Author Topic: The process of letting go of desires? How to  (Read 643 times)

Dhamma

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Re: The process of letting go of desires? How to
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2020, 12:10:59 AM »
It is simply that Milco is on a different path than I am, which is fine. Only he knows the correct path for him in the end, whatever that may be.  I wasn't judging anyone - simply pointing out that his ideas of clinging, etc. are not as sharply refined as mine. ..... No one is judging anyone.

Keep on fooling yourself. You are judging, measuring yourself against others: "not as sharply refined as mine".

It doesn't matter how many times you repeat you are not doing it ... when you clearly are.

This is clinging to view, unwholesome, and it is an obstacle on the path.

In the end, all clinging must cease. I am saying that I know this very well intellectually, even if I don't know it deep in my bones. Some people don't accept that reality. I surely didn't a few years back.

Buddhism is Buddhism - end of story. If I say on here, "It is wrong to cheat on your spouse", does that automatically make me egotistical? If I call out bad behavior because it needs pointing out, am I egotistical? If everything someone is going say is going to be labeled as ego-based, there really is no point in talking. Why? Because we cannot really discuss and debate without our egos showing up. We need to minimize it; but we are not going to rid ourselves of it. I heard this very clearly from a good Buddhist teacher. Impossible.

This is why Yuttadhammo Bikkhu encourages Buddhists not to talk too much.  It just lands us into trouble. We hurt ourselves in the process.

It's very easy to be a slave to your emotions in the middle of a debate, etc. I never knew there was really a serious debate going on. LOL.

Peace and enlightenment.




You are already Buddha

May we see clearly the emptiness of all phenomena

Dhamma

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Re: The process of letting go of desires? How to
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2020, 12:18:43 AM »
I think am going to leave you all to your own various paths. I am on the wrong board here and my participation in these discussions doesn't serve anyone's interests.

We don't all have to see things the exact same way. I am just saying what any Buddha teaching book is going to say about clinging. We suffer because we cling. It's that simple. It's like a Christian saying that there is Christianity without Jesus.

I think your posts are quite interesting. I enjoy them a lot.

I wish you much happiness.

Peace and enlightenment.
You are already Buddha

May we see clearly the emptiness of all phenomena

Matthew

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Re: The process of letting go of desires? How to
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2020, 12:50:09 AM »
...
I am just saying what any Buddha teaching book is going to say about clinging. We suffer because we cling. It's that simple.
...

It's not that simple. You cling to a lot and don't seem to know it. You have aversion to a lot, and don't seem to know it. You are ignorant of a lot, and don't seem to know it.

Clinging, aversion and ignorance are the three marks of existence, and causes of suffering. I don't know what books you've been reading but they either missed 2/3rds of the formula or speed reading isn't your thing.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Matthew

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Re: The process of letting go of desires? How to
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2020, 12:53:14 AM »
...
I never knew there was really a serious debate going on. LOL.


I have noticed whenever you put "LOL" at the end of a sentence you are talking out of your arse, fooling yourself, and coming from a strong place of ego.

You might want to reflect on this.

In the Dhamma,

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Matthew

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Re: The process of letting go of desires? How to
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2020, 12:55:22 AM »
....
Buddhism is Buddhism - end of story.
...

 So not the end of any story :D
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Dhamma

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Re: The process of letting go of desires? How to
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2020, 01:15:07 AM »
I will be joining, Milco, in leaving the forum. I enjoyed my time here. But I am not going to be called names like a "fool" on a Buddhist forum of all places. If I want to be abused emotionally, I am not going to be so on a Buddhist forum. I didn't do anything wrong. The  "LOL" was not meant sarcastically, by the way.

I enjoyed you all very much. Best of luck to you all on your Paths, including you, Matthew. But I won't be abused on a Buddhist forum.
You are already Buddha

May we see clearly the emptiness of all phenomena

Matthew

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Re: The process of letting go of desires? How to
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2020, 08:05:48 AM »
I wrote you are fooling yourself, not that you're a fool.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

raushan

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Re: The process of letting go of desires? How to
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2020, 03:59:34 PM »
Yeah, I wanted to point out the same thing to Dhamma. He has inherent belief(which he doesn't seem to be aware of) that he has understood what clinging means, what emptiness means and he uses these terms very loosely to the point it conveys the wrong message to the readers of the forum. 

Suttas, Abhidhamma reading these things is really cool.  But there is a difference between understanding it and knowing it. If you will really know what clinging is you will stop clinging.

Now if your reaction to this post is that "I know I haven't understood deep into the bones" then you are failing to understand what Matthew or me trying to tell you.

