Any tips for high stress situations or for when uve done it wrong for a while...

[Username]

....and worked yourself into a bad state?

How do you then get out of a bad state that has lots of badly done attempts behind it?

Any tips?

For me I tend to try like hell and thats ok if you do it right but if you do it wrong it makes you feel bad and you cant even stop doing it wrong well I cant, also in high stress situations liek in public, its harder to do too.

Any tips to help with this?

[Siddharth]

you have been here for some time now username. It is a good time to more elaborately describe your situation.
answer the following questions without haste, and with patience and reflection:
1. What are you calling a bad state? physically and mentally.
2. what does trying like hell mean ? are you trying to meditate 14 hours a day? or the 30 minutes that you sit is too painful and you are still soldiering through ?
3. what does "lots of badly done attempts" mean ? how long have you been meditating?
4. most important - what exactly are you doing wrt the meditation practice ? and where did you learn to do it (if you learned it from some place like a youtube video or some retreat)
5. have you read the samatha meditation guide posted on this forum ?
6. do you suffer from some kind of ailment and taking medication for the same ?
7. what are your expectations wrt meditation ? why are you here ?

please take some time, think, reflect, and answer these questions with as much honesty as you can conjure up at this moment. If you really want help, you need to start making the effort. from an outsider perspective your posts without context can seem like an entitled effort to want quick solutions - when all of them taken as a whole. Vaguely defined questions come with generic answers, which then leads you to reply with things like : "do you answer questions"etc. better take some responsibility and post the questions in as detailed and honest way as possible.

slow down, reflect and have another go at it

[Username]

you have been here for some time now username. It is a good time to more elaborately describe your situation.
answer the following questions without haste, and with patience and reflection:
1. What are you calling a bad state? physically and mentally.
2. what does trying like hell mean ? are you trying to meditate 14 hours a day? or the 30 minutes that you sit is too painful and you are still soldiering through ?
3. what does "lots of badly done attempts" mean ? how long have you been meditating?
4. most important - what exactly are you doing wrt the meditation practice ? and where did you learn to do it (if you learned it from some place like a youtube video or some retreat)
5. have you read the samatha meditation guide posted on this forum ?
6. do you suffer from some kind of ailment and taking medication for the same ?
7. what are your expectations wrt meditation ? why are you here ?



please take some time, think, reflect, and answer these questions with as much honesty as you can conjure up at this moment. If you really want help, you need to start making the effort. from an outsider perspective your posts without context can seem like an entitled effort to want quick solutions - when all of them taken as a whole. Vaguely defined questions come with generic answers, which then leads you to reply with things like : "do you answer questions"etc. better take some responsibility and post the questions in as detailed and honest way as possible.

slow down, reflect and have another go at it

1) A bad state is a bad state one that feels bad, it feels unpleasant, its a bad state in terms of modern recreational life, so like stress obsession, unpleasant feelings
2) It means i try alot i put alot of effort in
3 It means I did mindfulness in an unskillful way rather than a skilful way in my efforts
4) you tube videos internet research and books
5 no because its a forum, with people less credited than you find in a book or on you tube, you can find world class tuition on you tube ands in books i wouldnt waste my time on soemthing written by someone  less proven
6 no im obsessive and paranoid tho
7 im attempting to make my happiness reliable and more with less effort needed

[Matthew]

Username,

Every day is a new day. However much you have done it wrong, you can start doing it right as of this moment. Despite your insistence that the best help you can get is from youtube and books, that is probably mistaken. This approach is certainly is not bringing you any peace is it? From your answers to Siddharth I can only recommend you follow the advice I gave to you last week:

...

You really need to sit more or you'll never get as handle on it. If you fail to let go and understand it's because your ego is so frightened it creates a wandering mind you have no idea how to tame. Read the calm abiding instructions from the homepage and do it for a couple of weeks, at least 40 minutes per day in one sitting.

You may think me "unqualified", yet the instructions were written in a secular manner to help people ground themselves in practice in a balanced way: a right mix of effort and relaxation. You do need to try (by doing it), yet that trying also needs to aim for a calm centred way of being present. I have worked with this practice successfully helping students and staff at a university, and it has helped many who have come here who have been struggling with practice, so why not give it a try? Why not try the experiment of a couple of weeks of this practice? - all it asks is you let go of your very many preconceptions.

You will only ever understand meditation by getting into it. YouTube isn't working for you clearly.

