Author Topic: Overwhelming grief.  (Read 685 times)

Matthew

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    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Overwhelming grief.
« on: April 09, 2021, 08:06:40 PM »
Three weeks ago I broke from habitual use of social media and reading news. That became very habituated during the last year, as I struggled with severe health issues, and the isolation of lockdown. It was a way of hiding from my fears.

Having much more time to be mindful, I am now feeling overwhelming grief. I see it is all based on attachment or aversion. So my practice has become gently "lancing the boil" of this suffering. I sit and breath and feel, and it hurts. And I know the only way is to keep going, gently, gently: compassion for this suffering. My mind tries to wander to things outside: important things, but not things I have any power over, so pointless to dwell upon.

There is a sweet relief in this suffering and letting go of suffering.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Thanisaro85

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Re: Overwhelming grief.
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2021, 01:42:59 PM »
I didn't break away from social media. But i had quit reading things that may get political or have social justice elements. They aroused aversion and hates, I avoid them at all costs.

In my social medias, these are the few elements. Cats/dogs. guitars, weight liftings( i don't lift though) and lotsa monks wise words. Like Ajarn chah, lp dune, lp jaran and pramote. But i will avoid those pages which keep mentioned negative things that will bring my mood down. Some monks related group creators are way too pessimistic. Need to be careful not to them.

I hope you will get passed this overwhelming period soon. Sufferings are impermanence too, but too much of them can wear us out. Its painful.

Ajarn Chah said, when we don't own this body and mind, why bother with them?

This body is breathing in, this body is breathing out.  Pain is impermanence too.

🙏🙏🙏
A Mind Unshaken, when touches by worldy matter, sorrowless, secure and dustless, this is the ultimate great blessing~ Mangala Sutta

raushan

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    • S. N. Goenka switched to Samatha Forest Tradition
Re: Overwhelming grief.
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2021, 01:45:04 PM »
Hi Matthew,

Yes, it seems lockdown has been hard on everyone. We need human connection sometimes. I also think is the only way to get to the end is to sit through everything. Ruthlessly watching every thought. I guess everything our minds think basically is a lie. We can't cherry-pick that this thought is useful or this thought is genuine.

Thanisaro85

  • Member
  • When thoughts, sensations, feelings arise,know it
    • Reverend father Jaran, Pramote. Theravada
    • Still breathing.
Re: Overwhelming grief.
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2021, 02:03:22 PM »
Matthew,


This is a 20mins video. I hope there are lights here for your case.

You can skip to 7.09.

https://youtu.be/OezT2p0-r00

🙏🙏🙏

« Last Edit: April 10, 2021, 02:06:02 PM by Thanisaro85 »
A Mind Unshaken, when touches by worldy matter, sorrowless, secure and dustless, this is the ultimate great blessing~ Mangala Sutta

dharma bum

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Re: Overwhelming grief.
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2021, 01:04:00 AM »
Matthew, my best wishes to you and others for your well-being. My battles with too much news-consumption and isolation are old ones too.
Mostly ignorant

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
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  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: Overwhelming grief.
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2021, 06:39:03 AM »
I didn't break away from social media. But i had quit reading things that may get political or have social justice elements. They aroused aversion and hates, I avoid them at all costs.

I logged on Friday to see if I had any messages, so took a look. I found it all to be disturbing for my balance in many ways. The only good bit was one group I am in, full of intelligent, funny rebellious types. All the cat/dinner pictures and political stuff I found empty of meaning: egos grasping for affirmation.

Quote
I hope you will get passed this overwhelming period soon. Sufferings are impermanence too, but too much of them can wear us out. Its painful.

I'll get through it. Of course everything is impermanent - our attempts to avoid this cause much suffering.

Quote
Ajarn Chah said, when we don't own this body and mind, why bother with them?

Taking care of one's health is important Thanisaro. We have only one body, it's worth bothering with. Asceticism was rejected by the Buddha.

We need human connection sometimes.

Yes, we do, though I'll be honest I'm finding people who do not follow the Dhamma to be very difficult to spend time around at the moment: my ego is tender at being closely examined, and it seems the words and actions coming from the egos of others are transparent and unsatisfactory.