Metta
Raushan
« Last Edit: November 16, 2020, 04:03:35 PM by raushan »

dharma bum

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Re: The process of letting go of desires? How to
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2020, 02:29:21 AM »
I agree with Milco when he/she says that family life is quite compatible with the spiritual life. In fact, having children and a spouse will test the limits of your patience and compassion like nothing a monastic life can. You have to be quite resourceful and creative to juggle various responsibilities and maintain an inner sense of serenity.

Children especially provide a lot of opportunity to cultivate selfless love. Not a lot of our love is quite selfless as a matter of fact, but when you have children, you might notice that the state of mind of love and affection for your kids can be extended to everyone around you. Mothers perhaps more than fathers are more capable of it.
Mostly ignorant

Matthew

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Re: The process of letting go of desires? How to
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2020, 11:03:58 PM »
If I want to be abused emotionally, I am not going to be so on a Buddhist forum.

You weren't abused emotionally. You were shown a mirror, both here and in my private message to you about your behaviour, your egoistic understanding, and how it manifests. Don't be such a drama queen.

And what is this "if I want to be abused emotionally"? - are you really perceiving yourself as that much of a victim? That's some projection going on.

I didn't do anything wrong.

I am not here to run down others, or compare negatively .... I need to start following Right Speech better.

Make your mind up. Did you do nothing wrong, or do you need to start following right speech better?

The  "LOL" was not meant sarcastically, by the way.

I didn't say it was. I said I had noticed a pattern in your behaviour you might wish to pay attention to - you could learn from doing so. Here, I found another example of you doing this:

I think I am speaking with great ignorance all the time, too. LOL.

First you speak the truth, then you LOL - ask yourself why you do this?

I will be joining, Milco, in leaving the forum. I enjoyed my time here.

That is your choice. Nobody has said you are unwelcome here. Only that you need to cut the bullcrap and start owning your own stuff. Or as Raushan put it more eloquently:

Yeah, I wanted to point out the same thing to Dhamma. He has inherent belief(which he doesn't seem to be aware of) that he has understood what clinging means, what emptiness means and he uses these terms very loosely to the point it conveys the wrong message to the readers of the forum. 

Kindly,

Matthew
« Last Edit: November 17, 2020, 11:18:56 PM by Matthew »
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Matthew

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Re: The process of letting go of desires? How to
« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2020, 11:05:51 PM »
I agree with Milco when he/she says that family life is quite compatible with the spiritual life ..

Very much so dharma bum. In the Buddha's Sangha there were many enlightened householders. In life we apply the lessons we learn on the cushion.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Siddharth

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Re: The process of letting go of desires? How to
« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2020, 12:36:48 AM »
I agree with Milco when he/she says that family life is quite compatible with the spiritual life. In fact, having children and a spouse will test the limits of your patience and compassion like nothing a monastic life can. You have to be quite resourceful and creative to juggle various responsibilities and maintain an inner sense of serenity.

Children especially provide a lot of opportunity to cultivate selfless love. Not a lot of our love is quite selfless as a matter of fact, but when you have children, you might notice that the state of mind of love and affection for your kids can be extended to everyone around you. Mothers perhaps more than fathers are more capable of it.

Hello, Dharma bum :)
I have recently been dealing with a few setbacks, and in general become easily irritable and childlike for a couple of weeks now. It has to do with cognitive dissonance, or in simpler (more experiential terms) what I thought was real in some sense turned out to be  an illusion, and I am mad at myself about that thesedays.

Anyways, during these times, my family has been so supportive even when I rant irrationally around them, and have tiny tantrums.
I was wondering yesterday about the capacity it would take to be loving and nurturing towards me, even when I am doing absolutely nothing these days to be "deserving" of the affection. I was admiring their capacity for remaining calm and loving and introspecting about my "transactional" nature even when it comes to personal relationships in subtle ways a lot of times.

Who I am currently would not be able to be so loving around someone acting the way I am acting these days. While I have been generally staying away from participating in the forum due to lack of equanimity to contribute in wholesome way here, your post resonated about how having a family, children whom you are kind of "programmed to love" from an evolutionary standpoint can help you develop on the spiritual side as well.

I was wondering if I am not cut out at all for family life in general, can I be a "good" father to a son acting like me in future etc? and I realised that being a "good" parent or a "good" spouse is spiritually demanding as well.

Something somehow connected here and due to my experiences condensed through your post, I have a little different view of what it means to be a part of family, and how meditation/ spiritual growth can affect it.

Thanks and regards,
Siddharth
And what is good, Phædrus,
And what is not good...
Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?

Nicky

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Re: The process of letting go of desires? How to
« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2020, 12:50:42 AM »
"this statement, which was the bulk of your post, refers not to adulterous relationships, but issues associated with he traditional family.

