Author Topic: Healing Schizophrenia with Meditation  (Read 29955 times)

Hazmatac

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Healing Schizophrenia with Meditation
« on: January 21, 2009, 11:11:10 PM »
I found a girl who cured herself of schizophrenia using only meditation. Check it out here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PvgxA48m7Y

greenhorn

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Re: Healing Schizophrenia with Meditation
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2009, 03:46:21 AM »
 Wow, that is truly amazing. Unfortunately, there are stages of schizophrenia. I have a cousin who's been diagnosed schizophrenic for more than 10 years, but he doesn't admit he's ill (at least not publicly; I think deep down he knows something is wrong). My aunt has to stealthily put medication in his soda. He can be really violent at times. Because of him, all the family's life has been a nightmare. You also have to have an open mind to start meditating. He was actually told by his first doctor when the disease just started to manifest to start observing his breath, and he just got out of the office angrily. As much as I hate drugs, I honestly don't think my aunt could cope with him without them.

If you happen to be able to give some advice in this respect, I woulk kindly appreciate it. I really wish I could do something for my cousin and his family.

Thank you,Hazmatac!

Hazmatac

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Re: Healing Schizophrenia with Meditation
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2009, 08:13:57 AM »
Dear Greenhorn,

If I were to make a suggestion I would just suggest what I'm doing and what the girl in the video did: stop taking the meds because they cause brain damage, and do meditation. The lady in the video talks about her recovery process and has suggestions in other videos. Her name on youtube is SFJane. Good luck with your cousin.

Rob

Flipasso

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Re: Healing Schizophrenia with Meditation
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2009, 09:56:14 PM »
It would be great doing so... Me having the same kind of problems...
The girl doesn't actually mention Schizophrenia on other videos. She mentions some kind of bypolar disease with a schizoaffective personality type... Which leaves me wondering... "What's her real diagnosis, afterall?"
I think meditation should be of great help in almost all kinds of diseases and un-easinesses but one shouldn't expect it to be a cure...  That's putting a way to high craving on top of your meditation, which may block you from seeing it's real utility and effects.

Neuroleptics have lots of side effects, but it's best to work one's way out towards a good life with neuroleptics than to blow one's chance of ever having a "normal" life again...

Being that normal isn't so bad afterall.

Matthew

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Re: Healing Schizophrenia with Meditation
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2009, 07:03:51 AM »
I believe this woman suffered Dissociative Identity Disorder and not Schizophrenia. DID is very usually misdiagnosed as Schizophrenia. It is not clear to me but I believe she may have suppressed her other identities and brought one to great strength - using meditation (I have good reasons for suspecting this including physical signs she exhibits). For her it has been a way to cope but I do not believe this to be a healing from Schizophrenia nor a full recovery from DID. I'll watch more of her videos and comment some more.

Matthew
« Last Edit: January 26, 2009, 07:04:42 AM by The Irreverent Buddhist »
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greenhorn

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Re: Healing Schizophrenia with Meditation
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2009, 08:43:35 PM »
I also find it a little bit suspicious that someone can heal from schizophrenia just by doing meditation.Or she suffered from a less severe form..

pimpoum

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Re: Healing Schizophrenia with Meditation
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2009, 09:59:55 PM »
I don't want to enter in a debate here, but just to share my thoughts on the subject. I've been reading quite a lot about madness lately and realised that clinical categories of psychiatric illnesses are far from being as clear as the ones for somatic illnesses.

While for a physician a symptom points to a cause in the body (pain<---bruise), in psychology, all we have are symptoms which professionals try to gather into a category. The question is: Is there such a thing as shizophrenia? I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, but just that the category is a theoretical construct (one which has greatly changed over the years) which we put as a cause (hallucination<---schizophrenia) although it is an effect of our reasoning on the symptom (And the woman in the video is very aware of this state of affairs). Psychiatrists don't really know what schizophrenia IS because it IS nothing in itself, it is not as tangible as a bruise or a bacteria which causes pain or flu.