[Alex]

Any tips?

You seem to be looking outside for solutions like a dog chasing its tail... Too much effort and result-orientedness.
Don't give in to the obsessive and counterproductive urge (for relief?).
Just sit and relax.

Importantly and perhaps paradoxically, dropping the action that causes stress comes about by simply being aware of what we are doing rather than by doing something to try to change or fix the situation. Instead of trying to get in there and untangle the snarled mess of our lives (and making it more tangled in the process), we step back and let it untangle itself.

Kindly
Alex

[Username]

Username,

Every day is a new day. However much you have done it wrong, you can start doing it right as of this moment. Despite your insistence that the best help you can get is from youtube and books, that is probably mistaken. This approach is certainly is not bringing you any peace is it? From your answers to Siddharth I can only recommend you follow the advice I gave to you last week:

...

You really need to sit more or you'll never get as handle on it. If you fail to let go and understand it's because your ego is so frightened it creates a wandering mind you have no idea how to tame. Read the calm abiding instructions from the homepage and do it for a couple of weeks, at least 40 minutes per day in one sitting.

You may think me "unqualified", yet the instructions were written in a secular manner to help people ground themselves in practice in a balanced way: a right mix of effort and relaxation. You do need to try (by doing it), yet that trying also needs to aim for a calm centred way of being present. I have worked with this practice successfully helping students and staff at a university, and it has helped many who have come here who have been struggling with practice, so why not give it a try? Why not try the experiment of a couple of weeks of this practice? - all it asks is you let go of your very many preconceptions.

You will only ever understand meditation by getting into it. YouTube isn't working for you clearly.

Are you famous? World class? Who's lives have you changed? Do you have any education pedigree? Where's the proof? Have you got a published book sold world wide? Is there even a video of yourself in a particularly good mood?

Narcissism and delusions of greatness, when actually being below average in reality?

Wake up from your DREAM dude

[Username]

Any tips?

You seem to be looking outside for solutions like a dog chasing its tail... Too much effort and result-orientedness.
Don't give in to the obsessive and counterproductive urge (for relief?).
Just sit and relax.

Importantly and perhaps paradoxically, dropping the action that causes stress comes about by simply being aware of what we are doing rather than by doing something to try to change or fix the situation. Instead of trying to get in there and untangle the snarled mess of our lives (and making it more tangled in the process), we step back and let it untangle itself.

Kindly
Alex

Yea I see what you are saying, its a good observation, thanks Ill take that as a good tip

Kind regards

Thanks very much again you are superb !!!

[raushan]

I think I might ban you. Watch what you say here. Be respectful. You have been warned before multiple times.

[Username]

*deleted for abusive content*

[Laurent]

Meditation does not provide quick solutions to psychological or other problems. It is a discipline that gives results over time. We can have more convincing results by doing a retreat but I m not sure that you can cure stress with meditation. But it will lead you to develop less stress over time. The principle is that you have to suffer this stress because it is the result of past actions and it arises now, but you can stop producing actions that will lead to stress in the future, which is the purpose of buddhist meditation.
Meditation is also "not to react", learning to calm down and keep patient. It will stop by itself.

[Siddharth]

I think I might ban you. Watch what you say here. Be respectful. You have been warned before multiple times.

My feeling with this has been that the only reason username is here on the forum, posting for help is that he is in pain. clearly. acting more like an angry teenager, channeling his fear and pain through abuse.
When confronted with questions like exactly how much time does he spend meditating, and what meditation does he practice, given he said he was "trying like hell" and "doing it wrong", he had to face himself and rather continued to hide behind vague answers like "I put a lot of effort in".. this is a classic response of a bully like personality when confronted for their behavior.

if he does not think the members on this forum are credible to help him, why post in the first place ? I have seen his rants so far as cry for help and tried to focus on helping with the ailment and avoiding the foul smell of the symptoms.
But there has to be some basic decorum on the forum wrt civility and being respectful, and I think username has now been adequately made aware of his behavior. Any further speech which is abusive simply for the sake of being abusive is liable for a ban (imo, other members may voice their opinions on this).

Hoping username gets the help he needs, from here, or somewhere else,
Siddharth

PS - I have made a conscious choice to post on this forum only when I feel a certain centred-ness in my being. I am writing this with intentions to help the username and keep the forum as a healthy place to move ahead on the path. As far as I can look within, while writing this post I do not have feelings of ill will towards username or his post, but just trying to move ahead with radical honesty and compassion in general.

