Author Topic: Is Catharsis Necessary for Modern Man?  (Read 3981 times)

Meditative

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Is Catharsis Necessary for Modern Man?
« on: July 22, 2016, 03:07:55 AM »
Hi all,

I've been reading about meditation, and I came across some interesting information from Osho Rajneesh. He says that modern man is so repressed compared to people who lived in Buddha's days.. thus, we must first go through a watchful/mindful catharsis to throw out all of our repressions. Once repressions in the depths of our unconscious have been tossed, then Vipassana, yoga, or any method can truly flower, otherwise progress will come to a halt.

He states that if most modern humans go straight to sitting methods, we may become aware of our madness too quickly which can be very disturbing and drive someone insane if it's identified with. Going straight to Vipassana was easier for people in Buddha's time because of the more primitive and stress free lifestyles.  Too me it makes a ton of sense, but what are your thoughts or experiences on this?

« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 03:16:09 AM by Meditative »

mdr

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Re: Is Catharsis Necessary for Modern Man?
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2016, 06:00:00 AM »
Hi all,

I've been reading about meditation, and I came across some interesting information from Osho Rajneesh. He says that modern man is so repressed compared to people who lived in Buddha's days.. thus, we must first go through a watchful/mindful catharsis to throw out all of our repressions. Once repressions in the depths of our unconscious have been tossed, then Vipassana, yoga, or any method can truly flower, otherwise progress will come to a halt.

He states that if most modern humans go straight to sitting methods, we may become aware of our madness too quickly which can be very disturbing and drive someone insane if it's identified with. Going straight to Vipassana was easier for people in Buddha's time because of the more primitive and stress free lifestyles.  Too me it makes a ton of sense, but what are your thoughts or experiences on this?

I had a phase, long ago, when i used to read Osho and he used to make a lot of sense... But, later on, as i was learning about his true story and his practices, as he seems to have been not only liar and an abuser, but downright a criminal, whatever he wrote/ thought had lost any credibility. (If you read Rick Ross' materials, i believe you know what i am talking about: https://culteducation.com/group/1108-osho-rajneesh.html ) Anyway, to answer your question: i had read this Rajneesh 'information' that you mention, that very bit never made sense, and when i learned that the very source wasn't credible at all, even what used to make sense stopped doing so.
If you have the time, there are numerous great resources recommended here, at the forum: http://www.vipassanaforum.net/forum/index.php?board=3.0

DarkNightOfNoSoul

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Re: Is Catharsis Necessary for Modern Man?
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2016, 07:01:06 AM »
Don't know anything about Osho but I've studied psychology and the concept of catharsis is discredited. In the context of anger, research so far suggests that expressing anger, though it feels good, actually increases the likelihood of future anger (probably through negative reinforcement).

Meditative

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Re: Is Catharsis Necessary for Modern Man?
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2016, 08:18:39 AM »
Dark Knight- I read something a while back where Osho says if you aren't watchful/mindful during catharsis then the anger can become a habit. If you are watchful then it is released for good. I'm not really sure though because I haven't experimented with it.

mdr- I've read his story, despite that I have found some of his insight and advice to be very helpful and practical in my life. However I don't really believe anything he says before experiencing it myself.

rogp99

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Re: Is Catharsis Necessary for Modern Man?
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2016, 08:40:28 AM »
I think repressing emotions is harmful in the long-term, but this? oshodynamic.com/catharsis.html
« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 08:44:12 AM by rogp99 »

mdr

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Re: Is Catharsis Necessary for Modern Man?
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2016, 09:08:55 AM »
I think repressing emotions is harmful in the long-term,
i agree

Quote
but this? oshodynamic.com/catharsis.html

it's this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRXcbXnLwvM

@ 3.30 instructor says: next 15 min remain like a statue  ???


****i tried that at the time, it's insanely difficult, yet ineffective. no wonder Osho himself, according to his sanyasins' testimony, never did it, he came up with this stupidity and made his followers do it...  ::)

i don't know about you guys, but to me his concepts like 'Zorba the Buddha' (http://www.osho.com/highlights-of-oshos-world/zorba-the-buddha ) are seriously insulting to my intelligence.

Quote
mdr- I've read his story, despite that I have found some of his insight and advice to be very helpful and practical in my life. However I don't really believe anything he says before experiencing it myself.

Meditative, i am glad you are careful with this stuff, seriously.


****i forgot to add: here is what i mean by 'i tried that'; it was a group of us, 14 people, who were doing this meditation for  couple of months, 6x a week, guided by a guy familiar with Osho's method (not that i, like, tried once or twice and gave up, i was waaay to masochist for that  :D)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 09:14:06 AM by mdr »

Meditative

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Re: Is Catharsis Necessary for Modern Man?
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2016, 10:48:18 AM »
mdr- The method was probably incompatible for you, but I've seen all over the internet and Youtube of people saying that this type of method positively transformed there life. Should they keep doing it if has positive impact on their life? Or are they "stupid" for even trying in the first place? I'm going to experiment with his dynamic method, but only 2-4 minutes per step. 10-15 minutes will kill me lol! If I'm stupid for it, then so be it. If I don't find it useful I'l drop it.

