Author Topic: Struggling - no equanimity  (Read 2571 times)

Sarahpro

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Re: Struggling - no equanimity
« Reply #75 on: July 26, 2020, 11:47:23 PM »
I do know the answer. It’s just....like I have this fear that I’ve resisted for months now, so ideally accepting myself would be accepting the fear. If I slipped and lost equanimity, then even if I am allowing myself to be me, I am still resisting the fear...I feel like unless I come into equanimity I am resisting myself
Maybe this is just an excuse

Matthew

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Re: Struggling - no equanimity
« Reply #76 on: July 26, 2020, 11:49:23 PM »
It's just an excuse.

Accepting yourself is accepting everything without judgement.

Just so it xxx
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Sarahpro

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Re: Struggling - no equanimity
« Reply #77 on: July 27, 2020, 12:53:50 AM »
Fine haha. It isn’t gonna take away from the suffering but ok

Thanisaro85

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Re: Struggling - no equanimity
« Reply #78 on: July 27, 2020, 01:25:58 AM »


But it won’t feel like you want it to feel, that’s for sure! Joy will come by, but when and for how long, that is not for us/you to decide, it is dependent upon conditions.


Sarahpro,

I wanted to add on to Alex's msg above...

Whenever the joy comes by, do make sure you remember this mental states, these will be the motivations for you to believe, that mental phenomenons come and go, and it is possible for one to regain joy again, be it better or slightly off than your past. Grab the chances to remember the state.
A Mind Unshaken, when touches by worldy matter, sorrowless, secure and dustless, this is the ultimate great blessing~ Mangala Sutta

Becker333

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Re: Struggling - no equanimity
« Reply #79 on: July 27, 2020, 01:38:27 AM »
Am loving this forum.
Just to add . I wish to say i have really seen alot change in my life with meditation.  Didn't know it would be this helpful when i started . And to be sincere,  for me i wouldn't have gotten this far to where i am if i didn't get some help on meditating . Just follow the link I'll put below and discover the true wonders of your potential. 

Sarahpro

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Re: Struggling - no equanimity
« Reply #80 on: July 27, 2020, 05:51:49 AM »
Thanks for the suggestion, not sure if meditation is appropriate, I am already aware of what is there.

Yeah it’s really hard to be with myself without judgment...it’s always easy to say....
Went out for dinner with some friends and so disengaged, nothing to say, no joy of connection, constant thoughts of waiting to feel better, disconnected from body, just feel like a zombie
Did have an insight though that I wouldn’t have asked for this experience if I didn’t know I could get out of it...but well I DONT know that I can get out of it, it literally feels impossible, I know that’s a thought but I am caving into myself more and more....nothing stops it...

Matthew , didn’t realize you RAN the forum. I feel much more inclined to trust you, lol.
As for contacting the present moment...that’s the thing, my awareness of body’s sensations is suuuuper poor, I don’t believe it’s a matter of practice I believe it’s been a progressive result of me being dissociated from my body. And as for the breath, again, the breath is all I have but there is grasping behind it. So the present moment for me is just non stop grasping.

I just don’t see how this could ever end. I am constantly aware, yet I lack eqUnimity. Constantly aware of constant grasping and aversion. No breaks. Generating misery constantly. Longing for love. And the grip is only tightening. I long for liberation but the longing keeps it away. Even the breath I don’t feel I can rest in. Don’t have rest in any thing in this present moment.
Like how long must this go on for? What am I waiting for ? I have been waiting for 4 months and things only intensifying and contracting
Also my dead ego is really distressing me. Ego as in healthy ego structure. I have plenty of ego, judging and evaluating. But that’s the issue...since I dissolved my healthy ego ie my sense of boundaries and time, my unhealthy ego is working hard to try to protect me, meanwhile getting in the way of my ability to feel connection .
« Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 06:23:40 AM by Sarahpro »

Matthew

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Re: Struggling - no equanimity
« Reply #81 on: July 27, 2020, 10:42:55 AM »
Matthew , didn’t realize you RAN the forum. I feel much more inclined to trust you, lol.