[Matthew]

Who's lives have you changed?

Many people. I don't count. I agree with Raushan that there's little point you being here without an attitude change, and with Siddharth that you are acting from pain. Thus if you want help it's here, if not please leave.

I have offered you a proven, known way to move beyond your situation. Don't be fooled by fame or lack of it. Get your arse on the cushion and sit, and fail at it, so you might learn to succeed.

[Alex]

We’re all dreaming, Username, we all are. That’s why we do this practice. To wake up from the reality distortions caused by greed, aversion and ignorance. No need to judge others or yourself for it. It’s common humanity.
So we do this practice. Day in day out. Month after month. Year after year.
Trial and error. Feeling our way forward.
No golden tip. Just sitting. Patience. Step by step.

I remember a difficult fase many years ago. So much suffering, despair. Frantically looking for solutions. Expecting from others what I was not giving to myself.
But I persevered.
The take-home message: so can you.

Are you sitting each day? What practice and how long?

You are devaluating some, idealizing others. We’re not fooled. We’re just human. We have flaws and we have things to offer. (This also goes for people whith fame of authority.)
We can take a lot (thanks to all for the serenity) but a line has been drawn: basic respect is an essential condition for creating a space where we can all learn from each other. You're still welcome to be a part of that.

Kindly
Alex

[Matthew]

...
We can take a lot (thanks to all for the serenity) but a line has been drawn: basic respect is an essential condition for creating a space where we can all learn from each other. You're still welcome to be a part of that.

Thank you Alex for this. Most helpful as always.

Username,

You have been here since August last year. You've been asking various questions around the same themes. You have been chasing the perfect answer, but there isn't one. You have to do it for yourself - why below my name it says meditation is a D.I.Y thing.

You don't have to believe anyone. There's not much place for belief in the teachings of the Buddha. The word 'faith' is used to mean 'have enough confidence that the teachings are true to try them for yourself and find out what is true and what is not'.

I'm not trying to sell you anything. I don't want your love, money, or even your respect. There is an expectation that by joining discussions here you will be respectful though - that is the minimum requirement.

I can tell from your posts and replies that you are frustrated, that you are suffering, and that you really are deeply motivated to heal those things which trouble you. This is a good starting point.

You've spent the last six months seeking and not finding answers. This must feel most unsatisfactory. All I am suggesting is that you try an experiment for two weeks. Is that such a terrible thing, such a great burden, that you need to reject it, without even trying?

Please, for your own benefit, go to the homepage and print off the 'Calm-abiding' meditation instruction. Forget everything else you think you know. Try it for two weeks. If you cannot stick with it for 40 minutes, then start with 30 or 20. There's no point meditating for less than twenty minutes - it takes about ten minutes just to settle the body and mind.

Try it. Ask questions if you don't understand the instructions. What have you got to lose?

We all give our time here trying to the best of our abilities to help each other when we hit hurdles on the path. You have made a huge hurdle from the idea of the perfect practice. You will only learn what works for you by testing the options, yet doing so requires a small investment of your time and energy.

Drop everything you think you know, try the experiment. I know, if you follow those instructions and stick to them for two weeks, you will begin to know through personal experience the essence of mindfulness/meditation - something which has clearly eluded you to date.

Whatever you choose to do,  I wish you well. You might not have confidence in me, but I don't ask you to: you need to find confidence in yourself, by doing meditation consistently.

In the Dhamma,

Matthew

[raushan]

Alex and Matthew you both have been very patient with the behavior of Username. But I would like to add one thing that there are other members on this forum and they may not be as understanding as you are and may not be as tolerant. Username words can create a negative environment in such cases. He has already used abusive language once.

So, I would like to add if he wants to take the benefit of this forum He must follow basic etiquette. Otherwise, I may have to ban him. As Siddhartha mentioned before everyone is giving their time here out of compassion so It shouldn't be taken for granted.

[Matthew]

...
So, I would like to add if he wants to take the benefit of this forum He must follow basic etiquette.
...

Absolutely no disagreement with you on that point Raushan.

...
There is an expectation that by joining discussions here you will be respectful though - that is the minimum requirement.
...

[raushan]

Also, Username when you ask a question you ask without any context. So if someone asks you more questions you answer them properly. This is I guess fourth time he has been asked what practice he is doing he still hasn't answered it clearly. No one has the luxury of time to ask the same thing again and again. It creates repetition. Some of his answers to Siddharth's question don't provide any clear information. We won't bother to answer the incomplete questions. No one has time for that.

