Author Topic: Helping others meditate - how much is too much?  (Read 406 times)

chin

  • Member
    • Goenka
Helping others meditate - how much is too much?
« on: January 03, 2020, 10:30:50 AM »
Dear Sangha,

Here is a question I've been struggling with recently. First a little background. My wife has been struggling with depression for the past couple of years. It took a long time to get her to seek professional help and then even longer to get her to consider medication. However, now with medication and regular "talk" therapy, she has been doing significantly better in the last couple of months.

Now, coming to meditation, I have encouraged her to meditate along with me in my daily sitting and after some initial resistance, she's been gladly doing so for the past year or so. Even her therapist has asked me to encourage this. However, although she happily joins me in my sitting, I never see her taking any initiative about her own practice. This concerns me because a) if she were genuinely practicing, she would start to see some benefits and that would reflect in her desire to pursue this more on her own and b) I don't want to keep pushing this as "my agenda" on her because that creates stress for me (in not letting go enough).

Having said this, she does say that she benefits from the sittings, especially the metta meditations. It's just that it doesn't reflect in her attitude of apathy toward her own practice. (Of course, with her depression, she finds it hard to not be apathetic towards anything - so we could just chalk it down to that.)

So my question then to the Sangha is - what is the wisest approach here? Do I continue encouraging her to join me despite not seeing any intrinsic interest from her? Do I ask her to de-couple her sitting from mine and let go? Is there a new way to see this that I'm missing? Something else?

Thanks,

stillpointdancer

  • stillpointdancer
  • Member
  • Retired teacher, deepening understanding of Dharma
    • Insight meditation
    • Exploring the results of 30 years of meditating
Re: Helping others meditate - how much is too much?
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2020, 11:50:16 AM »
Meditation sounds like the worst possible course of action to inflict on someone with depression, especially if you are dictating what type of meditation someone has to take part in. If you have to make someone meditate then it should at least be a relaxing, fun-type practice.
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

Dharmic Tui

  • Member
  • Something
    • Some Theravada, some secular
Re: Helping others meditate - how much is too much?
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2020, 06:09:51 PM »
I think if meditation is being administered to someone then it likely won't get much further than a relaxation tool. The practitioner must have their own motivation and ownership of their practice for meaningful insight to occur.

Has your wife ever attending a course or retreat on her own?

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Staff
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: Helping others meditate - how much is too much?
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2020, 10:19:58 PM »
Quote
Is there a new way to see this that I'm missing?

She is practicing with you and benefiting. You could continue inviting her to join you and let go of any expectation that she do more. Asking her to "de-couple" her practice from yours would seem counterproductive - it may be perceived as rejection. Best just sit on your butt and get on with it, be thankful when she joins you, and let go if she doesn't sometimes.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

dharma bum

  • Moderator
  • Certified Zen Master (second degree black belt)
    • vipassana
Re: Helping others meditate - how much is too much?
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2020, 10:51:25 PM »
Yes, the fact that she finds metta helpful means something. I know when I feel down metta helps me.

IMO she couldn't sit in meditation for more than 10 minutes daily day after day if it's a bother for her.

She didn't come into meditation the same way that you did, so it might not be reasonable to expect the same kind of desire for it that you have. If she says she benefits from her sittings, why not take her word for it?
Mostly ignorant

chin

  • Member
    • Goenka
Re: Helping others meditate - how much is too much?
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2020, 08:55:55 AM »
Thanks a lot for your thoughts.

She definitely doesn't see it as a bother or something being inflicted on her. It's just that she doesn't seem to have the hunger for the insights available through meditation, especially the kind that I think would be helpful for her to manage her depression.

Like Dharmic Tui said, it definitely looks like she finds it relaxing and that's all. I am going to explore letting go of expectations of her progress on the path.

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Staff
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: Helping others meditate - how much is too much?
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2020, 01:13:45 PM »
chin,

A question: do you ever go walking in nature with your wife?

This can be very healing, and meditative. Just taking in the sights, sounds and smells is proven to be a good grounding technique, and there is research showing it can have profound positive effects on depression.