That's why it's quite hard to talk of diagnosis and even more of misdiagnosis. The only established fact (provided she tells the truth) is that she had symptoms which she managed to get rid of through a meditative practice. Whether her case was fundamentally and essentially different from other cases (and whether all cases of schizophrenia are identical in nature) might remain a mystery for a long long time...

I recomment Michel Foucault's very small essay Mental illness and psychology for those interested in this tricky question

Matthew

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Re: Healing Schizophrenia with Meditation
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2009, 06:07:58 AM »
R D Laing said there was no such thing as Schizophrenia and his reasoning and experiential accounts are very compelling.

I agree with him form personal expeience.

Most if not all cases of Schizophrenia, Bipolar disorder, mood affective disorder, personality disorder are all the same thing: The child mind's way of coping with a childhood that was, to one extent or another, a toxic environment.
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Flipasso

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Re: Healing Schizophrenia with Meditation
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2009, 12:50:55 AM »
It's true no one can pinpoint what schizophrenia really is...  Just as no one can pinpoint what a race is...
If someone is black you recognize that he is black because of the colour of his skin (the sign) there are some genetic info that people with black coloured skin have in common (causes) just as there are some genetic info that people with schizophrenia have in common. That doesn't make all blacks the same nor all schizophrenics the same.

The point is, that the positive and negative symptoms of the disease can be attenuated by medication allowing the individual to be able to cope and lead a healthy life. There are reports of people who succesfully dealt with schizophrenia without medication - Rufus May the doctor who hears voices is one example, and John Nash the mathematician from A Beautiful Mind is probably the most mediatic example - but there are a lot of schizophrenics who suicide during psychotic episodes and some murder or commit other life threatening actions.
There's also the possibility of loosing mental capacities of communication and reasoning and calculing permanently following a psychotic break. This means becoming a nut-case for ever.
There's also the possibility of the schizophrenia receeding(spl?) after some years and one stopping one's medication and proceeding with one's life...
And the drugs that are used to control schizophrenia (neuroleptics) are becoming each day less harmfull and are nothing compared to what was used in John Nash's days that unabled him to think propperly.

I'm a schizophrenic under medication and I was able to reason out this answer and to have 18 out of 20 in a physics exam while heavily medicated 3 years ago!
By the way, my childhood wasn't that traumatic, my adulthood-entry was much more. This was due to the drugs I took that made me schizophrenic and the psychotic symptoms themselves were the reason/cause of trauma, and not caused by trauma!!!

To conclude:
No one should atempt to stop medication without professional support. It's very dangerous and it's probably better to live a life taking a friking pill every day than not to live at all!!
http://www.youtube.com/v/si_tCGuPg9E&hl=pt-br&fs=1
This girl stopped taking her meds, but she was having support. None the less(spl?) she spend quite a troublesome time...

Good luck...
« Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 01:27:44 AM by FlipAsso »

pimpoum

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Re: Healing Schizophrenia with Meditation
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2009, 01:41:36 PM »
Nevermind. Complete misreading of the above.
@Flipassa: Agreed!

 Cheers!  :)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 05:26:30 PM by pimpoum »

alex

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Re: Healing Schizophrenia with Meditation
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2009, 03:18:03 PM »
Hi FlipAsso,

thank you for your contribution, and for the interesting video (I didn't watch it it completely yet - quite scary stuff). You are the voice of reason within a topic of prejudice and fear. Psychiatry and its methods and medications have evolved dramatically over the last 20 years.

No one should atempt to stop medication without professional support. It's very dangerous and it's probably better to live a life taking a friking pill every day than not to live at all!!

I completely agree with you. To me it sounds like madness (excuse the pun...) when someone suggests on an internet forum to stop taking medication and thereby endangering lives of people he has never met in person! To stress your message again I quoted it.

Greetings,
Alex!

