Meditation and celibacy/seed retention

[Meditative]

Hello there fellow humans,

I'm here to seek advice, insight, or shared experiences in regard to practicing both celibacy and meditation together. For one year I have practice celibacy or what's been recently dubbed "seed retention." My practice includes no pornography, masturbation, ejaculation, or fornication of any kind. It also means protecting what I see and fleeing any situation that may lead to lust. To say the least I have experienced profound changes in who I am over the course of this year which would be too long to read, so I'll keep it succinct. My confidence levels have skyrocketed in every facet of my life, years of depression is now gone, way less anxiety, I am way more calm and also assertive in situations that require it. I exude a very strong masculine and intense aura compared to before and have discovered a deep well of inner strength inside me. Lastly I feel an abundance of physical and mental energy to do what needs to be done in daily life. It has pushed me to develop in areas of my life that have been lacking attention(namely more exercise, higher quality nutrition, fasting, and prayer).

This practice has been the main catalyst in who I have now become, but I am always open to new and safe ways to self-develop. A few years ago I practiced some meditation, as I was an avid new ager, but have since ceased as I became a  follower of Christ. I will never go back to my degenerate new age self, but a week and a half ago I remembered this forum and downloaded the Shamatha meditation instructions. I practiced for two days straight and felt more calm, so I continued with zest, and during the last 10 days I have logged over 18 hours of Shamatha. Just in this short period of time I have experienced it to be a real game changer. At work my brain is sharper and fluidity of thought is buttery smooth. I feel I'm able to wield this masculine strength received from celibacy with more equanimity and grace. Shamatha-Vipassana will definitely be a staple in my toolbox, and I'm excited to see my growth in it long term.

I'd like to know your thoughts on my experiences as well as any advice, insight, or share any experiences you have with celibacy combined with meditation. Much love to you all!

[Matthew]

Meditation works whatever your beliefs, yet one thing to bear in mind is that you might want to examine those beliefs. Where do they come from? What purpose do they serve in your life?

The denigration of "new age self" you engage in is interesting. It shows there is some anger or hated hiding inside your Christianity. This is something worth exploring.

I've been celibate as part of my path for twenty one years now. It certainly leaves much more energy and time to apply to developing mindfulness; present-moment awareness, clarity of mind, compassion, and wisdom.

Labeling beliefs and identifying with them can provide a framework, a certain stability, yet at the end of the day, even these beliefs need to be examined mindfully. That is the way to truly grow a solid foundation of wholesome action.

[Meditative]

21 years is very impressive, you must have some crazy superpowers Indeed you have developed much clarity, compassion and wisdom, as I often look for your posts when I read through different threads.

You are sort of right about the new age thing, there is some anger there, but perhaps more of a disapproval of my old behavior. New age doctrines teach no boundaries, right or wrong is just an illusion. If there is no God that cares about morality, then this would be right. It would be all be subjective because He's the one who sets the standard for what is objectively right and wrong. You are thus encouraged to do what you think, and feel is right. But as I came to learn, following my own way often led to misery not only for myself, but also for those who were close to me. Even the Bible teaches there is a way that appears to be right to a man, but in the end, it leads to death and destruction. Thus, not to lean solely on your own understanding, but on God's. Habitually I did some very wrong and unwholesome things in the past, but not only that, my thoughts and the desires of my heart were very ugly (By God's standards). At the time there was no conviction, my God given conscience was seared. So, looking back, yes there is some anger there and a strong disapproval. Perhaps more compassion can be developed for it, because I was truly ignorant and lost.

In regard to my faith, I never wanted Christ (rather he wanted me ), it's not like I woke up one day thinking to myself that I want to give this Christianity thing a try. It wasn't a belief in God that drew me in, but rather a series of profound experiences with God. From these experiences sprung a relationship, and over time that developed into a deep trust, or faith that is far more grounded than a mere fabricated belief. A few years later now here I am, my mind renewed and life transformed daily as old habits continue to drop like flies. I don't expect you to relate with me, but that's okay. I will follow your advice and mindfully examine my experiences and beliefs as my meditation develops and flowers.

[Matthew]

21 years is very impressive, you must have some crazy superpowers Indeed you have developed much clarity, compassion and wisdom, as I often look for your posts when I read through different threads.

No crazy superpowers. I have changed a lot as a person. Like everything, consistent work is what brings results. Even then things can slip if you take your eye of the ball; I've broken my celibacy on a very small number of occasions for example.