Might be worth taking up as another activity if you don't already. Letting go of expectations is a wise and wholesome choice. It will also change her perception of what is happening - and may make space for insight to grow. Just don't expect it!

I wish you both well.

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

dharma bum

  • Moderator
  • Certified Zen Master (second degree black belt)
    • vipassana
Re: Helping others meditate - how much is too much?
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2020, 03:15:22 PM »
Also from what I can tell, she does expect you to take the lead in the meditation sessions. There is nothing wrong with it. I find the situation quite positive on the whole. I've not been clinically diagnosed as depressed but like everyone I have down moments. At such times, just getting through the day takes all my mental resources so it is reasonable to expect her to not have a lot of independent drive for meditation. In general, sitting quietly and letting the mind and body relax has zero downside.
Mostly ignorant

stillpointdancer

  • stillpointdancer
  • Member
  • Retired teacher, deepening understanding of Dharma
    • Insight meditation
    • Exploring the results of 30 years of meditating
Re: Helping others meditate - how much is too much?
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2020, 01:07:22 PM »
In general, sitting quietly and letting the mind and body relax has zero downside.

In my studies I have come across some research findings where teaching people to sit quietly and let the mind and body relax has led to unwanted side effects. Everyone reacts in a different way and things have a tendency to bubble to the surface unexpectedly.
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

Siddharth

  • Staff
    • unlearning, relearning and letting go
Re: Helping others meditate - how much is too much?
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2020, 04:58:01 PM »
In general, sitting quietly and letting the mind and body relax has zero downside.

In my studies I have come across some research findings where teaching people to sit quietly and let the mind and body relax has led to unwanted side effects. Everyone reacts in a different way and things have a tendency to bubble to the surface unexpectedly.

I agree. Facing the self can be very daunting for some people, and although useful in the long term(relative concept), can disrupt life in immediate circumstance.
And what is good, Phædrus,
And what is not good...
Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?

dharma bum

  • Moderator
  • Certified Zen Master (second degree black belt)
    • vipassana
Re: Helping others meditate - how much is too much?
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2020, 07:31:37 PM »
Quote
In my studies I have come across some research findings where teaching people to sit quietly and let the mind and body relax has led to unwanted side effects. Everyone reacts in a different way and things have a tendency to bubble to the surface unexpectedly.

Even for short durations? If that's the case, thanks for mentioning that.

I would think sitting quietly is like taking a short nap, or a short walk, or spending some time in the garden.
Mostly ignorant

chin

  • Member
    • Goenka
Re: Helping others meditate - how much is too much?
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2020, 06:43:33 AM »
A question: do you ever go walking in nature with your wife?

We have tried this to some beneficial effect, but getting to "nature" is not very easy where I live - it takes a little bit of planning ahead and not something we can incorporate very easily into our daily schedule. But I will definitely try and do this more often now.

Thanks to everyone again for all your thoughtful contributions to this discussion.

Siddharth

  • Staff
    • unlearning, relearning and letting go
Re: Helping others meditate - how much is too much?
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2020, 08:50:36 AM »
A question: do you ever go walking in nature with your wife?

We have tried this to some beneficial effect, but getting to "nature" is not very easy where I live - it takes a little bit of planning ahead and not something we can incorporate very easily into our daily schedule. But I will definitely try and do this more often now.

Thanks to everyone again for all your thoughtful contributions to this discussion.

I feels just spending more alone time, say a walk early morning/ late at night, can help.
A feeling of someone genuinely investing in you at your worst can help people get out of depression, and develop a less gloomy perspective of the world..

With good wishes,
Siddharth
And what is good, Phædrus,
And what is not good...
Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?

stillpointdancer

  • stillpointdancer
  • Member
  • Retired teacher, deepening understanding of Dharma
    • Insight meditation
    • Exploring the results of 30 years of meditating
Re: Helping others meditate - how much is too much?
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2020, 11:45:52 AM »
Quote
In my studies I have come across some research findings where teaching people to sit quietly and let the mind and body relax has led to unwanted side effects. Everyone reacts in a different way and things have a tendency to bubble to the surface unexpectedly.

Even for short durations? If that's the case, thanks for mentioning that.

