Author Topic: Passion and sexual thoughts while serving a Vipassana course  (Read 912 times)

stillpointdancer

  • stillpointdancer
  • Member
  • Retired teacher, deepening understanding of Dharma
    • Insight meditation
    • Exploring the results of 30 years of meditating
Re: Passion and sexual thoughts while serving a Vipassana course
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2020, 11:27:23 AM »
Desires are part of being human, and so is dealing with them. Most of the times desires can't be fulfilled inasmuch as they are thoughts fuelled by our history and our hormones, mental constructions arising from our own minds. I think the Buddha worked with our human side by allowing us to see them for what they are, things from within ourselves, and as such they can be dealt with accordingly. No need to give up or to give in. There is a middle way to living our lives.
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

dharma bum

  • Member
  • Certified Zen Master (second degree black belt)
    • vipassana
Re: Passion and sexual thoughts while serving a Vipassana course
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2020, 02:01:25 PM »
http://hardcorezen.info/desire-and-happiness/2955

I agree with spd. I also liked the take of Mr hardcore zen.
Mostly ignorant

raushan

  • Member
  • from India
    • S. N. Goenka switched to Samatha Forest Tradition
Re: Passion and sexual thoughts while serving a Vipassana course
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2020, 08:19:19 PM »

The stable or boundary is created by awareness about them being present and how they affect our lives, but at times also hard rules which limit us getting addicted to these desires, or these desires getting out of control.

The rules/boundaries/ stable will vary for everyone, based on where they are. For example, someone would feel okay being part of a polygamous but committed relationship, while someone might choose total abstinence from sexual activity. The key is not the exact rule per say but, awareness and control on our desires, which takes time and patience to cultivate.

While everyone seems to agree that repressing thoughts of any kind is not in line with the path, and that there is not 1 fixed way to act on them, it seems plenty clear to me that it is essential to be mindful of those thoughts and better to have some strategy/ moral compass/ ethical guideline as to what the best course of action is.

Some of us refer to suttas to get guidance on how to act, some try to figure out in other ways, but some line on the ground seems to help.
Laws of the land also help us guide our actions in a broad way as a society, but we are definitely looking for a more nuanced and non-enforciable way to live so that we might get closer to liberation. Reflection on that path is wholesome, guilt, not so.

Regards,
Siddharth

Hi Siddharth,

Well articulated. Yes, these are complex topics. Often there are no binary answers for these.

Middleway

  • Member
  • Just be a witness.
    • Vipassana as taught by Mr. Goenka - Switched to Shamatha
Re: Passion and sexual thoughts while serving a Vipassana course
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2020, 12:19:33 AM »
Suppose we don’t have eyes, ears, nose, tongue and the body for tactile sensations, then are we alive? Can the wisdom arise? We need these sense organs that make the contact and resulting experience possible. This is not wrong as long as there is no indulgence with senses which leads to craving. Sense organs can lead to craving but also facilitate for wisdom to arise.
Take everything I say with a grain of salt.

JAB2202

  • Member
    • Vipassana
Re: Passion and sexual thoughts while serving a Vipassana course
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2020, 08:04:17 PM »
Quote from: JAB2202

Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts with me. I contemplated on them.

Hello Jackie,

Well done for recognising where you cling, and for gaining insight that helped you not act as you may have before. This is like any "muscle" you can exercise and use to act in more wholesome ways going forward. "Practice makes perfect".

I am sorry your thread became derailed a little bit.

Kindest regards,

Matthew

Hello Matthew,

thank you for your kind answer. No need to apologize for your discussion, its interesting for me too. It also shows me that passion, might be, our strongest, most difficult to overcome desire. We could see that in the world every day. In my past it has also led me to a lot of suffering. In my mother tounge there is another expresssion for passion, which means translated to English, "creating suffering."
I just felt, its weird that its always so present while serving in a Vipassana course, the place where I would expect it at last.

In your other post you mentioned the "middle length discourses" of the Buddha, I would be very interested in discussing them here in the forum.
With Metta,
Jackie
« Last Edit: November 08, 2020, 03:31:45 AM by Matthew »
If you can't do it with the mind, do it with the body.