Flipasso

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Re: Healing Schizophrenia with Meditation
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2009, 08:06:35 PM »
To me it sounds like madness (excuse the pun...) when someone suggests on an internet forum to stop taking medication and thereby endangering lives of people he has never met in person! To stress your message again I quoted it.
I don't know if it's madness, or sadism!!

greenhorn

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Re: Healing Schizophrenia with Meditation
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2009, 11:46:46 PM »
Thank you all for your responses and for your willingness to share your experiences with this condition. I think that is awfully nice of you and your openness to bringing things out in the open shows that meditation has opened healing doors for you (at least I would like to think it's mediatation more than drugs :)

Although, I'd say Flipasso and Alex, you've been a bit hard on Hazmatac. He was just making a suggestion, and that based on his experiences. He was expressing his opinion on an issue, he wasn't giving me a prescription or a magic cure to this disease. Remember, this is a forum, not a hospital.

Flipasso, thank you for the  videos. I was amazed by Ruth's doctor's dedication in this case. I don't know where you can find such people who are willing to spend so much time with their patients. And it was also a lot of risk involved. In those 7 months she stopped being in touch with him, bad things might have happened.

The movie was definitely an eye opener for me. It showed me a different perspective on this condition. I've always known it's a genetic condition.

Thank you all, and good luck.
Monica

greenhorn

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Re: Healing Schizophrenia with Meditation
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2009, 12:22:45 AM »
R D Laing said there was no such thing as Schizophrenia and his reasoning and experiential accounts are very compelling.

I agree with him form personal expeience.

Most if not all cases of Schizophrenia, Bipolar disorder, mood affective disorder, personality disorder are all the same thing: The child mind's way of coping with a childhood that was, to one extent or another, a toxic environment.

Matthew, which one of RD Laing's books would you say is the best? I'm not interested as much in his philosophical works, but in his practical approach to mental illness.

Thank you,
Monica

Flipasso

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Re: Healing Schizophrenia with Meditation
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2009, 12:29:25 AM »
Although, I'd say Flipasso and Alex, you've been a bit hard on Hazmatac. He was just making a suggestion, and that based on his experiences. He was expressing his opinion on an issue, he wasn't giving me a prescription or a magic cure to this disease. Remember, this is a forum, not a hospital.
I wasn't talking about Hazmatac, he did nothing harmful, from my prespective, he was just giving us useful info.
I'm talking about the lady on the video... She doesn't really seem to have or have suffered from schizophrenia, and if what she says is a lie, which according to most scientifical evidence is, then she is sadistic in putting such a video online!!!
Specially for a disease in which most people are kind of obsessed with stopping medication!!

frepi

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Re: Healing Schizophrenia with Meditation
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2009, 12:30:55 AM »
Maybe she thinks she is healed and is convinced meditation is the cure.

Matthew

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Re: Healing Schizophrenia with Meditation
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2009, 02:19:39 AM »
Matthew, which one of RD Laing's books would you say is the best? I'm not interested as much in his philosophical works, but in his practical approach to mental illness.

From Wikipedia:

"On mental illness

Laing argued that the strange behavior and seemingly confused speech of people undergoing a psychotic episode were ultimately understandable as an attempt to communicate worries and concerns, often in situations where this was not possible or not permitted. Laing stressed the role of society, and particularly the family, in the development of "madness" (his term). He argued that individuals can often be put in impossible situations, where they are unable to conform to the conflicting expectations of their peers, leading to a "lose-lose situation" and immense mental distress for the individuals concerned. (In 1956, in Palo Alto, Gregory Bateson and his colleagues Paul Watzlawick, Donald Jackson, and Jay Haley[10] articulated a related theory of schizophrenia as stemming from double bind situations where a person receives different or contradictory messages.) The perceived symptoms of schizophrenia were therefore an expression of this distress, and should be valued as a cathartic and trans-formative experience.