Sarah, I set up the forum many years ago. Now there is a great team doing the managing so I can take a well earned break. Middleway, Siddharth, and Raushan are keeping the wheels on the bus.

Don't put me on any pedestal. I'm walking the path just like everyone else. Yet over the years there's not much I haven't come across I guess, including people trapped as you are, unable to see their way out.

Quote
As for contacting the present moment...that’s the thing, my awareness of body’s sensations is suuuuper poor, I don’t believe it’s a matter of practice I believe it’s been a progressive result of me being dissociated from my body.


OK, some background: I was super dissociated when I found meditation. The calm abiding instructions on the homepage are incredibly effective at reconnecting body and mind, at reversing dissociation. You have to forget what you've learned or think you know, and just do them.

The focus is on the physical feelings created in the body by the process of breathing, and on calming the body-mind with each breath in and each breath out. It is a whole body awareness, no following the breath, no nose meditation, no scanning etc.

It works to kick start the parasympathetic nervous system which puts you in a state of "rest and digest" where things calm and progressively your ability to feel, including emotions, becomes refined.

From all you've said you are trapped in the sympathetic "fight or flight" mode at the moment. You use words and stories as a defence mechanism. You're constantly on high alert, and see no way out because you've been thinking this stuff in circles for so long.

Through thinking you probably won't get far. Through reconnecting body and mind with that practice things will change. You'll feel again, you'll begin to loosen the grip of mind.

I've seen this happen so many times Sarah. So, if you trust me, even a little bit, please download the pdf and try the experiment for a couple of weeks. If you follow that technique even this should show you results that give you confidence to continue.

All the stories you are using as a defence mechanism take huge energy to maintain. Turn some of that towards this practice grounded in peace, nurturing calm, connecting body and mind. It will do you more good than writing down anything further about how you see things through the web of words you have woven to keep yourself stuck.

~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Sarahpro

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Re: Struggling - no equanimity
« Reply #82 on: July 27, 2020, 05:23:11 PM »
Thank you...but we’ll I do have some excuses for that...I am already full body Aware. Before this happened I was aware of subtle sensations in my body wherever I went. And as love/equanimity diminished, I watched my awareness become more and more gross. And so now even if I try to get back in my body I still don’t feel safe in there, normally my heart is home, but without it, I am just reacting to whatever sensations I feel...and I am actually aware of my heart all the time, the biggest feeler, but it’s just empty. and again the breath is not home either, I am hyper aware of it all the time but it doesn’t feel natural, passive... seriously worried about that one. I’ll bet you haven’t seen that one on the forums? I think it happened because of the ego death- the barrier between me and ALL my neuroses was shot down. I learned one time that the breath is the LAST object a yogi confronts- the craving and clinging he faces. But this one came up for me a bit too early. And obviously since I am not ready to surrender to death, I started grasping. Like I mentioned that beautiful moment of love and equanimity that brought me out of the dark last time, a) I wasn’t expecting it or looking for it and b) I was focusing on the breath in an intimate encounter.....sooooo ya in my opinion I am fkd. In my therapists opinion I am not. Will talk to her about that today hahah

About the idea of our experiences being a result of karma, that really got to me. I spent the last 2 years working SO HARD to constantly be aware of karma that was arising, and processing and releasing it everywhere I went. Fear, grief, anger, bliss etc. Kundalini. And now what do I do if I am just drowning in it, reacting to it.
I know I’m supposed to move on but really wish I had Listened to my therapist back in April and taken some meds then, I was a lot more stable and had a lot more equanimity to work with. Right now I’m just wAtching myself grasp and grasp, waiting for salvation, knowing it can only come with surrender, knowing I cannot surrender if even my breath involves grasping now. Are you annoyed yet. Lol
« Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 06:14:26 PM by Sarahpro »

Matthew

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Re: Struggling - no equanimity
« Reply #83 on: July 27, 2020, 06:41:39 PM »
Quote
...that’s the thing, my awareness of body’s sensations is suuuuper poor,

Quote
I am already full body Aware.


