Is this Kundalini?

[John Bruzi]

Hi guys! Miss you all.

I want to report a very weird experience I've been having with meditation lately. Just to be clear, I haven't been meditating all this time and have not maintained a proper regime of meditation, however, I think I've mastered the basics of breathing and relaxation and can enter into a deep trance whenever I want to now, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to induce the experiences which I'm about to narrate.

As I've said before, the practice of meditation has always induced in me the following: increased heart rate, a feeling of imminent departure (floating) and a feeling of movement in the head (a prelude to so-called astral projection I'm told).

But now the whole thing has escalated. After relaxing and breathing for a while, I'm getting sexual sensations (even thought I'm not getting a full erection, I'm still getting a feeling that orgasm is imminent). I say "sensations" and not "feelings" because there are no mental images whatsoever, but only physical sensations pure and simple. It's like the body is "thinking" for itself.

Is this really Kundalini? I mean I've been suffering from a sexual OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder) lately but I don't think this is it, because I've had similar (albeit less intense) experiences with meditation before. Also other people report similar experiences (I mean sexual sensations during meditation) and most of them don't suffer from a sexual OCD.

I must say that before experiencing this "kundalini" I had read in some article that sexual sensations "may" occur during a deep trance. I think the suggestiveness of what I had read produced some sort of anticipation in my mind. Still, if this is Kundalini awoken, I want to know what I can do to control it and not let it control me.

One guy reports that he's now getting orgasms all the time, and that it's becoming a problem for him. I don't want that to happen to me,

[TheJourney]

Kundalini can be a bliss and danger, depending on how it is unleashed.

A psychiatrist, on Buddha at the Gas Pump interview, said that it came suddenly for him and he wasn't looking for it. He knew that when it comes he has to let it rip; otherwise, dangerous mishaps can happen. Fortunately for him, it turned out okay.

Either you have a one time experience of bliss. The other possibilities are the acquiring of psychological powers that can make you appear mentally ill. One lady was treated as such when she came to LA, but fortunately sometimes later she was okay. Not all are lucky like this. Some have decades of physical ailments. Some are thought of as mentally ill. When the energy is blocked at some point, the unleash of the energy becomes unbalanced and will cause problems for you.

It is best to let stop meditating for a while. If you want the experience, look for an expert in this area who can guide you to successful unleash of energy. Don't try to control it yourself. It will cause serious damage to you. Just google "danger of kundalini", and you will read about many experiences.

Or look for someone who can work on your energy to help you get through it without kundalini awakening. It is only a one time experience, and it doesn't make you an enlightened being. After a successful experience, you are back to normal with the same train of thoughts as everyone else.

The flip side is that if it is not successful, you will pay a huge price that can even be potentially threatening to your ability to work. The scariest part is the mental part that can make one appear mentally ill.

[Quardamon]

Hello John Bruzi,

Good to hear from you.
In reaction to your post, I will tell about a meeting with kundalini that I had. I have posted it before, so maybe you know the story.
Hmm - I will simply quote myself. Two quotes, partly overlapping:

In my first 9-day retreat, during sitting meditation, I started swaying.
I knew I was 'trespassing the rules' by not sitting still. But it felt very natural. And, when looking closely, I had to admit that it felt like a natural effect of the sitting and meditating.
From earlier experiences, I also knew, that the body has its own wisdom. So I decided that the only thing that I could do was to allow this.
I allowed the swinging. At the same time, I stuck to the discipline: When it was time to get up for the walking meditation, I did walking meditation; when it was time to do prostrations, I did prostrations. And after that sitting again.
In this retreat, each participant had a small room for themselves, where they were the whole day, except for a daily interview with the teacher, and a group sit and dhamma talk in the evening. So I hindered nobody with my swaying.
There seemed to be a certain order or sequence:
First I would sway to front and back - later sideways, left and right - still later, in the next sitting, my body would make circular movements. First only the head, later the whole body from the pelvis upward. It felt funny, but I got the hang of it. The movements would become bigger and bigger, and I would feel more energy going through me. That again would scare me, but again I felt that this was natural and the outcome of doing the meditation, so there was no objective reason to have fear. By again allowing the process, the fear went away.

When I told my teacher (Mettaviharee), I was surprised to find that he was quite enthusiastic. After a day the movements subsided and I sat still again.

The way I see this now, is that the body wisdom takes over.

P.S.: I am convinced, that is is OK to allow this process. I am also convinced that it is wrong to stimulate it. (Unless you have a teacher who can handle that.) But this remark is more a warning for other people who read this also.

And yes, the body has an enormous power to heal itself. As a dancer and former masseur I know. I recently read: 'Waking the Tiger' by Peter A. Levine. He taps into the wisdom and knowledge of the body. His kind of work is called 'somatic experiencing'. But maybe I am getting too elaborate.

On integrating crying and screaming into meditation I do want to elaborate:
My first retreat - I left after 9 days - was with a Thai monk who was honoured here in the Netherlands and in the cloister where he came from. He had us sit (and walk, and do prostrations) each in our own little room. After three days, my body started to jerk now and then. A day later, swaying forward and back occurred. I considered stopping these things, but found, that this is what life had to offer at this moment, exactly because I was very dedicated and trusted (and liked) the teacher very much. So I had the courage to carry on. The teacher made a scornful remark during a talk for the group, that some people sat for days and had nothing happening. (Obviously, that was not for me.) Next day, I made full rotations with my body. Mind you, the instruction was t sit still. And the instruction never changed, although I told the teacher in our daily 10-minutte talk what was going on. My sitting even brought me to masturbate to release a sexual block.
Years later, I read that those movements were the start of (or introduction to) a Kundalini cycle. The jerks of the body are called kriya's. At the time, it was only clear to me, that the meditation made me do these things.

