Author Topic: I think I am bad in dealing with people Any suggestions  (Read 1296 times)

Matthew

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Re: I think I am bad in dealing with people Any suggestions
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2021, 03:36:38 PM »
...
I think I know something to find out later I didn't know anything at all.

Matthew put me in my place to make me aware of this. I threw a hissy fit, but he only did it for my own good. He was right: My ego and too much speculation was getting in the way for any kind of real clarity.

Hey, I will admit a I learned a few things along the way, but not very much.  :D

Recognizing that ego and speculation get in the way is an important lesson.

We all have our moments and sometimes, to be a friend, it is important to be an honest mirror - even if that stings a little.

It's good you learned the things you learned, and that you are still here despite your ego hurting a bit.

it's all good :) 
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Kennedy

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Re: I think I am bad in dealing with people Any suggestions
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2021, 10:25:29 PM »
Hi, raushan. I can relate to your problem aswell since i am in my late twenties aswell and still experiencing social withdrawal and plenty of social awkwardness.
I do not think i can give you real advice that can help you like what my fellows here have said. I just came by to tell you that, even though we may be islands in a vast ocean, you are not truly alone.

Regards.
"Is it conceivable, then, that I am basically an eternal existence momentarily and perhaps needlessly terrified by one half of itself because it has identified all of itself with the other half?"

raushan

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    • S. N. Goenka switched to Samatha Forest Tradition
Re: I think I am bad in dealing with people Any suggestions
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2021, 10:57:48 AM »
Hi, raushan. I can relate to your problem aswell since i am in my late twenties aswell and still experiencing social withdrawal and plenty of social awkwardness.
I do not think i can give you real advice that can help you like what my fellows here have said. I just came by to tell you that, even though we may be islands in a vast ocean, you are not truly alone.

Regards.

Hey Kennedy,

Nice to see you on the forum. Yes it's a bit of an odd situation. You want to be friends with people but not too friendly at the same time. Even socialization have certain hidden rules.  So there are certain protocols we have to follow. If we don't do that we will suffer.

maybeiam

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Re: I think I am bad in dealing with people Any suggestions
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2021, 08:30:32 AM »
Corona phase makes it more dificult .
and most on the internet nowadays is a not really respecting our daily lives.
good you recognize this and you want to improve, but dont feel guilty and dont think too much of it i will tend to  fabricate more negativity, we are all on the same vessel
Bless you

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
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  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: I think I am bad in dealing with people Any suggestions
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2021, 03:10:45 PM »
Hi Raushan,

You are describing social anxiety. It is is a difficult one - I struggled with it a lot during my life.

It kind of risks becoming a 'self-fulfilling prophecy' at a certain point: you feel somehow 'deficient' in social interactions and situations, this can then make those situations feel more awkward or acute, and this feeds back and reinforces the sense that there is something 'not right' about you .. and so the circle turns.

Quote from: Raushan
Earlier I used to thought that maybe it's due to meditation but now I think I have been facing this situation since childhood due to my personality. And this gap becoming bigger as I am growing older.

In my experience it is not inherent in who we are - much more to do with social conditioning (and then self-conditioning building on this). Personality is built on a foundation from our early interactions with those around us. This is where the saying 'show me a child age seven and I will show you the man' comes from. It isn't fixed though. Why would any of us be meditating and walking the path if we believed that, or if that was our experience of things?

As Tulku Ringu Rinpoche said to me "the most important teaching of the Buddha is that you can change yourself".

There are many dynamics that can lead to such issues. It can be something as trivial as a valued family member who gets a laugh from belittling you in front of others when you are a growing child; or something more serious such as having a mother who has narcissistic tendencies and/or is over-bearing: who pushes you to 'be something' you are not; and a thousand other possibilities. The cause is not so relevant as the cure (which is not to say that sometimes we may face painful truths about the cause while exploring the cure).

Quote
I also felt that sometimes we socialize just to escape from our minds. But still, I find overall at a loss.

Yes, socialisation can be a way of escape - often lubricated by alcohol or other substances that lower the normal barriers of social conditioning and the mind. Then you wake up with some kind of hangover - not just the one you get from drinking alcohol, but an emotional or 'psychic' hangover - from knowing that you filled the void for a few hours, but at the expense of your own being, your own truth: and, that filling the void with trivial stuff is impermanent and inherently leads to longer term suffering.

