Author Topic: The Problem With Buddhists.  (Read 4881 times)

Matthew

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The Problem With Buddhists.
« on: December 15, 2008, 08:37:01 PM »
From “The Power of Now”, Eckhart Tolle:

“The word enlightenment conjures up the idea of some superhuman accomplishment, and the ego likes to keep it that way, but it is simply your natural state of felt oneness with Being. It is a state of connectedness with something immeasurable and indestructible, something that, almost paradoxically, is essentially you and yet is much graeater than you. It is finding your true nature beyond name and form. The inability to feel this connectednedssgives rise to the feeling of seperation , from yourself and from the world around you. You then perceive yourself consciously or unconsciously, as an isolated fragment. Fear arises, and conflict within and without becomes the norm.

I love the Buddha’s simple definition of enlightenment as “the end of suffering”. There is nothing superhuman in that, is there? Of course, as a definition, it is incomplete. It only tells you what enlightenment is not: no suffering. But what’s left when there is no more suffering? The Buddha is silent on that, and his silence implies that you’ll have to find out for yourself. He uses a negative definition so that the mind cannot make it into something to believe in or into a superhuman accomplishment, a goal that is impossible for you to attain. Despite this precaution, the majority of Buddhists still believe that enlightenment is for the Buddha, not for them, at least not in this lifetime.” (Emphasis mine).

Whether Tolle is fully enlightened or not he accurately diagnoses the root problem with Buddhists and Buddhism today, and in that alone he is more enlightened that 99% of Buddhists I have had the pleasure of meeting.

Originally published November 4th, 2005
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

mettajoey

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Re: The Problem With Buddhists.
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2008, 01:00:57 AM »
I'm glad you posted this and I agree 100%.  I feel that Eckhart has the ability to bring the essence of the Buddha's teaching into today's language.  I heartily recommend his books and one doesn't have the time he has his The Flowering of Human Consciousness teachings on DVD.  Buddhists have turned the teachings from 2500 years ago into a religious dogma that sometimes has nothing to do with what the Buddha taught.  The Buddha was not a Buddhist.  Anymore than Jesus was a god.

I just read a fantastic book called Letters to a Young Poet by Rainer Maria Rilke that has such depth of awareness with issues such as solitude, loss, pain and how ones growth from looking and accepting these things are the most truthful aspects of our lives and tools for learning who we are.  One would think he is a true savant and awakened being even though he carries a bible as one of his treasured books. 

Being enlightened is possible for any person who is willing to be quiet, alone and listen to their deeper selves and understand their connectedness to nature, the world and the illusion of time.  It is not a bastion for Buddhists alone.
The best type of meditation is the one that you'll do

Matthew

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Re: The Problem With Buddhists.
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2009, 05:53:25 PM »
Buddhists have turned the teachings from 2500 years ago into a religious dogma that sometimes has nothing to do with what the Buddha taught.  The Buddha was not a Buddhist.  Anymore than Jesus was a god.

....

Being enlightened is possible for any person who is willing to be quiet, alone and listen to their deeper selves and understand their connectedness to nature, the world and the illusion of time.  It is not a bastion for Buddhists alone.

I missed some of the profundity of this post. The last paragraph is very simple and deep.

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Paul

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Re: The Problem With Buddhists.
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2009, 01:41:07 PM »
Excellent posts TIB and MJ, I'm glad you've pointed that out and I couldn't agree more.  In fact, by saying that it may be attainable a few lifetimes from here is one way of ensuring that it is not attainable!  Also focusing on enlightenment as a concept is itself a delusion, enlightenment is merely a concept and I think that what MJ said neatly sums up the truth that is hidden behind that concept. 

I also read somewhere that anyone who says "I am enlightened" cannot be enlightened.  I think J Krishnamurti said that.  That's a wonderful phrase to meditate on, when you really look at it it makes complete sense :)
« Last Edit: January 13, 2009, 02:21:30 PM by Paul »

Matthew

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Re: The Problem With Buddhists.
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2009, 09:28:24 AM »
Excellent posts TIB and MJ, I'm glad you've pointed that out and I couldn't agree more.  In fact, by saying that it may be attainable a few lifetimes from here is one way of ensuring that it is not attainable!

This is the greatest single political and philosophical lie that has infiltrated and undermined the radical truth of the Buddha over the ages. It is propagated by the weak, who do not properly discern the Dhamma, who have not understood the Dhamma and have not met the Dhamma through right mindfulness and effort. And because they have been incapable they like to make it appear a superhuman feat in order not to put their own lack of realisation in proper context.

