Path to enlightenment: meditation versus astral projection

[friskshol]

Hello everyone

My aim is to "know what is this all about" wtf is life, why this process, and how to reach the "final goal"

I sometimes feel like meditation systems are old, and that we now know some hacks to get astral projection which could lead to the same thing, but way faster

What are your thoughs on this ?

[Dharmic Tui]

It's highly debatable whether astral projection is something that's objectively observable. If you're talking about actual enlightenment, this requires an insight that normally needs to be learned over time, if there's a shortcut, it won't be lasting nor overly complete.

[stillpointdancer]

I've experienced astral projection, but to me it was just a side effect of what happens when you meditate long term. Things change in the brain, which throws up all kinds of stuff as it does so. During my 'projection' I looked back and saw the long thin connection between me and my body as I 'met' some beings, but I don't think it was any more (or less) 'real' that any of the other stuff that has happened to me. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the experience and would enjoy it if it happened again, but I don't spend time trying to repeat it.

[siddharthgode]

Can you please explain how projecting ones mind out of the body free the mind from the sufferings that is caused by the body. Also how does it remove negativity if we ignore the sensory feed back from the body and escape in to the mind? After all we will have to return back to the body after projection is done.. 

[friskshol]

Thanks for your answers

@Dharmic Tui: astral projection need to be learned over time, but apparently take less than "years/decades" to see results

@stillpointdancer: modern "scientifics" have the flawed logic to label every mind-related experiences that they have trouble to explain as "random hallucinations" to confort themself in their atomistic-religion (big bang > atoms > monkeys > human > death > end)
All of their "science" to explain why life and what is after is based on theories themself based on theories. This is what science became when it wanted to compete with religions.
There is extensive litterature on astral projection, including many scientific ones. Same for extra sensorial perceptions.  I think it is enough for me to have good faith in the reality of the thing

I did project intentionnaly once, but have troubles to repeat this at will

@siddharthgode: Astral projectors are know to be able to learn about their past life and to get insight about how their mind actually work. I think is is a great way to get knowledge about life
My body doesn't suffer much (except my back when I meditate )

[stillpointdancer]

My astral experience was pretty moving, to be honest, and let me see things in a different way. It doesn't bother me that it is most likely just a side-effect of meditation. I remember having a tooth out as a child under gas, the next thing I knew I was floating on the ceiling, looking down at the nurse trying to wake me and telling me not to rub my eyes. An experience that stays with you for life, like the astral projection one. One well worth having, even if it can't be taken as 'evidence'. It's always possible that by 'side effect' it could mean that you slip into a different way of seeing the world for a few seconds, an instance of insight.

[Meditative]

I'm not sure about this topic, but I would like to hear what people have to say especially from more experienced meditators. I get sleep paralysis every night which I was told is the starting point for astral projection. I just don't know how to consciously project.

Here is an interesting video all about astral projection for people who want to know more about what it actually is. I'm not sure how accurate the information is, but it's a cool video nonetheless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VB6h_bWR3Y

[mdr]

Can you please explain how projecting ones mind out of the body free the mind from the sufferings that is caused by the body. Also how does it remove negativity if we ignore the sensory feed back from the body and escape in to the mind? After all we will have to return back to the body after projection is done..

Good question(s). I am not sure i know what's astral projection (ie. i am not sure that what i had experienced was exactly that). I did have various experiences with lucid dreaming, shapeshifting (in the dream of course) etc. It's like you get "high" on those experiences. They boost creativity (i write so it matters). It attracts synhronicities which reinforce that feeling of something magical and extraordinary happening. It's as if the mind shifts to another "domain". I don't recall experiencing suffering at least during "the day after" (or even if i had some pain, i wasn't focusing on it.) I must say these are other traditions than Vipassana (namely Shamanism and Ecstatic Kabbalah), so i am not sure it's really necessary to write in detail about it  here, as they are very different paths. Another thing is that  because of work  i couldn't  "immerse" myself into those experiences for prolonged periods of time.  Too often i was having early starts and I needed to be fresh and fully focused (i did simultaneous interpreting at the time). Thus i don't know what's the effect of a prolonged practice of a kind.  (I digress, but  imo Vipassana is probably the best practice for those who do such jobs, also for lecturers, scientists  and generally for people who are expected to think analytically and speak publicly, as it makes the mind clear and sharp as a razor.)

[Matthew]

Is it "astral projection" or is it projection of an egotistic understanding of what is manifesting?

Develop concentration, raise awareness/mindfulness, accept what is, let go of attachment and interpretation .... the recipe is not so hard.