Sarah,

Do you see the contradiction in your own words? It is blatant. You are lying to yourself due to over identification with words and stories.

I bring this to your attention so that you may reflect upon it.

All your defences are words and stories. There will be no healing there for you. You have to choose to continue suffering or to move beyond. If you choose to move beyond the members here can help. If you choose suffering we can't. It really is that straightforward.

With metta,

Matthew

~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Sarahpro

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Re: Struggling - no equanimity
« Reply #84 on: July 27, 2020, 06:52:17 PM »
Ok...so you Think I should let go of all these stories no matter how subjectively real they are and how much they concern me?
I know what you mean, by full body aware I mean aware of whatever is there to be felt, which at the moment is not a lot. But if it’s able to be felt, I feel it. Eg samskaras etc.

And to move beyond , I guess I just don’t really know what that would look like, I don’t know where to abide if not my thoughts. I don’t know where the healing is. In my body yes maybe but again I am just reacting to whatever is there.

Alex

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Re: Struggling - no equanimity
« Reply #85 on: July 27, 2020, 07:09:20 PM »
Ok...so you Think I should let go of all these stories no matter how subjectively real they are and how much they concern me?
I know what you mean, by full body aware I mean aware of whatever is there to be felt, which at the moment is not a lot. But if it’s able to be felt, I feel it. Eg samskaras etc.

And to move beyond , I guess I just don’t really know what that would look like, I don’t know where to abide if not my thoughts. I don’t know where the healing is. In my body yes maybe but again I am just reacting to whatever is there.

I will let Matthew respond, but I just wanted to say that when I read this, it feels like a different, more real part of you is responding (as opposed to the mind fabrications).
And no, I'm not annoyed, I care too much about your wellbeing. Be well  ;)

Alex

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Re: Struggling - no equanimity
« Reply #86 on: July 27, 2020, 07:37:48 PM »
All that needs to be said has been said, but I do feel tempted to respond  ;D
... using your own words

When this happens:

... but again I am just reacting to whatever is there.

You do this:

let go of all these stories reactions no matter how subjectively real they are and how much they concern me

;)

Middleway

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Re: Struggling - no equanimity
« Reply #87 on: July 27, 2020, 07:57:53 PM »
Hi Sarahpro,

Either you are really stuck at your thought level and cannot move beyond or you are trolling the sangha  here.

I will give you the benefit of doubt and offer the following to contemplate on. No need to respond to me.

1. If you don’t change direction, you will end up where you are going.
2. What is your original face before you were born?
3. When you can do nothing, what can you do?
4. What is the sound of one hand clapping?

Please contemplate on these 4 points thoroughly and report back to the sangha in a week on your findings.

Warm regards,

Middleway
Take everything I say with a grain of salt.

Matthew

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Re: Struggling - no equanimity
« Reply #88 on: July 27, 2020, 08:30:37 PM »
Ok...so you Think I should let go of all these stories no matter how subjectively real they are and how much they concern me?


During meditation, yes. By doing so you will develop the calm, concentration, and insight needed to discern that which is true from that which is false, that which you need to deal with from those things you can discard as mental confections.

Quote
I know what you mean, by full body aware I mean aware of whatever is there to be felt, which at the moment is not a lot. But if it’s able to be felt, I feel it. Eg samskaras etc.


Start where you are. If you can't feel a lot that's fine. Feeling a bit is better than nothing. As you practice according to the instructions from the homepage your ability to feel will increase, but in a very controlled manner: the mind will not let you feel things you are not ready to deal with.

Regarding words such as "Samskara" these are mental confections - they are not real, they are abstract, and where you are now, they are best dropped.