I posted about adultery for you, as an example, and not for myself.

To me, it seemed to promote the idea that the 'dramas' of family life were somehow at odds with leading a spiritual life.

Well, if my children got brainwashed by the Cultural Marxist mass-media and wanted to take drugs, watch porn or have sex before marriage or get injected with compulsory Covid vaccines for all their lives or get conscripted into the next army for the next big war, yes, that would trouble me as a parent.

Again, I come back to the same point I have been making on numerous other posts: Are we here on this forum to discuss the route to some sort of monastic lifestyle, in which case fine, and I take your point; or are we just a group of people who work hard for a living and deal with the travails of life to the best of our ability, who are looking for some sort of balance...a means of finding peace and clarity and coping with normal stress and anxiety...through the practice of meditation?

Your comments remain unrelated to my answer for the other person. Your comment pertain to yourself and not to myself.

Take care. May your family be well & keep safe.  :)

dharma bum

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Re: The process of letting go of desires? How to
« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2020, 04:55:28 PM »
Quote
I was wondering if I am not cut out at all for family life in general, can I be a "good" father to a son acting like me in future etc? and I realised that being a "good" parent or a "good" spouse is spiritually demanding as well.

It is a hard question to answer. It is impossible to know if you would be good or not in a particular situation without first being in that situation. I know that being a parent isn't easy and yet millions of people around the world do a pretty good job of it even in very poor conditions.

In some ways it is good to have someone else to worry about. That doesn't give you enough time to worry about yourself.
Mostly ignorant

Siddharth

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Re: The process of letting go of desires? How to
« Reply #39 on: November 19, 2020, 01:58:33 AM »
In some ways it is good to have someone else to worry about. That doesn't give you enough time to worry about yourself.

A lot of people see it as a con. Specially women in traditional households. over time, not being able to worry about yourself can turn people bitter and resentful and less capable of taking care of others as well.

But in the sense that you are saying, perhaps it means that people become less "ambitious" when they have family to take care of, and are majorly concerned with the needs, rather than the wants, as that is all they realistically have time for given family responsibilities. That inadvertantly leads them to spirituality and the path of contentment within, rather than seeking external achievements...
« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 02:00:21 AM by Siddharth »
And what is good, Phædrus,
And what is not good...
Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?

dharma bum

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Re: The process of letting go of desires? How to
« Reply #40 on: November 19, 2020, 03:11:03 AM »
Yes Siddharth, you might be right. I'm not very sure about what I said about worrying about others being better than worrying about yourself. It's all worry - what difference does it make if it's about yourself or others.
Mostly ignorant

raushan

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Re: The process of letting go of desires? How to
« Reply #41 on: November 20, 2020, 02:21:45 AM »

It has to do with cognitive dissonance, or in simpler (more experiential terms) what I thought was real in some sense turned out to be  an illusion, and I am mad at myself about that thesedays.



I have been in that state of "cognitive dissonance". It's not a pleasant state and can cause a lot of misunderstanding.  But It's a good learning experience once we come out of it.

Dhamma

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Re: The process of letting go of desires? How to
« Reply #42 on: November 24, 2020, 03:11:44 AM »
While I don't agree with the way I was talked to on a Buddhist forum, I let it go now.  There was some serious misunderstandings, but that is okay. The past is no longer real. Though my intentions were clean, there was too much zealous "These are the Buddha's teachings", which doesn't work well on this forum as it does on others. There are secular Buddhists on here, and I have to respect that, even though I disagree very much with some of their ideas. We must find common ground, no matter what kind of Buddhism we are practicing. This forum is not a hardcore Mahayana or Theravada forum, and so I respect that. Before, I wasn't so much, to be honest. It wasn't so much my ego that was the problem, but rather a lack of respect for the overall ethos of this forum. I apologize for that.

I will resort more to posting what prominent Buddhist teachers say on certain subjects without interjecting my "I" towards anyone, as if I am preaching. So I don't see myself posting too much as talk is cheap, but when I do, I will relay messages from those who know the teachings well, or so it seems.  I don't think they will be secular Buddhist teachers, of course, but something that can bring clarity for everyone, even those who only practice secular mindfulness.

With much love and peace,

Dhamma :)
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 03:39:12 AM by Dhamma »
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Middleway

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Re: The process of letting go of desires? How to
« Reply #43 on: November 24, 2020, 03:15:43 AM »
Welcome back Dhamma.
Take everything I say with a grain of salt.

Dhamma

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Re: The process of letting go of desires? How to
« Reply #44 on: November 24, 2020, 03:41:05 AM »
Welcome back Dhamma.

My deepest wish for happiness for you.

Love,
Dhamma
You are already Buddha

May we see clearly the emptiness of all phenomena

 

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