I would think sitting quietly is like taking a short nap, or a short walk, or spending some time in the garden.

The studies followed up where people have been taught to sit quietly with some basic meditation training. Perhaps 'Just Sitting' would be a better description. Part of a range of studies about bringing mindfulness into the workplace in the UK.
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

Dharmic Tui

  • Member
  • Something
    • Some Theravada, some secular
Re: Helping others meditate - how much is too much?
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2020, 04:30:57 PM »
From a practical standpoint Dharma Bum did say "in general". People with severe adverse reactions to just sitting are outliers that likely require more clinical assessment.

Thanisaro85

  • Member
  • Practising vipassana, to eliminate suffering.
    • Vipassana, wat amphawan Singburi, thailand
Re: Helping others meditate - how much is too much?
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2020, 04:52:29 AM »
I am borned with depression....even my kids are.

Perhap i could understand her feeling, people with depression tends to be less interested in anything else. So if she is not the type of person who like to meditate, you are lucky she did it with you.

I do agree with meditators here that meditation may have adverse reactions. I did, i have been doing meditations for long time, and i did not see myself walk out of depressions, and worse still, i developed anxiety and have anger management issue, explosive type.i kept wondering why...

It is only until recently, i saw one of reverend father pramote's( i did posted the link) talk, i then realised beside the sitting session, in daily activities, we do need to be "aware" of our thoughts, feelings, sensation too, not just during the sitting session. This awareness will "automatic" pull the conscious away, detaching the conscious away from the mind and body and not to suffer together. The dull and moody sensation will not go away, but the conscious that aware does not suffer together.

Another thing i did mentioned before, from a total calmness state during sitting session, to a normal daily activities, the body and mind can't handle the contrast, individual body and mind condition can varies.

Maybe you can do this as well, everytime after you 2 finished meditation and have a still and clear mind, visualise her image, wish her to be happy, free from mental suffering and may she developed wisdom. When the mind is not still, do not make a wish, it don't work.

For the body, avoid caffeine and commercial drinks. My experiences as a depression victim, after taking these things, my mood just goes all the way down, again, every individual is different.

Go listen to reverend father pramote's talk if possible. You may find something that is helpful.

Wish you all well.☺



A Mind Unshaken, when touches by worldy matter, sorrowless, secure and dustless, this is the ultimate great blessing~ Mangala Sutta

Katia

  • Member
    • none specific
Re: Helping others meditate - how much is too much?
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2020, 02:57:09 AM »
OP, in your posts in this thread I am seeing a lot of what you think she should be doing, what you think she should think about meditation, the benefits you think she should be seeing or striving for.  But this is about her, not about you.  Perhaps she does not see or experience meditation the same way you do, yet you seem to think she should do  both. 

One of the non-constructive things one can do for someone who is depressed is to tell them what treatment they should be pursuing or how they should be responding to that treatment, or implying they're not trying hard enough or not doing it right or aren't good enough at it or don't want it enough or in some other way are deficient-- this is neither productive nor healing (people with depression already tend to feel badly enough about themselves without other people confirming it).  You have not said you are educated in psychology or therapy, or if you are you have not said stated as much, forgive me for not knowing, but I don't think it's up to you to dictate what she "should" be doing or wanting to do to treat her depression if you are not her therapist or clinically-knowledgeable about the illness or its treatment.  Her illness and its treatment are not your responsibility, so don't put that on your own shoulders.

She meditates with you.  She says she likes it and derives some benefit from it.  Just let that be, without pushing her or thinking/telling her she's "not doing enough."  No one's experience, including with meditation, is like another's.  There are plenty of posts from people here who say they have been meditating for a long time and have seen no benefit, and plenty from people who say they started five minutes ago and wow their whole life has changed.  I've not seen replies suggesting either are wrong, just different.  Just as not every pharmaceutical treatment works the same for each person (or works at all for each person), nor will every non-pharmaceutical treatment.