[munchie]

I sometimes feel like meditation systems are old, and that we now know some hacks to get astral projection which could lead to the same thing, but way faster

What hacks are you talking about? Like using drugs or something? I am curious.

[friskshol]

@munchie: I was not talking about drugs, but various tricks, there is many here: http://obe4u.com/files/the_phase.pdf (it is more or less glad to this book that I had my first projection)
This latest book claim there is high chance to project after only 3 attempts.
Other techniques from other sources claim it can take as little as 2 weeks ("the art of astral projection " by ophiel)
Then once you cam get it at will it seem there is many very interesting things to do, especially to go back to "the oneness of everything" (Ophiel, Robert Monroe)

@Matthew: you are one of the reason of the existence of this thread
I remember a very old post from you, where you stated that modern Buddhism is flawed and that there is no aharant "industries" anymore.
You were also stating there was peoples becoming aharant in a week, in the far away past. If modern Buddhism is really flawed (it wouldn't surprise me), it might not be a so good idea start to be deeply involved into

I think OBE can be a good way to get insights, and way faster than meditation.
There is millions of things I'd like to do in my life, but can't do them all at the same time so I try to pick the most efficient ones

[Middleway]

I think OBE can be a good way to get insights, and way faster than meditation.
There is millions of things I'd like to do in my life, but can't do them all at the same time so I try to pick the most efficient ones

Why do you think astral projection is faster to get insights than meditation? Please can you describe the insights you gained through astral projection? So, did you find out that you have a soul that reincarnates? Also, are you suggesting that through astral projection, you can get enlightened? how so?

[mettajoey]

Hello everyone
My aim is to "know what is this all about" wtf is life, why this process, and how to reach the "final goal"
I sometimes feel like meditation systems are old, and that we now know some hacks to get astral projection which could lead to the same thing, but way faster
What are your thoughts on this ?

Realization is to identify with the "Totality of Being". Dzogchen Rinpoche says, "true realization, authentic enlightenment, is found in the body and nowhere else". Any practice that gives you a new perspective can be of value; but you are looking for more. AP appears to be mainly concerned with working with one's egoic desires and fantasies (I'm not being harsh, you're understand with practice); a fault of many practices. The true answers of who you are, to "know what is this all about" wtf is life"  lie within. The only things in life that are truly of value take time to develop. Looking for a "final goal" in just another egoic desire in this life time. The "final goal" is learning and developing enough to release from this life, when it's time, and to move onto what's next.

[Matthew]

@Matthew: you are one of the reason of the existence of this thread
I remember a very old post from you, where you stated that modern Buddhism is flawed and that there is no aharant "industries" anymore.
You were also stating there was peoples becoming aharant in a week, in the far away past. If modern Buddhism is really flawed (it wouldn't surprise me), it might not be a so good idea start to be deeply involved into

The word 'industries' is not one I have used in this context, though yes, in the Buddha's time there were many Arahants.

Just because the teachings are not being taught properly does not mean the path does not exist. I don't get "deeply involved" with any school or tradition any longer for exactly this reason. Better to try to find the path the way the Buddha did it ... by sitting still and disintegrating the aggregates.

I think OBE can be a good way to get insights, and way faster than meditation.
There is millions of things I'd like to do in my life, but can't do them all at the same time so I try to pick the most efficient ones

I'm not sure you've understood the goal at all to be honest. These millions of things you would like to do are coming from the conditioned ego. Your interpretation of experience as OBE is coming from the conditioned ego.

Is it "astral projection" or is it projection of an egotistic understanding of what is manifesting?

The above is pointing out that astral projection/OBE is an ego based intellectualising of experience. This is contrary to the path, the practice and the goal.

[friskshol]

Oh Well I'm going for astral projection
You all seem religious here and somehow brainwashed

Good luck

[mdr]

Oh Well I'm going for astral projection
You all seem religious here and somehow brainwashed

Good luck

Best of luck, friskshol! You personally certainly seem non-judgmental, the astral projection must have worked 

[Vivek]

You personally certainly seem non-judgmental, the astral projection must have worked

[Matthew]

Oh Well I'm going for astral projection
You all seem religious here and somehow brainwashed

Good luck

You've brainwashed yourself

Meditation is unbrainwashing.

[stillpointdancer]

I think the interesting thing raised by the thread is whether we would take on board something to 'help' the meditation process along. Something other than traditional practice, from things such as astral projection, to drugs, or to electromagnetic stimulation aimed at the 'god spot' in the brain. All these can be tried now, but what about the near future, when they will be much more sophisticated and, hopefully, safe?