In the Dhamma,

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Flipasso

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Re: The Problem With Buddhists.
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2009, 12:37:49 AM »
It is propagated by the weak, who do not properly discern the Dhamma, who have not understood the Dhamma and have not met the Dhamma through right mindfulness and effort. And because they have been incapable they like to make it appear a superhuman feat in order not to put their own lack of realisation in proper context.
The question I want to ask is... So why the hell aren't we all enlightened yet?

Green Tara

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Re: The Problem With Buddhists.
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2009, 08:52:40 AM »
The question I want to ask is... So why the hell aren't we all enlightened yet?

We are FlipAsso, it is just may be enlightenment is not what you think it is.
The difficulty in understanding enlightenment lies in the fact that it is too easy  and too simple to see it.
 :)
"Samsaric beings! Cling not to worldly pleasures.  Enter the great city of liberation”

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
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Re: The Problem With Buddhists.
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2009, 12:48:25 PM »
You are my sunshine, la la la la la

(don't know the words) :D
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

mettajoey

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Re: The Problem With Buddhists.
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2009, 01:14:23 PM »
...my only sunshine, you make me happy when you are near... ;D
« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 01:15:28 PM by mettajoey »
The best type of meditation is the one that you'll do

Green Tara

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Re: The Problem With Buddhists.
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2009, 04:14:15 PM »
You see FlipAsso, as I said it so easy  ;)
"Samsaric beings! Cling not to worldly pleasures.  Enter the great city of liberation”

Green Tara

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  • Life is just a bowl of cherries
Re: The Problem With Buddhists.
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2009, 04:17:11 PM »
I also read somewhere that anyone who says "I am enlightened" cannot be enlightened.  That's a wonderful phrase to meditate on, when you really look at it it makes complete sense :)

Including the Buddha ?!!!!!!!! ;)
"Samsaric beings! Cling not to worldly pleasures.  Enter the great city of liberation”

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
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  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
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Re: The Problem With Buddhists.
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2009, 05:47:58 PM »
He didn't say he was enlightened - he said he was "awake". :)
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Spiral Mindscope

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Re: The Problem With Buddhists.
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2009, 07:26:11 AM »
The problem with Buddhism is that it has become or is in the process of becoming manualised.  Once can find much more written stuff on Buddhism than many other religions today.  Much the same thing happened with other more ancient relgions centuries ago - much of what is Buddhism is obviously based upon Upanishadic thoughts that Buddha consumed voraciously first and then went to experience directly.  Enlightenment isnt how the dictionary might define it - Tolle falls for the simplistic defintion and tries to unpack it. For many seekers and seers, it involves generating an internal light in one's mind - Buddha's own term was 'awake'.  A mind that awakes to itself and realises that there is no difference between the seer, the process of seeing and the seen, or indeed between the knower, the knowledge and that which is known.  These tripartite process are interconnected through energy flows ( and science has proved it, if one needed that) even if physical space separates the object from the subject.  When one wakes up to that reality - that one is an energy being, rather than a knowledge being, enlightenment becomes so much easier to grasp and remain in.

Green Tara

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  • Life is just a bowl of cherries
Re: The Problem With Buddhists.
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2009, 05:39:05 PM »
Buddha (pronunciation: [bÊŠd.dÊ°É™]) ("Awakened one" or "Enlightened One" in Sanskrit and Pali).
from Wikipedia

 :)
Doesn't really matter, does it.
"Samsaric beings! Cling not to worldly pleasures.  Enter the great city of liberation”

Spiral Mindscope

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Re: The Problem With Buddhists.
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2009, 05:57:56 PM »
clearly does to many here given the length of discussion and especially if someone has written a book on it.  But in reality no.

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
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  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: The Problem With Buddhists.
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2009, 06:14:45 PM »
Buddha (pronunciation: [bÊŠd.dÊ°É™]) ("Awakened one" or "Enlightened One" in Sanskrit and Pali).
from Wikipedia

 :)
Doesn't really matter, does it.

Enlightened was an existing European religous term imposed on the Sanskrit by poor western translations. Awake is the correct term and perhaps it is an important distinction. Enlightenment has been turned into an impossible goal by years of philosophising by people who were not awake to what they were doing.

Anyone can grasp the idea off "waking up" to reality.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

 

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