Quote
Have anyone here felt something similar? If anyone knows can you please give some suggestions how to balance it?

As I mentioned above I struggled with these issues for a lot of my life. I didn't realise consciously until I was about your age that I suffered acute social embarrassment and anxiety. This was some years before I became a practitioner. When I decided to tell a few close friends they really didn't believe me at first as I had hidden it so well behind a mask.

That was the beginning of me facing up to this in my own life. I learned a lot by being honest with myself and others. One of the things I learned is that I do not want to have fake social interactions with people who cannot accept me for who I am. I don't wish to socialise with people who don't want to be honest and mindful about themselves or hear those things from others. Usually such people's level of care towards others is as shallow as the activities they engage in.

Meditation is definitely a help and not a hindrance in my experience. Mindfulness is synonymous with 'remembering': it works on a lot of levels. On a basic level is being mindful of who you spend time with, choosing friends who have wholesome motivations, who care to be mindful of their own being and have no objection to engaging with you being a mindful person.

Remembering or being mindful of your own needs, and finding the kernel of what those needs are behind the social conditioning is greatly helped by meditation. Being mindful of equanimity is helpful too. Equanimity towards your own being and towards others: recognising that we are all living in a world of masks and not allowing the fakery of this to over-come you, or lead you into unwholesome action.

Other things I have found that help have included looking within to find and establish my comfort levels, what defines them, where they came from, and then re-aligning them with my felt sense of what works for me - or  sometimes gently challenging/pushing myself to extend my boundaries in a manageable way.

I discovered I have no interest in the way people normally define themselves in this world: by work, or money, or status, or power, or how hot their wife/husband is ... etc, etc. These things have zero relevance in how I value people and interactions with them. I value people and my interactions with them on how honest and straightforward they are; on how compassionate and true to their own morality they are; on the quality of equanimity they bring to any situation. Basically, on how wholesome and in line with fundamental moral/human values spending time with others is (these values being very much aligned with Buddhist ethics since I learned about this, though even before as it is what "felt right").

On a very practical level, I discovered I am more comfortable in small groups and one to one conversations and interactions. Any big group has a danger of tacitly agreeing a 'group mentality', and this involves pushing aside your own needs/values in an unhealthy way. I choose to spend social time mostly with one or two other people, so I can really have time for them, and they can really have time for me. I am comfortable in some social situations with a maximum of about five to six people, depending on circumstances: beyond that things tend either to split between the group into sub-factions, which becomes a problem for me, or the 'group-think' takes over and I walk away rather than getting lost in it.

So for me I worked on a) being honest with myself, b) choosing friends with discernment, c) choosing social situations with discernment, d) listening to others mindfully - key to this is not thinking of responses before you have fully listened to, and heard the other - and therefore, responding to them mindfully, e) knowing what I wanted to say and saying it mindfully, f) choosing to not get involved with or walk away from people who either lack a mindful approach or situations which engender a lack of mindful approach.

In about 1995, before I became a practitioner, I had over 150 social contacts in my address book. These were people I would go to parties with, or have dinner with or meet for drinks etc. One day, looking through this list, I realised that I really did not know most of these people. I realised that most of the activities I engaged in were quite empty of real depth and meaning. I decided to do something quite radical, because I also realised I was not capable of having true meaningful relationships with all these people. There literally was not enough time in the day for it.

So the first thing I did was go through this list and rigorously cut out the people who, when I reflected on things, I felt I would never make a meaningful, deep , and reciprocal relationship with. I cut the list down to about 25 people who I felt there was some possibility for a real meaningful and wholesome friendship.

During the next month or so, I made a point of meeting and spending some time with each of these people alone (or in couples where there was a partnership). During those interactions I asked them things about themselves on a deeper level than normal. Not invasive, but deliberately pushing boundaries a little: to see how they responded, including whether they engaged and whether they reciprocated and did the same with me.

By the end of that experiment I cut my list of friends down to seven people. Of course, a lot of time has passed since then, I have met a lot of other people .. some have come and gone, some have stayed around. Yet of that group of seven, I am still in regular contact with five of them twenty six years later, and have spoken with three of them in the last ten days. They will probably all be friends until the day one of us dies. One of the other two died already, and the other one we discovered an irreconcilable difference and parted ways agreeing with equanimity and friendliness that at that point in our lives, our lives had parted ways.