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I also think is the only way to get to the end is to sit through everything. Ruthlessly watching every thought.

Definitely Raushan, 100% this. Being mindful in every moment is hugely important: I lost track of that at some point and am acutely aware of it now, it's part of what forms this grief I am experiencing. Re-finding it has made it even more poignant.

Quote
I guess everything our minds think basically is a lie. We can't cherry-pick that this thought is useful or this thought is genuine.

I'm not so sure of the first part of this - more that until one achieves a certain level of deconditioning and concentration that there is little benefit in following thought. There comes a point where discernment needs to be a part of the path: unwholesome thoughts need discarding, whilst wholesome thoughts, reflections on Dhamma, for example, or analysis of what is being experienced may enhance the practice. Maybe that view will change.

This is a 20mins video. I hope there are lights here for your case.

Thank you, that is thoughtful of you. Though I do not always agree with some things this monk says, much of his teaching is very true.

Matthew, my best wishes to you and others for your well-being.

Thanks db ... may all beings find contentment 🙂

Quote
My battles with too much news-consumption and isolation are old ones too.

It is so easy to displace attachment from one 'bauble' to another. The ego really is a slippery bastard 🤣 When I stopped social networks, news went up. When I stopped news other distractions went up ... then I decided to just ignore all distractions ... and that's when I found this grief which felt overwhelming: not so much now, just a day or two on, as I've been sitting with it and it is softening around the edges, allowing itself to be seen and heard and felt. It still hurts, yet this will pass. Cutting attachment through the application of discernment and equanimity can't be achieved if the untethered ego is allowed to run after baubles ...

Isolation is less of a battle for me. Now I've gotten deeper into daily practice I welcome it; "the monk, having taken himself to a secluded place ...". It has only taken a few days to get back on the horse, and now most people disturb my equilibrium, as it is still early in this period of practice. I don't think it will be long before the opposite is true - that my quiet will disturb the ego of visitors 😆

Thanks all for your helpful responses.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Thanisaro85

  • Member
  • When thoughts, sensations, feelings arise,know it
    • Reverend father Jaran, Pramote. Theravada
    • Still breathing.
Re: Overwhelming grief.
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2021, 11:50:16 PM »
Ajarn Chah said, when we don't own this body and mind, why bother with them?

Taking care of one's health is important Thanisaro. We have only one body, it's worth bothering with. Asceticism was rejected by the Buddha.


For clarification purpose: not in that sense of not taking care of the body. It is by knowing that it is non satisfactory, non self and impermanence.  Suffering with them must come to a stop for all of us....🙏🙏🙏
« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 09:31:28 AM by Matthew »
A Mind Unshaken, when touches by worldy matter, sorrowless, secure and dustless, this is the ultimate great blessing~ Mangala Sutta

dharma bum

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Re: Overwhelming grief.
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2021, 12:23:07 AM »
One way to look after yourself without worrying too much about it is to set up a regimen of food and light exercise and just repeat it without giving it much thought.
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dharma bum

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Re: Overwhelming grief.
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2021, 02:32:48 PM »
I find that social media is almost only about status. In the old days of the internet, people were interested in stuff outside of themselves. Such as this forum is about meditation and is a bit 'old-school'.

But social media is mostly "look at me. I am so amazing."
Mostly ignorant

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Member
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: Overwhelming grief.
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2021, 09:51:49 PM »
One way to look after yourself without worrying too much about it is to set up a regimen of food and light exercise and just repeat it without giving it much thought.

Yes, this is pretty much what I do. I also grow food, so gardening meditation is a regular part of my day :)

I find that social media is almost only about status.

Quote
... social media is mostly "look at me. I am so amazing."

So much this ... I went back on Facebook a little over the weekend. It almost left my stomach churning. The attempts to be funny, political .. whatever .. are all so transparently "ego-fuelling".

Quote
In the old days of the internet, people were interested in stuff outside of themselves. Such as this forum is about meditation and is a bit 'old-school'.