Psychiatrist and philosopher Karl Jaspers had previously pronounced, in his work General Psychopathology, that many of the symptoms of mental illness (and particularly of delusions) were "un-understandable", and therefore were worthy of little consideration except as a sign of some other underlying primary disorder. Laing saw psychopathology as being seated not in biological or psychic organs – whereby environment is relegated to playing at most only an accidental role as immediate trigger of disease (the "stress diathasis model" of the nature and causes of psychopathology) – but rather in the social cradle, the urban home, which cultivates it, the very crucible in which selves are forged. This re-evaluation of the locus of the disease process – and consequent shift in forms of treatment – was in stark contrast to psychiatric orthodoxy (in the broadest sense we have of ourselves as psychological subjects and pathological selves). Laing was revolutionary in valuing the content of psychotic behavior and speech as a valid expression of distress, albeit wrapped in an enigmatic language of personal symbolism which is meaningful only from within their situation. According to Laing, if a therapist can better understand his or her patient, the therapist can begin to make sense of the symbolism of the patient's psychosis, and therefore start addressing the concerns which are the root cause of the distress.

Laing expanded the view of the "double bind" hypothesis put forth by Bateson and other anthropologists, and came up with a new concept to describe the highly complex situation that unfolds in the process of "going mad" - an "incompatible knot". Laing compared this to a situation where your right hand can exist but your left hand cannot. In this untenable position, something has got to give, and more often than not, what gives is psychological stability; a self-destruction sequence is set in motion.

Laing never denied the existence of mental illness, but viewed it in a radically different light from his contemporaries. For Laing, mental illness could be a trans-formative episode whereby the process of undergoing mental distress was compared to a shamanic journey. The traveler could return from the journey with (supposedly) important insights, and may have become (in the views of Laing and his followers) a wiser and more grounded person as a result. This was consistent with the critique of the alleged dubious validity of "value judgements" prevalent in Western society, which was common amongst academics in the 1960s and 1970s (for example, the views of Michel Foucault).

[edit] Ontological insecurity, family nexus, and the double-bind

In The Divided Self (1960), Laing contrasted the experience of the "ontologically secure" person with that of a person who "cannot take the realness, aliveness, autonomy and identity of himself and others for granted" and who consequently contrives strategies to avoid "losing his self". [11] Laing explains how we all exist in the world as beings, defined by others who carry a model of us in their heads, just as we carry models of them in our heads. In later writings he often takes this to deeper levels, laboriously spelling out how "A knows that B knows that A knows that B knows ..."! Our feelings and motivations derive very much from this condition of "being in the world" in the sense of existing for others, who exist for us. Without this we suffer "ontological insecurity", a condition often expressed in terms of "being dead" by people who are clearly still physically alive.

In Self and Others (1961), Laing's definition of normality shifted somewhat.[12]

In Sanity, Madness and the Family (1964), Laing and Esterton give accounts of several families, analysing how their members see each other and what they actually communicate to each other. The startling way in which lies are perpetuated in the interest of family politics rings true to many readers from 'normal' families, and Laing's view is that in some cases these lies are so strongly maintained as to make it impossible for a vulnerable child to be able to determine what truth actually is, let alone what the truth of their situation is."

Those two: "Self and Others", and "Sanity, Madness and Family". In the latter he expresses a view of Schizophrenia as an adaptive response to an insane family situation through case studies.

Matthew
« Last Edit: January 30, 2009, 02:20:31 AM by The Irreverent Buddhist »
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Flipasso

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Re: Healing Schizophrenia with Meditation
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2009, 12:41:24 PM »
I enjoyed this post very much... I see myself a lot in these sentences!!!

Did Laing, create any kind of therapy?

Matthew

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Re: Healing Schizophrenia with Meditation
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2009, 03:00:13 PM »
Laing created therapeutic communities in the UK. In these communities small groups live together, have group and individual psychoanalytic therapy and the purpose of the communal living arrangements is to allow each person to grow into their healthy adult selves. They have three houses in London.

