Ajarn chah...if u have been to boxing ring.

[Thanisaro85]

Hello Sanghas,


It has been a long time, hope you guys are managing fine. I saw some sad posts here and i hope all are coping well.

 I had just taken up a few weeks project on ship, it was very physical draining and had to work without rest day as the ship will need to move out. It was difficult to work with mask on( due to covid measurement) and basically my mask and overall was so wet that i can't breathe.😑 it has been at least 25 years i worked on such a tough job and returning to it was a bad idea.  With anxiety and working in a enclosed area can be traumatising. Anyway, had finished the job and coming back to rest. Don't think i will take up another ship project, bad health is another factor.

Anyway, had chanced upon this excerpt by Ajarn Chah....not sure i am ready to go thru this( although sometimes i did)...btw, had totally stop meditating for a month i guess. Giving myself excuses because of tireness...



Overcoming Pain

Suppose you’re sitting in concentration and it really hurts. When it hurts, you come out of meditation. Then you meditate some more until you reach the point where it hurts, and then you come out again.

This is why you don’t understand suffering even though you suffer. Wherever you sit and meditate, you suffer pain. So you ask yourself, “What can I do to overcome this?” You have to make a decision: “Sit, but don’t move. Let the body die.”

You depend on what the Buddha said: Whatever arises passes away. If pain arises, why won’t it pass away? As soon as you sit, there’s nothing but pain. It hurts. It aches. Sweat starts flowing in drops as big as corn kernels. You’re about to move but you say, “Hmm. No. Let it die.” You have to take it that far—until the mind goes beyond death. The pain disappears.

Once you’ve gone beyond death, discernment arises. Confidence gets strong. You thought that you wouldn’t be able to stand it; you thought that you were about to die. This is called training yourself with a heavy hand. It’s not for general use.

After that, whenever you meditate, you understand—because you’ve seen how far the pain can go. This is called overcoming pain.

If you can’t overcome pain, then when you reach that point, you fall out of concentration. You die every time. You don’t have any strength.

You have to overcome it someday in your practice. Once you’ve overcome it, you won’t be afraid of it—because you’ve seen what it’s like. It’s like being a boxer. If you haven’t boxed in the ring, you’re afraid. Once you’ve boxed in the ring, you’re not afraid anymore, for you know what it’s like. You have to experiment with this. This is called overcoming pain.

~•~•~

It’s Like This: 108 Dhamma Similes, by Venerable Ajahn Chah, and translated by Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu.
https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/ItsLikeThis/Contents.html

[dharma bum]

Yes, this is good. I have has problems with this too like everyone.

When I say this too shall pass, well, the pain doesn't pass. haha. I have set up an expectation of the pain being transient and arising and going away. Then I get frustrated when it doesn't.

In fact, as I get older the pain might be a constant feature of my life. So we must make friends with the pain. I don't know how to. Still work in progress.

[Siddharth]

this too shall pass is an understanding that arises out of observing reality as objectively as possible. we tend to convert that understanding into a mantra, which only helps intellectually, but not much actually.

ultimately, observing the nature of reality is the only thing that we can and are supposed to do. the transformation of reality by that exercise is a byproduct which should not in the final analysis be our goal. just being is perhaps the most noble and challenging thing a sentient being can be.

metta
Siddharth

[Thanisaro85]

When I say this too shall pass, well, the pain doesn't pass. haha. I have set up an expectation of the pain being transient and arising and going away. Then I get frustrated when it doesn't.

I always have this question,  why happiness does not linger in our mind as long as sadness or angriness ?

I mean we went thru big moment of happiness and sadness, but why mostly the bad experiences keep coming back by default and it will last for days to even years? Is it becos of individual mindset?

Like person A helps me a great deal and i am grateful, it caused a short peaceful moment like 5 mins. But when o thought of B who betrayed me, the feeling last for days.

😑

[dharma bum]

Like person A helps me a great deal and i am grateful, it caused a short peaceful moment like 5 mins. But when o thought of B who betrayed me, the feeling last for days.

I think that is why the first principle is that Life is full of suffering and not Life is full of happiness.

Usually when somebody does us some kindness, we might feel grateful for a bit. Then it might be followed by thoughts like-
1. They only did it out of some personal benefit.
2. They did it because they know I am such a kind/nice person.
3. It's only a small thing that they did. It's not a big deal. I personally have done much more for people.
4. I don't need any kindness from anybody. There is no need for them to expect gratitude.

I think the capacity for kindness is in everybody like a capacity for gratitude but it is overrun by usual habits of thoughts, so the original instinct is lost.

But actually these impulses can also be lasting. If you try to recall some act of kindness you did, or some act of kindness that was done to you, you can go back to that original mental state pf compassion/gratitude and that can turn your mood for the better.

[mobius]

I recognize this is a mostly pointless post but I just want to assure whoever may be reading this; I still appreciate this forum. I come here every once and a while and read through topics like this; though I may have nothing to add I keep gleaning useful information!!!

[Middleway]

I recognize this is a mostly pointless post but I just want to assure whoever may be reading this; I still appreciate this forum. I come here every once and a while and read through topics like this; though I may have nothing to add I keep gleaning useful information!!!

I do the same Mobius. I also notice there are around 100 guests browsing the site most of the time. This forum imho still provides value to folks out there.

[Dharmic Tui]

I recognize this is a mostly pointless post but I just want to assure whoever may be reading this; I still appreciate this forum. I come here every once and a while and read through topics like this; though I may have nothing to add I keep gleaning useful information!!!

Hey Mobius.

Usually I don't have much to add to the conversation either. It's important to have markers pointing you back to the path, which are rare, and this is one of those places.

It's a noisy world out there so long may this quiet place continue.

[mobius]

When I say this too shall pass, well, the pain doesn't pass. haha. I have set up an expectation of the pain being transient and arising and going away. Then I get frustrated when it doesn't.

I always have this question,  why happiness does not linger in our mind as long as sadness or angriness ?

I mean we went thru big moment of happiness and sadness, but why mostly the bad experiences keep coming back by default and it will last for days to even years? Is it becos of individual mindset?

Like person A helps me a great deal and i am grateful, it caused a short peaceful moment like 5 mins. But when o thought of B who betrayed me, the feeling last for days.

😑

I definitely see what you mean. However I also can say, at least for myself this isn't always the case. [That is; sadness always being worse or lasting longer than the happiness]. Though something can probably be said for evolution causing us to develop stronger feelings for someone who betrayed us as it's more helpful in staying alive if you remember who double crossed you in the past...
 Anyways I think it may  have to do with a lot of complicated factors. In myself, especially the past couple of years I've realized that I go through waves of positive emotion and waves of negative emotion, often having very little bearing on actual stimulus or events in my life. In other words I get happy for seemingly no reason and depressed for likewise no reason.
At least through practice we can try to cultivate the positive and let go of the negative.

Just remembered something a Zen teacher on youtube said; "sometimes when you sit you may have to sit with incredible emotion like anger, hatred or sadness, to the point where you're crying or face is red with anger. Just let it be, let the emotion happen and observe it." That's happened to me (though rarely) where I started crying while sitting but wasn't really sure why. Probably very old trauma that needed to come out.