In the last two years, there have been two periods of three months, that I always had tissues at my side, because I would weep.
So my reaction is: If there is no practical objection, by all means, scream in your meditation.

My son calls me now - we are going to watch a DVD, my wife, son and I.

I wish you a happy integration!

With love,

Quardamon

It will be obvious that I am glad to read:

    . . .    there are no mental images whatsoever, but only physical sensations pure and simple. It's like the body is "thinking" for itself.

[Quardamon]

You ask what you can do to control it and not let it control you.

What I learned from Frits Koster is not to give it much attention.
You know, that a lot of things grow when they get attention.
By focussing on normal, simple things you avoid the drama - both the bliss and the danger.
Kundalini is a life energy and a cleaning force, and it will do its work any way. Just like one digests one's food anyway.

[John Bruzi]

Thanks for the reply Quardamon.

Someone I know just told me that he had similar experiences, but that it wasn't Kundalini because Kundalini is a one time. I hope he's right.

So what you're saying is that I need to let the body work itself out. That sounds sensible, but who knows how bad things can go if the body works itself out in an unpredictable way? Like you once told me, meditation can bring out the horrible stuff inside of us unless approached carefully so as to bring them out smoothly.

Man I wish we had a Yoga master somewhere in the neighborhood hehe. I'm gonna stop meditating for a while because I'm joining with some kind of cognitive-behavioral therapy to counter my recently developed OCD, which is also of a sexual nature.

[Frightful]

In the FWIW department, against a backdrop of several cycles of "falling in love" in my adult life, two experiences occurred of this type that quite deeply knocked my socks off.....like  I was simultaneously standing in front of the most beautiful heaven and most dark abyss.  The second of these sent me into therapy, during which the therapist recommended meditation as one component of my betterment.  The link below is one person's experience of what they considered to be kundalini.....I don't know enough about that concept and experience so don't know how well the author's experience tracks with its definition.  But I do know that my own experience tracks well with that of the author....would be curious to know of other's possible experiences in this regard.

http://biologyofkundalini.com/article.php?story=MyStory

[Matthew]

Hi John,

Good to hear from you!

Like Quardamon I shall quote myself on my first "Kundalini" experience:

The first meditation I undertook was untrained and came from Sogyal Rinpoche's 'The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying'. It was a practice called Tonglen or 'Sending and Receiving'which consisted of breathing in and out, on the in-breath taking in the suffering of the world and on the out-breath sending out peace to all who suffer.

The results, within 20 minutes, were surprising: I experienced an energy coursing through my body and especially in my spine. It felt very overwhelming. I stopped and then tried the practice again to see if the result could be reproduced (born scientist ). It could but it was not an outcome described in the book so I stopped it there. It was not unpleasant but my guess was that on some level my approach to the practice was faulted, probably due to a lack of grounding in meditation. I am not a new-age type but for want of a better word I would say this was a manifestation of kundalini or life-force, magnified or concentrated by the way I did that practice.

It's easy and seductive to get drawn to reproducing such manifestations or be put off practice by them.

I want to report a very weird experience I've been having with meditation lately. ...

But now the whole thing has escalated. After relaxing and breathing for a while, I'm getting sexual sensations (even thought I'm not getting a full erection, I'm still getting a feeling that orgasm is imminent). I say "sensations" and not "feelings" because there are no mental images whatsoever, but only physical sensations pure and simple. It's like the body is "thinking" for itself.

Is this really Kundalini? I mean I've been suffering from a sexual OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder) lately but I don't think this is it, because I've had similar (albeit less intense) experiences with meditation before.

I suspect it is a manifestation of Kundalini and also a by-product of your sexual OCD focussing it into your sexual organs. You can continue practicing and when this sensation arises pay no heed to it, just continue with the practice as normal. You may find this enhances rather than takes away from the CBT you are starting.

One guy reports that he's now getting orgasms all the time, and that it's becoming a problem for him. I don't want that to happen to me,

Hell no! Imagine that in the shrine room ... HAHAHA

[mikety]

Why are you so fixated on the word with K ? Its just a word . I guess you are young and inexperienced at meditation looking for something special . The important thing is to continue to meditate where there is nothing special . Over the long run this is more beneficial than chasing some pre advertised great state like the word that begins with K . Dont become brainwashed with the internet telling you meditation is about getting to blissful feelings .

[Matthew]

Hello mikety,

Welcome to the forum. Why is there such a ring of rudeness in your post and why do you make assumptions? Your first post and you make an arse out of yourself. Bloody marvellous.

In the Dhamma,

Matthew

[John Bruzi]

Thanks for your responses Matthew and Frightful.

Mikety, I was never interested in inducing Kundalini, since almost everything I've read about it seems to suggest that it's dangerous, unpredictable and not so good to have without having a special teacher, which I don't. The only thing I ever wanted to induce in meditation was OBE, or out-of-body experiences. Yes, those I really wanted to have!

[Goofaholix]

The only thing I ever wanted to induce in meditation was OBE, or out-of-body experiences. Yes, those I really wanted to have!

Kundalini is dangerous but OBE's are not?  Not that I'd know, either way what does it have to do with vipassana?

If you're not sure you may want to review the instructions for Vipassana meditation, have a look at the resources here http://www.vipassanaforum.net/forum/index.php?board=6.0 Mindfulness in Plain English is a good one.
Also this publication has some good tips on right attitude http://ashintejaniya.org/books-right-attitude