And let's put this out there: depression is a clinical disease with physiological causes and symptoms.  It's not just being "sad" or "down"; it's not a moral failing or laziness; it's not something one just snaps out of; it's not "just in one's head"; it's not a simple thing to understand or treat.  That's why there are multifaceted treatments, including pharmaceutical.  Studies have found meditation can have some pretty interesting effects on the human brain and body, but meditation is unlikely to be the treatment that "cures" her depression.  It's just one tool in the bag.

I get it; it's not easy being in a relationship with someone who is depressed.  I've been there and done that, found it hard to talk about for years afterward.  It's not just hard on them, it's hard on you because it also disrupts your life.  For that reason, you also have an interest in her healing beyond just wanting to see someone you care about get better.  But in the end, it's not yours to dictate even though it also negatively affects you.  This would be a good practice in letting it go and knowing you can't control the path or outcome.  I also get that everyone wants to be "helpful" and try to suggest things a person with an illness perhaps has not tried, that might be the "holy grail" that fixes or eases their ailment, or even wants a person they feel isn't making enough of an effort to step up their game.  But if people who've been on the receiving end of this "advice" are to be believed, these "suggestions" are rarely actually helpful, and can actually be harmful.

If you want the "wisest approach," it's to support her... without judgment, lectures, assuming you know better than she does what is good for her, comment, goading, instructions about what she ought to be doing/feeling/wanting/attempting/etc.  Just be there for her and help her if she asks for it.  If it helps you to ask her what would be the most helpful way for you to be there for and help her, then by all means ask; everyone would like to instinctively know these things but that's just not usually how it works (knowing as if psychic what another person wants and needs) and that's okay.  If she wishes to broaden her meditation practice, be there for her.  If she wants to continue as she is, be there for her.  If she wants to stop meditating, be there for her.

dharma bum

  • Moderator
  • Certified Zen Master (second degree black belt)
    • vipassana
Re: Helping others meditate - how much is too much?
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2020, 04:00:42 AM »
Quote
One of the non-constructive things one can do for someone who is depressed is to tell them what treatment they should be pursuing or how they should be responding to that treatment, or implying they're not trying hard enough or not doing it right or aren't good enough at it or don't want it enough or in some other way are deficient-- this is neither productive nor healing (people with depression already tend to feel badly enough about themselves without other people confirming it).  You have not said you are educated in psychology or therapy, or if you are you have not said stated as much, forgive me for not knowing, but I don't think it's up to you to dictate what she "should" be doing or wanting to do to treat her depression if you are not her therapist or clinically-knowledgeable about the illness or its treatment.  Her illness and its treatment are not your responsibility, so don't put that on your own shoulders.

I didn't get a sense that Chin was dictating what she should be feeling or doing.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 04:24:33 AM by dharma bum »
Mostly ignorant

Thanisaro85

  • Member
  • Practising vipassana, to eliminate suffering.
    • Vipassana, wat amphawan Singburi, thailand
Re: Helping others meditate - how much is too much?
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2020, 08:53:28 AM »
OP, in your posts in this thread I am seeing a lot of what you think she should be doing, what you think she should think about meditation, the benefits you think she should be seeing or striving for.  But this is about her, not about you.  Perhaps she does not see or experience meditation the same way you do, yet you seem to think she should do  both. 

...
(mod edit: no need to quote entire posts)

Chin has asked the Sangha here for advises, all Sangha here base on their personal experiences to share their advises, while maybe not all advises can hit the nail on the head, I do not see that anything that is really harmful. And you are suppose to be one of the sangha. It is good that you had been there before and understand what Chin and his spouse had gone thru . But if this is not his job to seek method to help his spouse, who should?  further, then is it your job to give Chin your advise? Do you see where I am coming from?  I am not sure if you are aware that your post is judgemental and assuming?

And do remember that every depression victims, can behave differently, some are more independent and some are needy and heedless. Only Chin knows. So coming at this we should not judge whose advises can help or not. You make this statement below. Don't you see that all of us here including yourself is just like a individual pharmaceutical clinic?