Quote
And to move beyond , I guess I just don’t really know what that would look like, I don’t know where to abide if not my thoughts. I don’t know where the healing is. In my body yes maybe but again I am just reacting to whatever is there.

Healing is in body and mind . It is in reconnecting the two . This practice from the homepage brings the two together. Abiding in your thoughts alone is abiding in delusion. You can stay there is you wish, though personally I would suggest it is a very unwise choice.

That doesn't mean all your thoughts are delusional, but that you need to calm down enough to realise which thoughts need further reflection, and those which can be discarded.

I do not doubt that many of your thoughts require calm, careful contemplation. But the edifice of stories you have created is woven from truths, half truths, beliefs, and self deceptions.

You need to step back far enough to start discerning the difference. The only way you will achieve this is through years and years of psychotherapy or a few months of basic meditation combined with psychotherapy. Your money, your life, your choice.

Much metta,

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Sarahpro

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Re: Struggling - no equanimity
« Reply #89 on: July 27, 2020, 09:14:50 PM »
Ok. I guess I try to make my life a meditation and always be aware. Being more meditative would just make me more sensitive to what created the destabilization, no? I remember back in April, my mind was more subtle and balanced than it is now, but the fear came up with my healer and she told me to just be with it and my ego would just NOT be with it. So I can’t expect it to happen now. Further I don’t believe in my capacity to heal on my own because like i said my heart feels totally empty... I have not been recommended meditation by anyone else.... I just hmmmm I don’t know. I want to trust you but due to my constant heightened awareness and lack of equanimity I cannot see how meditation could be anything except destabilizing. I am waiting to heal first- somehow- to have a breakthrough and let in love - and then be able to go into the sensations.
I know that obsessing about all the things worsening- my ego, social withdrAwAl, emptiness etc, I know that’s the antithesis of being meditative ahah. But It really is hard to ignore. I have to keep trying I guess.
And about this healing business...therapy isn’t even working. When I was a bit more relaxed, I did have a couple of really profound sessions with some huge releases, and I felt kinda more like myself afterwards, but then the fear came back and only retraumatized me and left me feeling empty again. This is why it’s hard to see a way out. And now my ego is so much stronger and less able to relax and allow in some healing light...I know that’s what the practice is about, to just ignore the ego. I do trust in you guys and my therapist now to just ignore my thinking. But I really hope I can find that anchor to focus on that is not my thoughts ... that release.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 09:20:03 PM by Sarahpro »

Sarahpro

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Re: Struggling - no equanimity
« Reply #90 on: July 27, 2020, 09:40:11 PM »
Ok I am seeing now that if I try to distance myself from all this bullshit mess in my mind even a little bit then I can heal. Just had a huge crying fit which shows me I’m not as “hardened “ as I thought I was compared with day April..buuuut ya and I saw I really Really need to stop thinking so much and be patient....
« Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 10:00:03 PM by Sarahpro »

Matthew

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Re: Struggling - no equanimity
« Reply #91 on: July 27, 2020, 10:04:55 PM »
Ok I am seeing now that if I try to distance myself from all this bullshit mess in my mind even a little bit then I can heal

Good. This is a beneficial insight. A powerful insight.

Now go and read or download the calm abiding instructions and use them. Please do not come back with lots of words and stories until you have tried it for a week or more. Maybe you will seek clarification - if needed, please feel free to ask, but other than that, all the stories you have tied yourself up in knots with are completely irrelevant.

This is a meditation forum, not a "not meditation" forum.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Sarahpro

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Re: Struggling - no equanimity
« Reply #92 on: July 27, 2020, 11:19:41 PM »
Ok nothing to lose at this point , haha fine I will try.
ONE CONCERN though is the dissolution of my ego structure. Have you seen that with others as well? The reason my shadow part of my ego is fighting so hard? The reason the fear persists so intensely? The reason I haven’t been able to surrender ?