You are sort of right about the new age thing, there is some anger there, but perhaps more of a disapproval of my old behavior. New age doctrines teach no boundaries, right or wrong is just an illusion. If there is no God that cares about morality, then this would be right.

Any doctrine that teaches no boundaries in morality is not something I would find agrees with common sense or reason. As a Buddhist, morality is fundamental to the path; the ground upon which the other folds of the path are founded on.

I can't meaningfully discuss God with you as I have no reason to believe. I don't need a God to choose moral action. Despite your anger towards your old self, you still engage in beliefs about the nature of masculinity and having an 'aura' that have a definite new age feel about them. That might be worth investigating.

[Meditative]

Matthew,

I was joking about the superpowers. Most youtubers who speak on seed retention often speak about developing supernatural powers related to energy and vibrations... it's all very new agey.

Yes, some of my lingo does have a new age feel to them which I want to change but let me explain what I meant. By masculine strength I mean being able to maintain a strong masculine frame in daily life as well as in the face of adversity, whether it be with people or life situations. This means maintaining calm, cool, and composure, instead of reacting out of emotion (which is more feminine in nature). This may also mean standing up for yourself when someone is bullying you or walking all over you, instead of becoming a doormat due to fear or wanting people please. The masculine response would be to punch them in the mouth (literally or figuratively, not out of reactive anger, but grounded action), but a developed meditation would make you more likely to respond more peacefully by being calmer and more compassionate, yet still commanding respect.

By masculine "aura," I don't mean it as some energetic field around the body which may or may not exist; I don't know. What I mean is the way you feel and how your presence is felt by others by your body language, the way you move, speak, act, and behave, which often oozes confidence and authority on seed retention. Think of an alpha lion walking down the prairie lands, it has a strong presence, and every other beast knows not to mess with it.

Have you experienced a more masculine frame from celibacy? You've done it for a very long time, so you may not notice the contrast. I've been on it for a little over a year, so I can see the change like night and day.

[Matthew]

It's good you feel the presence of your strength.

. This means maintaining calm, cool, and composure, instead of reacting out of emotion (which is more feminine in nature).

And it would be great if you joined us in the 21st century ..

[Meditative]

And it would be great if you joined us in the 21st century ..

  

[Matthew]

 

I meant that very seriously .. you are exhibiting some truly dysfunctional thinking. This thread has helped me decide to close the forum. There's no way I can have a meaningful discussion with someone so blinded by, and confused in, their beliefs.

[dharma bum]

A lot of people do turn to meditation with the misguided idea that it is going to gain them some special powers or charisma.

I have to say the idea of the Dalai Lama and other monks stalking the prairie like alpha lions is somewhat odd, haha.

[Meditative]

I never meant to offend Matthew. I love and respect women fully, and don't mean to degrade them in any way. I definitely don't speak of all women when I say this, it's just been my observation that they tend to get in their feelings more. I'm not saying it makes them inferior in any way.

Dharma Bum- I was giving a example to explain how about seed retention making you feel more masculine, full of testosterone. I was not referring to meditation. Also, I never mention or expected meditation to give any kind of charisma or super power.

[Matthew]

...
I have to say the idea of the Dalai Lama and other monks stalking the prairie like alpha lions is somewhat odd, haha.

And yet, completely normal!

Chogyam Trungpa ... ran away to America with a 16 y/old English girl as her parents were against them marrying. Diana Mukpo as she became known, put up with Trungpa having 21 concubines (and a Bhutanese wife).

Trungpa died of alcoholism, laying in a cot, surrounded by acolytes who fed him bottles of spirits and cleaned up his shit and piss, waiting on tenterhooks for him to utter some words of wisdom in between sleeping and drinking himself to death.

His "Dharma Regent" nearly destroyed the Shambhala Sangha by sleeping with multiple students and passing on the great gift of HIV. His excuse/reason was "I thought my great spiritual awakening would protect the men I slept with".

Then Trungpa's son Mipham Rinpoche took over .. I saw in the year 2000 he was a sexual predator, though the news didn't break until the #MeToo movement when many women he slept with came forward. This despite him banning Acharya David Schneider from sleeping with students! Again, the Sangha was deeply divided, Mipham took to retreat to examine his wrongdoing ...  Not sure where they are now with it, though if you can't see a horrific pattern of patriarchal/male abuse I don't know what you need ..