Here's a good look into his philosophy:

http://www.osho.com/meditate/meditation-tool-kit/questions-about-meditation/is-it-good-to-start-with-a-sitting-meditation-or-an-active-meditation
« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 11:15:07 AM by Meditative »

mdr

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Re: Is Catharsis Necessary for Modern Man?
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2016, 12:57:23 PM »
mdr- The method was probably incompatible for you, but I've seen all over the internet and Youtube of people saying that this type of method positively transformed there life. Should they keep doing it if has positive impact on their life? Or are they "stupid" for even trying in the first place? I'm going to experiment with his dynamic method, but only 2-4 minutes per step. 10-15 minutes will kill me lol! If I'm stupid for it, then so be it. If I don't find it useful I'l drop it.

to the contrary, i think you are intelligent, curious and brave. Stupid other people are out there in front of their tv's, watching 'keeping up with the Kardashians" or something!  :angel: (sorry for mine being judgmental  :'( )

what does work for me is 'Osho Zen Tarot', created by Osho's disciple Ma Deva Padma. it's not a traditional Tarot deck, more of an oracle inspired by Eastern philosophy, but it's amazing, unbelievably beautiful and empowering.  :)


Laurent

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Re: Is Catharsis Necessary for Modern Man?
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2016, 04:52:24 PM »
Hi all,

I've been reading about meditation, and I came across some interesting information from Osho Rajneesh. He says that modern man is so repressed compared to people who lived in Buddha's days.. thus, we must first go through a watchful/mindful catharsis to throw out all of our repressions. Once repressions in the depths of our unconscious have been tossed, then Vipassana, yoga, or any method can truly flower, otherwise progress will come to a halt.

He states that if most modern humans go straight to sitting methods, we may become aware of our madness too quickly which can be very disturbing and drive someone insane if it's identified with. Going straight to Vipassana was easier for people in Buddha's time because of the more primitive and stress free lifestyles.  Too me it makes a ton of sense, but what are your thoughts or experiences on this?

Perhaps that is the reason those meditation methods can't be separated from an ethical behaviour.

Meditative

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Re: Is Catharsis Necessary for Modern Man?
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2016, 03:17:48 AM »


to the contrary, i think you are intelligent, curious and brave.



Why thank you  8)



. Stupid other people are out there in front of their tv's, watching 'keeping up with the Kardashians" or something!  :angel:



Dude leave the Kardashians out of this. That's messed up man... nah F the Kardashians haha

Matthew

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Re: Is Catharsis Necessary for Modern Man?
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2016, 09:56:23 PM »
Catharsis doesn't have to be loud, angry, shouty or wailing in grief: catharsis can be quiet, born with equanimity and full of grace. Osho, like many teachers involved in bringing eastern traditions to the attention of the West, had many faults. I doubt he was fully awakened, even though quite a lot of what he said and wrote shines some light on truth.

Sati or mindfulness is synonymous with "remembering": in my journey through meditation there has been much remembering of past harm that had been suppressed. Yet the Buddha taught the goal is not reached by those who spend their time blaming and worrying about past hurts: remember, don't ignore or indulge any pain that arises; allow yourself to feel emotional content without being subsumed by those emotions; find your equanimity and compassion; and move on to unpeeling the next layer of your conditioning.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Frightful

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Re: Is Catharsis Necessary for Modern Man?
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2016, 04:40:49 PM »
@Matthew: "Sati or mindfulness is synonymous with "remembering": in my journey through meditation there has been much remembering of past harm that had been suppressed."

As "mindfulness meditation" appears to have been anointed as the model of meditation supported by Western health care entities, I really wish this definition of mindfulness would be more widely known and accepted.  Absent this understanding of mindfulness, I think new practitioners may often get lodged or lost in a more cognitive loop, reasoning that "I must use my mind to calm the waters....".  While this may partly be true, what I personally like about the 'remembering' definition is the fact that so much of our reacting to a present day situation is embedded in our past.  By meditatively remembering the coherence....the continuity between.... the present emotions and past emotions, it seems to defuse the power of the present issue and, as you noted, " allow yourself to feel emotional content without being subsumed by those emotions" while leading most importantly to the "unpeeling the next layer of your conditioning".

Matthew

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Re: Is Catharsis Necessary for Modern Man?
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2016, 08:28:42 PM »
Hi Frightful,

You've really hit the nail on the head with the consumption of mindfulness by Western medical practices. "Mindfulness" based cognitive behavioural therapy (MCBT) is the cheap therapy equivalent of antidepressants. Leveraging mindfulness into CBT helps teach people to subdue and control their symptoms - and not solve/discover the underlying cause of their psychological and social pain which is often buried deep.

~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

 

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