[Alex]

Alex and Matthew you both have been very patient with the behavior of Username. But I would like to add one thing that there are other members on this forum and they may not be as understanding as you are and may not be as tolerant. Username words can create a negative environment in such cases. He has already used abusive language once.

So, I would like to add if he wants to take the benefit of this forum He must follow basic etiquette. Otherwise, I may have to ban him. As Siddhartha mentioned before everyone is giving their time here out of compassion so It shouldn't be taken for granted.

We're all in agreement that following basic etiquette is the way forward.

Personally, I think we can also look beyond transgressions, as Siddarth already mentioned. And own our reactions towards those transgressions. There is much to learn about ourselves.
Actually, in much the same way that I look beyond Username's praise. I'm glad my words were perceived as helpful in some way or another, but I don't take it personally.

Does this make sense?

[dharma bum]

Yes, I also ask for civility from Username.

I also ask Username to think about why he asks so many questions. Is it an answer you're looking for, or are you asking from a sense of boredom?

These are questions I ask myself too. Sometimes I ask questions and then delete them because I realize I don't really want a discussion about it because it would be a waste of space in my head.

Generally if you ask a question, you should be interested in any response that makes you think. If you keep getting into fights with people over your questions, then you have to ask yourself why.

[Matthew]

...

I don't take it personally.

Does this make sense?

Absolutely yes. Taking any response personally comes from ego. Every interaction is an opportunity to learn, an opportunity to practice compassion, inquiry and development of insight off the cushion.

[raushan]

We're all in agreement that following basic etiquette is the way forward.

Personally, I think we can also look beyond transgressions, as Siddarth already mentioned. And own our reactions towards those transgressions. There is much to learn about ourselves.
Actually, in much the same way that I look beyond Username's praise. I'm glad my words were perceived as helpful in some way or another, but I don't take it personally.

Does this make sense?

Yes, I agree my response comes sometimes in a reactive manner. I will try to be mindful of those.

[Siddharth]

I just want to reiterate what has been said above for username.
If you decide to follow basic civility and humility on the forum, it's all good.
People on this forum  would like to help you best they can. No-one is claiming to be someone they are not, and perhaps this is one of the rare places on the web where people are as tolerant as they are. why not share where you are and explore possibilities of a better state of being.

Noone is interested in holding grudges here, people understand the harms of that to themselves and are wiser than allowing external stimulus on a meditation forum to become cause of additional misery.

I am reminded of the inscription on the Doors of Durin from the lord of the rings : "speak friend and enter"

regards,
Siddharth

[Alex]

...
Every interaction is an opportunity to learn, an opportunity to practice compassion, inquiry and development of insight off the cushion.

Yes, I agree my response comes sometimes in a reactive manner. I will try to be mindful of those.

Exactly!
What I've learned from relationships (not only romantic, but in general) is that the other person's response is always a response to my response. So which response am I inviting when I respond reactively vs mindfully or compassionately?
I find this fascinating: where do I end, and does the other begin?

[Alex]

I just want to reiterate what has been said above for username.
If you decide to follow basic civility and humility on the forum, it's all good.
People on this forum  would like to help you best they can. No-one is claiming to be someone they are not, and perhaps this is one of the rare places on the web where people are as tolerant as they are. why not share where you are and explore possibilities of a better state of being.

Noone is interested in holding grudges here, people understand the harms of that to themselves and are wiser than allowing external stimulus on a meditation forum to become cause of additional misery.

I am reminded of the inscription on the Doors of Durin from the lord of the rings : "speak friend and enter"

regards,
Siddharth

Warms my heart! 

[Matthew]

..
What I've learned from relationships (not only romantic, but in general) is that the other person's response is always a response to my response. So which response am I inviting when I respond reactively vs mindfully or compassionately?

(emphasis mine).

This is rhetorical I am guessing - though perhaps worth expanding upon a little. A key outcome of following the path is a reduction in reactivity and an increase in responsiveness: less habituated/conditioned doing, and more being in the now. Being in the now naturally leads to responses which are mindful and compassionate: they take in the others' truth more clearly, rather than your conditioned interpretation of it.

I find this fascinating: where do I end, and does the other begin?

Somewhere in the middle? Or perhaps separation is all an illusion ... I'll let you know if I ever open the final door beyond all confusion