Dhamma

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  • May we all fulfill our deepest wish for happiness
    • Zen/Tibetan/Theravada
Re: Passion and sexual thoughts while serving a Vipassana course
« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2020, 02:21:45 AM »
Wow - I am impressed with some of the answers on here.

My answer was based on Yuttadhammo Bikkhu, whose words I repeat. Even though I don't agree with everything that comes out of his mouth (still love him), he explains sexual desire so well. Many Tibetan Buddhists do as well....and Zen/Chan/Seon....LOL.

Happiness is not found in fulfilling desires.

You are not wrong for having non-violent sex (unless cheating, etc.). Sexual thoughts - never feel guilty about them. Silly. Absurd. Whe never feel guilty about what is thought in our crazy monkey minds.

This has nothing to do with sexual desire. But a certain somebody did something mean to two family members. I had obsessive thoughts all day.  So imagine what I was thinking in my crazy monkey mind? LOL.

All is well. It is only that it would be with a more pure mind. We create stories and believe our silly minds. That's when trouble starts.  I am feeling better now. I never have to be a slave to my silly mind, do I?

May I finish with a saying I created:

Why do we build castles so high in the sky? Why oh why? So they can fall down on us and crush us to death.
You are already Buddha

May we see clearly the emptiness of all phenomena

dharma bum

  • Member
  • Certified Zen Master (second degree black belt)
    • vipassana
Re: Passion and sexual thoughts while serving a Vipassana course
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2020, 09:25:56 PM »
Quote
May I finish with a saying I created:

Why do we build castles so high in the sky? Why oh why? So they can fall down on us and crush us to death.

I have a similar saying.

People say follow your dreams. If I follow my dreams, I will end up in prison pretty quickly. :)
Mostly ignorant

Dhamma

  • Member
  • May we all fulfill our deepest wish for happiness
    • Zen/Tibetan/Theravada
Re: Passion and sexual thoughts while serving a Vipassana course
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2020, 01:02:01 AM »
Quote
May I finish with a saying I created:

Why do we build castles so high in the sky? Why oh why? So they can fall down on us and crush us to death.

I have a similar saying.

People say follow your dreams. If I follow my dreams, I will end up in prison pretty quickly. :)

Wow - isn't that the truth?!

Peace and enlightenment.

 :)
You are already Buddha

May we see clearly the emptiness of all phenomena

Nicky

  • Member
    • Pali
Re: Passion and sexual thoughts while serving a Vipassana course
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2020, 10:20:33 AM »
It led me to having sexual phantasies during meditation in the course. Normally I am not experiencing strong sexual desire and I am quite happily married, therefore I feel somehow guilty to have had this thoughts which are still continuing at home.

Any suggestions how to deal with this apart from observing it?

You should reflect upon the thoughts with wisdom. Obviously the content of the sexual thoughts are unbeneficial & delusional because the content of thoughts transgress your marriage commitment &, if acted out, would lead to great harm. The fact your mind feels guilty is a safety or protective mechanism. Most people say "there is nothing wrong with the sexual thoughts" but "feeling guilty is bad". I say the opposite. There is nothing wrong with feeling guilty and plenty wrong with the sexual thoughts. 

You were in a situation of solitude at the retreat and the sexual vibrations arose. It was a situation or opportunity to reflect on the benefits & purpose of sexual fidelity both in your marriage and for others.

 :)

Quote
Monks, these two bright principles protect the world. What are the two? Shame and fear of wrongdoing. If, monks, these two bright principles did not protect the world, there would not be discerned respect for mother or maternal aunt or maternal uncle's wife or a teacher's wife or the wives of other honored persons, and the world would have fallen into promiscuity, as with goats, sheep, chickens, pigs, dogs and jackals. But as these two bright principles protect the world, there is discerned respect for mother... and the wives of other honored persons.

Lokapala Sutta: The Bright Protectors

JAB2202

  • Member
    • Vipassana
Re: Passion and sexual thoughts while serving a Vipassana course
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2020, 10:42:14 AM »
Hello Nicky,

thank you so much for your thoughts.
Interesting way to think about this! I can relate to that very much.

With Metta,
Jackie
If you can't do it with the mind, do it with the body.

 

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