Matthew

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Re: Struggling - no equanimity
« Reply #93 on: July 27, 2020, 11:39:09 PM »
Sarah,

Believe me, your ego has not dissolved. We wouldn't be having such a protracted discussion if it had. It may be out of balance, yet that balance can be restored.

You know what to do. Read the instructions on the homepage. Stick to them. Don't alter them according to your preference or previous experiences. If you do that, it's ego friking with you, trying to ensure failure. So, just do what it says on the can. Questions? Ask - just be sure they are related to the simple practicalities, not these stories you have.

You will benefit from this experiment if you can stick to the rules.

Much metta,

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Sarahpro

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Re: Struggling - no equanimity
« Reply #94 on: July 27, 2020, 11:52:36 PM »
Well....it fully did...like Ya when it happened all the chatter was gone like concepts, time, etc.... I mean yes it would not matter at all if I had equanimity but I worry about the pursuit of equanimity with an imbalanced structure
But I should probably stop
« Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 11:55:27 PM by Sarahpro »

Matthew

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Re: Struggling - no equanimity
« Reply #95 on: July 27, 2020, 11:56:34 PM »
Yeah, you need to stop talking and start practicing. Otherwise this discussion is pointless.

Much metta,

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Matthew

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Re: Struggling - no equanimity
« Reply #96 on: July 28, 2020, 01:26:27 AM »
Well....it fully did...like Ya when it happened all the chatter was gone like concepts, time, etc.... I mean yes it would not matter at all if I had equanimity but I worry about the pursuit of equanimity with an imbalanced structure
But I should probably stop

OK, I understand this now I believe. What you experienced was not an ego dissolution as one might discuss in terms of the path of meditation.

It sounds much more like an episode of dissociative derealisation or depersonalisation.

So, do the practice, but with the main focus being relaxation and calm. No force. You need to start feeling safe in your body again. This will need to be gentle, full of self care, and done slowly. So, don't push yourself, and don't hide from yourself either.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Sarahpro

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Re: Struggling - no equanimity
« Reply #97 on: July 28, 2020, 02:15:59 AM »
Ok. What do you think about the idea of surrender? Part of me is convinced that this is the only way- to not feel so trapped in my ego
I guess since I do not know obviously HOW to surrender, this means just allowing myself to be as I am..
I worked my butt off the last 2 years surrendering my ego, and that’s what felt great, that’s what brought me love and peace...problem is I cannot control how I surrender...
And yes it is derealization serious derealization. The dissolution of my personality. If i didn’t do it, I could be healed now. I know it’s all words but I believe it is the reason why the shadow part of my ego (judgments, inferiority, superiority, hardening of heart) got so strong- to try to protect me. I know this is all just more concepts though and they are impeding me from my goal. But I feel like my mind is to find any logic it can for why i cannot reattain love and peace. So far for 4 months it has proven to be true but mind you i was not doing the best things- I was forcefully trying to open my heart, and I was feeding this fear of things worsening.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2020, 03:47:54 AM by Sarahpro »

Sarahpro

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Re: Struggling - no equanimity
« Reply #98 on: July 28, 2020, 04:33:33 AM »
Also this afternoon I was in hysterical tears for like half an hour. Is it too much to expect that this could have been the moment of transcendence, of love, rapture ? Lol
Every time I cry like that I feel like my self for once. But then I just go back into emptiness, into my exhausting ego.
I believe there is a lot of love and light on this planet at the moment. I believe it is causing me to lose balance of my mind- making the fear more intense and therefore I react unstably - but I also believe it is causing these sudden rapturous tears, like whenever I go out into nature.
I just want to get back on the path but my mind will not let in love..

Sarahpro

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Re: Struggling - no equanimity
« Reply #99 on: July 28, 2020, 05:51:18 AM »
And about the ego death/derealization thing: it was literally like I’d just taken mushrooms or weed. Chatter completely dissolved. Heightened emotions and perceptions. Felt like Buddha/Jesus/god. sense of time WAs gone. I have yet to meet someone on forums who I knew experienced this as well.

 

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