Sogyal Rinpoche .. same thing: massive break in his global Sangha when news emerged post #MeToo of complaints from multiple female students he slept with. He stepped back from head of the Sangha to take a deep look at how fuc#ed up he was.

I feel quite proud of the fact that in 15 years running this Sangha I've only disgraced myself once in this regard, and not with a member of the forum 😊

[dharma bum]

Chogyam Trungpa ... ran away to America with a 16 y/old English girl as her parents were against them marrying. Diana Mukpo as she became known, put up with Trungpa having 21 concubines (and a Bhutanese wife).

True, but none of these guys qualify as seed-retainers (what a weird expression).

When you don't engage in sexual activity your body and mind can be under sexual tension. This is what Meditative refers to as feeling masculine. IMO feelings of power or authority, or the idea that you can commanding respect because of it is a delusion and in fact quite dangerous because it will lead to poor behaviour.

All these monks that engage in sexual abuse in fact behave poorly because they convince themselves and others around them that they are special people with special spiritual achievements.

[Matthew]

True, but none of these guys qualify as seed-retainers (what a weird expression).

No they don't .. more like "super-spreaders". And yes, the expression seed-retainers is pretty weird. It feels like something Jordan Peterson fanboys came up with to feel good about not getting laid.

When you don't engage in sexual activity your body and mind can be under sexual tension. This is what Meditative refers to as feeling masculine. IMO feelings of power or authority, or the idea that you can commanding respect because of it is a delusion and in fact quite dangerous because it will lead to poor behaviour.

I agree with every word you write.

All these monks that engage in sexual abuse in fact behave poorly because they convince themselves and others around them that they are special people with special spiritual achievements.

Yup .. they forgot the maxim, "before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water; after enlightenment, chop wood, carry water". That is to say, there's nothing special about "spiritual achievements". To be free of conditioning is the natural state; make a big thing out of it only proves your 'enlightenment' is shallow, at best, and more likely, a delusion of grandiosity.

[Matthew]

I never meant to offend Matthew. I love and respect women fully, and don't mean to degrade them in any way. I definitely don't speak of all women when I say this, it's just been my observation that they tend to get in their feelings more. I'm not saying it makes them inferior in any way.

I cry like a baby on a regular basis. This week it was a friend giving me wild flowers that set me off. It makes me a stronger person because I am not hiding from emotion.

If you read your own words back can you not see you are carrying a lot of prejudiced projections around with you? These attitudes are pretty much inherent in all the Abrahamic religions, Christianity included. They require close attention and mindfulness to untie yourself from them. This is work that you can do.

[Meditative]

Chogyam Trungpa ... ran away to America with a 16 y/old English girl as her parents were against them marrying. Diana Mukpo as she became known, put up with Trungpa having 21 concubines (and a Bhutanese wife).

True, but none of these guys qualify as seed-retainers (what a weird expression).

When you don't engage in sexual activity your body and mind can be under sexual tension. This is what Meditative refers to as feeling masculine. IMO feelings of power or authority, or the idea that you can commanding respect because of it is a delusion and in fact quite dangerous because it will lead to poor behaviour.

All these monks that engage in sexual abuse in fact behave poorly because they convince themselves and others around them that they are special people with special spiritual achievements.

It definitely is a weird expression; I think I have been watching too many "seed retention" videos on you tube to try and explain the changes I see within me. Definitely there's a lot of sexual tension in the beginning because one is used to constantly releasing, but over a long period of time it transmutes into creativity and the energy and drive to things.. Paul, an apostle of Christ said that abstaining from sexual immorality leads to sanctification. I literally feel that every facet of my being is deeply cleansed and strengthened, but I know this strength isn't mine because it comes from a higher source. You don't have to believe me, go ahead call me delusional, I'm not here to convince anyone. I definitely don't think I'm anyone special because of this transformation... I'm just a broken sinner who's extremely grateful for the amazing grace and mercy that the Most High has shown and given me.

Matthew, good for you brother, I cry at times as well. I'm not against men feeling emotion, rather I think it is healthy and the emotionally intelligent thing to do.. but as men I believe we shouldn't be attached, driven by or take these emotions into life decisions. Just my opinion.

I definitely came to the wrong place to discuss this topic because I feel misunderstood. You say my words a full of prejudiced projections, which may be true, as I am a flawed human being, but I sense the same thing in both of your words as well in regard to my experiences and beliefs. In a discussion between those with different worldviews, I guess this is to be expected. No worries though, this is a forum about meditation and any threads I make moving forward will be about that alone.

Peace be to you all.