 ((Just as not every pharmaceutical treatment works the same for each person (or works at all for each person), nor will every non-pharmaceutical treatment.))
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 03:08:25 AM by Matthew »
A Mind Unshaken, when touches by worldy matter, sorrowless, secure and dustless, this is the ultimate great blessing~ Mangala Sutta

stillpointdancer

  • stillpointdancer
  • Member
  • Retired teacher, deepening understanding of Dharma
    • Insight meditation
    • Exploring the results of 30 years of meditating
Re: Helping others meditate - how much is too much?
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2020, 11:09:03 AM »
Hi Thanisaro85. I think the problem with medical conditions like depression is that people don't know enough about it to give advice to people. To describe some sufferers as "needy and heedless" is to misunderstand what depression is. The place of meditation in depression is interesting, however. Studies such as this one indicate positive findings: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/B:COTR.0000045557.15923.96 where mindfulness meditation has led to a decrease in ruminative thinking.

A quick glance through a search about meditation and depression on google scholar shows a number of similar studies, and might help anyone thinking about using meditation for themselves or other people.
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

Thanisaro85

  • Member
  • Practising vipassana, to eliminate suffering.
    • Vipassana, wat amphawan Singburi, thailand
Re: Helping others meditate - how much is too much?
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2020, 01:54:59 PM »
Hi Thanisaro85. I think the problem with medical conditions like depression is that people don't know enough about it to give advice to people. To describe some sufferers as "needy and heedless" is to misunderstand what depression is. The place of meditation in depression is interesting, however. Studies such as this one indicate positive findings: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/B:COTR.0000045557.15923.96 where mindfulness meditation has led to a decrease in ruminative thinking.

A quick glance through a search about meditation and depression on google scholar shows a number of similar studies, and might help anyone thinking about using meditation for themselves or other people.

Hi Stillpointdancer,

My bad...i don't mean that...do allow me to rephrase...what I am trying to say is...depression sufferers, is just like any living beings, they can be independent or needy, heedless. Just that we are more emotional depressed, most of the time. In fact, sufferers like us feel lonely most of the time, even when our relatives, friends and family is with us.

To be frank, i do not know that i had depression until i am about 23 years old( i am now 44) when I saw an article in internet mentioned about depression, i don't even know that there is this illness called depression. I have being feeling sad constantly for nothing, i thought i was normal, or maybe emotion. I looked up more about depression and it took me long time before i decided to see a psychiatrist. I was afraid at then, why me? Why am I borned like this?  I was given medications but i stopped because it make me emotionless and make my reaction slow, it affected my work. I read in forums that some people conditions get worse after they stopped medications, some said tapering of medication works some said don't. Anyway, i just stop medications and try to avoid caffeine and alcohol because the worsen sad mood is just unbearable. I quit alcohol 7 years ago after one night of heavy drinking alcohol cocktails in a gathering, the next day at one moment i just wanted to die, the feeling is so strong but i don't have a reason to, i thought i am losing control of myself, .it's scary. And i can relate why Chester from the band Linkin park committed suicide. It is not controllable.


I am going to stop here on this thread.....





 
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 02:23:46 PM by Thanisaro85 »
A Mind Unshaken, when touches by worldy matter, sorrowless, secure and dustless, this is the ultimate great blessing~ Mangala Sutta

dharma bum

  • Moderator
  • Certified Zen Master (second degree black belt)
    • vipassana
Re: Helping others meditate - how much is too much?
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2020, 02:32:07 PM »
All advice are suggestions. No advice is definitive or will work for everybody and for all time. If there was a definitive way to deal with everybody in a certain situation, somebody would have published a small booklet saying - Hey, this is what you need to do.

If you ask a friend of mine A what she wants, she will tell you exactly what she wants. Another person B would tell you what she thinks will cause you the least inconvenience. So, you can't always rely on asking people what they want. In certain cultures and people of certain self-deprecating temperaments, people don't always say what they want - it is regarded as improper. I know lots of people in my family who won't tell you they are suffering until it becomes unbearable for them.

I'm not sure training in psychology or therapy necessary qualifies you to deal with somebody with depression. If only life were that easy. Even depression is a catch-all word for which the physiological/psychological basis is not understood very well.
Mostly ignorant

Katia

  • Member
    • none specific
Re: Helping others meditate - how much is too much?
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2020, 02:14:58 AM »
I didn't get a sense that Chin was dictating what she should be feeling or doing.
I did.  These are value judgments that meditation should be important to her and that she's not doing it the way she should be (bolding mine):
his concerns me because a) if she were genuinely practicing, she would start to see some benefits and that would reflect in her desire to pursue this more on her own and b) I don't want to keep pushing this as "my agenda" on her because that creates stress for me (in not letting go enough).

