/that-door-is-not-for-you.html

[frepi]

That double if not triple negation is confusing me.... 

[frepi]

For Dragonbate:
http://www.soyouwanna.com/site/syws/buddhism/buddhismfull.html

[bryony]

Hi dragon bate..

I completely understand what u have been going through.  I came back from my 10 vipassana course and immediately stoped eating meat and drinking alcahol.  Not to mention not smoking splifs and have been ridiculed by all my friends.  I was able to laugh with them, this being the only possible thing to do, but it has been really hard.  The non drinking the hardest.  I had said to my mates that I was only stopping until the end of Jan but I think I will continue till the end of Feb.... More ridiculing in the near future but what the heck.. I feel good, clearer, not depressed and full of plans and laughter... Cant be all bad...  and I notice that others notice... I just hope and pray it lasts...

keep it up, Bryony

[bryony]

By the way I also eat meat socially.  Its just so much easier, especially as I am already different as Ive stopped  drinking.  I even cook meat when friends come over, which makes my son very happy, and eat a bit...

You are not alone.. Do meditate when and where u can, and dont leave it too long before u start again as it may be difficult to get back into it.. Not that I know very much as I am a newb.. Be happy.. Bryony

[Hazmatac]

If think that if meditation makes you happy, you should do it, even if other people don't approve of it.