The truth is if you can fill the fingers of one hand with true friends you are doing well in this world: friends who will listen and hear; who will respond compassionately and with equanimity; who will be friends without needing you to be anything other than what you are - these friendships are actually quite rare in this world. We are born alone and die alone. That is true for all people - it is enhanced for those of us who are choosing the meditative path - to 'swim upstream', the wholesome life, or 'the road less traveled'.

The truth about friendships is that good ones are rare, they are open to (and can accommodate) change as we/other change, and they may be lasting or transient. The most defining factor in true friendship is quality over quantity.

In choosing a few good friends wisely, and investing time in those friendships, you will gain a better quality of life than by "fitting in with the crowd" - every time.

With love,

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Thanisaro85

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Re: I think I am bad in dealing with people Any suggestions
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2021, 01:21:43 AM »
They will probably all be friends until the day one of us dies. One of the other two died already, and the other one we discovered an irreconcilable difference and parted ways agreeing with equanimity and friendliness that at that point in our lives, our lives had parted ways.

This is nice and i feel glad for you, having a few close friends in the dhamma path(of the same depth) is good. I hope this is the place i can find some too.

Although my family meditate too, but unfortunately it is still miles away they will understand or concerned about the 4 noble truths and the importance of mindfulness.

Regards
A Mind Unshaken, when touches by worldy matter, sorrowless, secure and dustless, this is the ultimate great blessing~ Mangala Sutta

raushan

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Re: I think I am bad in dealing with people Any suggestions
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2021, 12:45:30 PM »
Hi Matthew,
'
Thanks for the wonderful reply. You are right about the part that How we grow up in our childhood shapes a lot our personality. I can relate to it on some level. Also about giving time to a healthy relationship is a wonderful idea. Giving more priority to the valuable relationship is what I am lacking. We can't treat every relationship as the same.

I should read it time to time.


raushan

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    • S. N. Goenka switched to Samatha Forest Tradition
Re: I think I am bad in dealing with people Any suggestions
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2021, 12:47:15 PM »
They will probably all be friends until the day one of us dies. One of the other two died already, and the other one we discovered an irreconcilable difference and parted ways agreeing with equanimity and friendliness that at that point in our lives, our lives had parted ways.

This is nice and i feel glad for you, having a few close friends in the dhamma path(of the same depth) is good. I hope this is the place i can find some too.

Although my family meditate too, but unfortunately it is still miles away they will understand or concerned about the 4 noble truths and the importance of mindfulness.

Regards

Hi Thanissaro,

Please feel free to DM me on this forum if you ever want to have friendly chat or discuss something Dhamma related. We can also connect on some social media if you are comfortable with it.

With Metta
Raushan

dharma bum

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Re: I think I am bad in dealing with people Any suggestions
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2021, 03:47:32 PM »
One of the things I have become good at as I got older is dealing with rejection. Say, I like someone and want to be friends but the other person doesn't seem as interested. When I was younger, I took this as a rejection. Now it doesn't bother me because looking at my own mind, my mind is jumping here and there, thinking this and thinking the opposite, liking somebody and disliking somebody based on something trivial and nonsensical. I'm not even sure what liking someone actually means. I don't even know why I want to be friends with someone.

So the whole thing becomes not very important. Who cares?!

Some months ago, I was on a bus and suddenly one woman started hitting a man with her purse and shouted "Don't touch me" and then she went to the end of the bus. The man looked ashamed and I came to the conclusion that he was some sort of a creep. Then I heard the woman yelling at someone else at the back of the bus. The man looked very dejected. He said, "I was only offering my seat to her because she was carrying a lot of stuff and so I touched her arm". "Yes", said a woman who was sitting next to him and had seen the whole thing, "You were being a gentleman".

So I came to a snap judgement about the man without knowing what was going on in his mind. It is like that with people. We have no idea what's going on in their minds.
Mostly ignorant

Thanisaro85

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Re: I think I am bad in dealing with people Any suggestions
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2021, 04:28:51 PM »
Hi Thanissaro,

Please feel free to DM me on this forum if you ever want to have friendly chat or discuss something Dhamma related. We can also connect on some social media if you are comfortable with it.