Yup, very true. This forum is deliberately oldskool ... we did discuss moving to Farcebook once and I am very glad we didn't. We have also never turned on features such as "liking posts" that are available in the software, and have turned off any other feature that could be "gamed" to become ego-food.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 12:39:24 AM by Matthew »
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

dharma bum

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Re: Overwhelming grief.
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2021, 05:10:48 PM »
Quote
Yes, this is pretty much what I do. I also grow food, so gardening meditation is a regular part of my day :)

That is very good. I would like to do this some day.
Mostly ignorant

raushan

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    • S. N. Goenka switched to Samatha Forest Tradition
Re: Overwhelming grief.
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2021, 03:23:25 AM »
compassion for this suffering.


Hi Matthew,

Recently I listened to a podcast by Kapil Gupta where he talked about kindness. He told that it is a fabrication. What's your view on this?

Below is the link. You may have to unmute the video. I have just posted a small clip.

http://www.hashcut.com/v/xtCf6JW
« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 03:25:54 AM by raushan »

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Member
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: Overwhelming grief.
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2021, 10:20:40 AM »
Hi Raushan,

That is an interesting audio clip. I think it is true that we can manufacture/fabricate fake kindness. Particularly in the way Gupta is speaking of it, as an artefact of ego, then on an absolute level yes it is faked. In my experience a lot (most?) of kindness/sympathy/empathy is fabricated: it doesn't often come from a place of true understanding, most often it is about salving the ego of the person offering "kindness" rather than hearing, understanding and doing something to change the suffering of the other, based on true comprehension.

Compassion and kindness are not synonymous though. Compassion means "to suffer with" from Latin passare "to suffer" and com "with".

So when I wrote "compassion for this suffering" I perhaps didn't express that very well. I am not externalising, abstracting and then generating any kind of feeling towards the suffering: I am feeling it in the moment it is happening. I am suffering with those feelings in the moment.

The root of this suffering being felt is in past experience that has not been processed by the bodymind, yet the feeling is present in the moment. By experiencing this unprocessed suffering, re-living it, it becomes heard, felt, "suffered with", and can be transformed; moved beyond. It is not a pleasant process: it inherently involves actually feeling buried pain to remove it from the factors that condition the current state of being.

Thanks for sharing that clip. It's a hardcore/blunt take on things and I have to agree with it.

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Guillaume

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Re: Overwhelming grief.
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2021, 06:49:37 PM »
Hi Matthew,

I sit and breath and feel, and it hurts.

Can you do Wim Hof breathing? It doesn't even require to sit.
I have experimented it recently, it's very effective. It forces a bit the whole process, but it could be what you need to see the light in this time.

Thanisaro85

  • Member
  • When thoughts, sensations, feelings arise,know it
    • Reverend father Jaran, Pramote. Theravada
    • Still breathing.
Re: Overwhelming grief.
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2021, 10:40:13 AM »
Hi Matthew,

I sit and breath and feel, and it hurts.

Can you do Wim Hof breathing? It doesn't even require to sit.
I have experimented it recently, it's very effective. It forces a bit the whole process, but it could be what you need to see the light in this time.

I saw him on. youtube few years back, is it still require to pay for the course?
A Mind Unshaken, when touches by worldy matter, sorrowless, secure and dustless, this is the ultimate great blessing~ Mangala Sutta

Guillaume

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  • Free mind
    • Seeking light
Re: Overwhelming grief.
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2021, 07:19:40 PM »
I saw him on. youtube few years back, is it still require to pay for the course?
The videos I saw are free. Maybe he finally released them for free after a while, but there are plenty of people on youtube that show how to do them, with some variations.

I think I saw a comment on these videos that it looked like pranayama breathing for cavemen, I must say I agree on that! Anyways, breathing is always good if you feel down :)


Thanisaro85

  • Member
  • When thoughts, sensations, feelings arise,know it
    • Reverend father Jaran, Pramote. Theravada
    • Still breathing.
Re: Overwhelming grief.
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2021, 01:03:00 PM »
[The videos I saw are free.

Nice to know that, i want to learn his method for heath related purpose, but did not go ahead as i remember there is a fee coming with it. Will look into his video again.

Thanks🙏🙏🙏
A Mind Unshaken, when touches by worldy matter, sorrowless, secure and dustless, this is the ultimate great blessing~ Mangala Sutta

 

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