Having said this, she does say that she benefits from the sittings, especially the metta meditations. It's just that it doesn't reflect in her attitude of apathy toward her own practice. (Of course, with her depression, she finds it hard to not be apathetic towards anything - so we could just chalk it down to that.)
She definitely doesn't see it as a bother or something being inflicted on her. It's just that she doesn't seem to have the hunger for the insights available through meditation, especially the kind that I think would be helpful for her to manage her depression


Chin has asked the Sangha here for advises, all Sangha here base on their personal experiences to share their advises, while maybe not all advises can hit the nail on the head, I do not see that anything that is really harmful. And you are suppose to be one of the sangha. It is good that you had been there before and understand what Chin and his spouse had gone thru . But if this is not his job to seek method to help his spouse, who should?  further, then is it your job to give Chin your advise? Do you see where I am coming from?  I am not sure if you are aware that your post is judgemental and assuming?

And do remember that every depression victims, can behave differently, some are more independent and some are needy and heedless. Only Chin knows. So coming at this we should not judge whose advises can help or not. You make this statement below. Don't you see that all of us here including yourself is just like a individual pharmaceutical clinic?
He asked advice.  I gave it.  And no, he is not a therapist and should not put it on himself to treat her, just as I assume he would not if she had cancer or a broken leg.  Her treatment should be based on what she wants and needs, not what he thinks she should want and need.  I'm sure if she is "needy and heedless," her therapist will deal with that; that is what they are for.


All advice are suggestions. No advice is definitive or will work for everybody and for all time. If there was a definitive way to deal with everybody in a certain situation, somebody would have published a small booklet saying - Hey, this is what you need to do.
Yes, that's pretty much what I said.

If you ask a friend of mine A what she wants, she will tell you exactly what she wants. Another person B would tell you what she thinks will cause you the least inconvenience. So, you can't always rely on asking people what they want. In certain cultures and people of certain self-deprecating temperaments, people don't always say what they want - it is regarded as improper. I know lots of people in my family who won't tell you they are suffering until it becomes unbearable for them.
Why do you think that this phenomenon then means another person gets to decide what another person wants?  Just because B does not communicate honestly what they want or need does not mean you get to disregard what they tell you their wishes are, assume what you think they want or should want, and treat them like a child by overriding what they tell you.  Whether you think they're being truthful or not, you should abide what they state their wishes are.  Forcing "help" on someone who says they don't want it has harmed many.

I'm not sure training in psychology or therapy necessary qualifies you to deal with somebody with depression. If only life were that easy. Even depression is a catch-all word for which the physiological/psychological basis is not understood very well.
Well, if psychology training doesn't qualify a person to work with people who have mental illnesses, then certainly a lack of psychology training doesn't, does it?

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Staff
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: Helping others meditate - how much is too much?
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2020, 03:13:42 AM »
Maybe our friend chin has enough feedback to help? I think what can usefully be offered has been. If anyone wants to continue debating the merit of offered help, that might best be done in another thread? There is room for discussion yet please ask "am I offering my experience as a guide? Or, am I trying to be right?".
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
9 Replies
3796 Views
Last post September 07, 2008, 10:23:25 PM
by Matthew
25 Replies
6625 Views
Last post December 30, 2010, 12:21:49 PM
by Matty G
43 Replies
11779 Views
Last post April 25, 2017, 04:06:38 AM
by Matthew
10 Replies
2866 Views
Last post October 27, 2011, 08:32:30 AM
by Jeeprs
4 Replies
2046 Views
Last post September 24, 2013, 04:10:35 PM
by AllThingsWon
20 Replies
4688 Views
Last post February 09, 2014, 09:31:54 PM
by Matthew
21 Replies
4257 Views
Last post April 25, 2016, 10:41:26 AM
by smritiyoga