Read the Wikipedia page linked at the top of my first post on Laing. He was quite unconventional, lived in the first of these therapeutic communities with his patients, disagreed with using anti-psychotics, experimented with LSD in therapy and slept with some of his female patients. He was identified with the "anti-psychiatry" movement though he himself disowned himself from this label. He was not anti-psychiatry - he just thought it didn't work very well and could be improved upon (in which ultimately he was entirely correct).

Matthew
« Last Edit: January 30, 2009, 03:00:51 PM by The Irreverent Buddhist »
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wadaye

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Re: Healing Schizophrenia with Meditation
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2009, 07:44:32 AM »
I don't see anything wrong with the first video. That sounds like her experience. Perhaps it sounds like a textbook case, but anyway that's her experience.

Personally I found it useful.

Flipasso

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Re: Healing Schizophrenia with Meditation
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2009, 02:36:29 AM »
wadaye:
I think your post is misplaced...

Matthew

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Re: Healing Schizophrenia with Meditation
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2009, 09:59:36 AM »
Is that better?
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Venture

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Re: Healing Schizophrenia with Meditation
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2009, 01:51:41 PM »
This topic is kind of old, but as a mental health worker I feel compelled to comment.

Schizophrenia is a very complex disorder, and it's still mostly not understood how it starts, what it does, and how to "cure" it. I've worked in psychiatry for 7 years now and I've never heard about a SINGLE person who completely recovered from it, so i'm very very sceptic of this story.

There's a few things missing, and a few mistakes in the story of that woman. She talks mostly about auditory hallucinations, and not so much about delusions. Delusions are simply ideas, convictions a person may have about themselves, people around them or their invironment that are...well... untrue. I don't like to use the word crazy. Here are some examples from my own personal experience, stories people have told me:

-Thinking you are the next incarnation of the mesiah.
-Being convinced you are a secret agent
-Working on an imaginary invention that will save the world
-Truly believing that you are dead, a zombie
-Thinking you are melting
-Being the secret lover of the princess of the Netherlands

The trouble is that in 90% of cases, it's absolutly impossible to convince someone that they're wrong. All you'll end up doing is making them distrustfull of you, angry, threatened and sometimes agressive because of fear.

The VAST majority of people with schizophrenia,like Monica's family member, don't think they are sick. Thats because they believe with all their heart that the things they are delusional about are real. The fact that they are so convinced is what makes it a delusion !

All that even the most advanced, latest generation of anit-psychotic drugs can do is take away "the sharp edges" of delusions, and lessen, or in some cases take away hallucinations.

The sad thing is that people with schizophrenia have to take medication for all of their lives,or the risk that they keep getting worse and worse is very high. Each psychotic break ( episode, or attack ) destroys more of "the mind" ( whatever that really is ) leaving a person more and more damaged.

Also, schizophrenia is not really one kind of disorder, like depression is. It manifests in different ways, and since psychiatrists described the disorder some 30 or 40 years ago there have been a lot of discussions about it. The latest devellopments suggest that it's actually made up of 4 or 5 different disorders, thrown on a heap. Psychiatry is a very young science, I'm sure that in 50 or a 100 years their will be ENTIRELY different views.


Venture

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Re: Healing Schizophrenia with Meditation
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2009, 01:56:30 PM »
I forgot to say that in order for a lot of different therapies or ways to deal with a psychiatric disorder by yourself, you really need a certain level of insight in yourself, as well as intelligence. Schizophrenia destroys both. Another sad thing about schizoprhenics is that it's usually discovered to late.

Monica, ofcourse I don't know enough about your cousin to draw any kind of conclusion, but most of the time all you can really do to help someone with schizophrenia is assist them with things hat are hard for them and trying to give them the best quality of life. Trying to cure is futile. Focus on the good things. Easier said then done, I know. I love to take my patients on long walks for example.

Matthew

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  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
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Re: Healing Schizophrenia with Meditation
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2009, 10:16:35 PM »
Teach them Shamatha meditation. The results will surprise you. Especially if, as they gain control, you stop medicating away their symptoms - and then teach them at this point to develop insight.

Matthew
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