With Metta
Raushan

Hi Raushan, thanks for the invitation.

Will definitely DM you if there is anything i can think of for discussion, appreciate the invitation. This is nice.

Regards
« Last Edit: March 04, 2021, 06:38:54 PM by Matthew »
A Mind Unshaken, when touches by worldy matter, sorrowless, secure and dustless, this is the ultimate great blessing~ Mangala Sutta

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Member
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: I think I am bad in dealing with people Any suggestions
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2021, 06:49:35 PM »
This is nice and i feel glad for you, having a few close friends in the dhamma path(of the same depth) is good. I hope this is the place i can find some too.

Thank you Thanisaro - though these are, technically speaking, friends from my "pre-Dhamma days", the truth is I was acting with the Dhamma without knowing so. I also have some close Dhamma friends which is a blessing. I wish the same blessing will come your way.

... You are right about the part that How we grow up in our childhood shapes a lot our personality. I can relate to it on some level.

It is the force that shapes us more than anything IMHO - until you take charge of your life, and then it is your own intention, wisdom, skillfulness, compassion, mindfulness etc which takes over. 

Also about giving time to a healthy relationship is a wonderful idea. Giving more priority to the valuable relationship is what I am lacking. We can't treat every relationship as the same


Absolutely - choose to invest in those friendships where you are valued, where there is a wholesome "coming together", and you will be happier. Especially when you are busy with studies and other commitments there is limited time. If that time is spread too thin, or with friends who entertain yet do not connect more deeply, then you are only denying yourself the benefit of mutually respectful and wholesome relationships.

Much Metta to all,

Matthew

PS Thanisaro - I edited your post above as the quote from Raushan wasn't in the quote box.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2021, 07:06:06 PM by Matthew »
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Dhamma

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Re: I think I am bad in dealing with people Any suggestions
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2021, 07:25:23 PM »
One of the things I have become good at as I got older is dealing with rejection. Say, I like someone and want to be friends but the other person doesn't seem as interested. When I was younger, I took this as a rejection. Now it doesn't bother me because looking at my own mind, my mind is jumping here and there, thinking this and thinking the opposite, liking somebody and disliking somebody based on something trivial and nonsensical. I'm not even sure what liking someone actually means. I don't even know why I want to be friends with someone.

So the whole thing becomes not very important. Who cares?!

Some months ago, I was on a bus and suddenly one woman started hitting a man with her purse and shouted "Don't touch me" and then she went to the end of the bus. The man looked ashamed and I came to the conclusion that he was some sort of a creep. Then I heard the woman yelling at someone else at the back of the bus. The man looked very dejected. He said, "I was only offering my seat to her because she was carrying a lot of stuff and so I touched her arm". "Yes", said a woman who was sitting next to him and had seen the whole thing, "You were being a gentleman".

So I came to a snap judgement about the man without knowing what was going on in his mind. It is like that with people. We have no idea what's going on in their minds.

Boy, is that ever a good post!  You hit the nail on the head on this one.

I've heard Ajahn Brahm say that our memories, even our surest understandings of the past, are often terribly blurred, and thus completely unreliable to understand anything with a clear mind. Our minds play tricks on us, over and over and over again. 

Peace and enlightenment.
You are already Buddha

May we see clearly the emptiness of all phenomena

mobius

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Re: I think I am bad in dealing with people Any suggestions
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2021, 01:15:50 AM »
I haven't the time to read this whole thread so I'm probably repeating what's already been said, apologies.

I myself have often had this or similar thoughts as well. [as to the title of the thread]. What I can say for myself at least is don't stop interacting with people; and don't shut people out (Everyone at least, some people, a few, probably should be shut out from your life, the bad influences).

The more interactions I've had, the more people I've hung out with and done things with has helped me immensely. I grew up with Asperger's syndrome and got sickly nervous just being around family members and people I knew well, let alone strangers. Somehow I've managed to improve this flaw in myself immensely over the past 10 years. For example recently I joined a gaming community to play with total strangers; and as a result made some new friends. This is something I would never have been able to do years ago.

Meditation seems to have a way of putting truths out in the light that were hidden and in hindsight they seem obvious. I realized I just had to force myself to do things at some point. But all these things happened without me even thinking about it. I just did it and realized the progress I had made after the fact.
"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain

 

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