Author Topic: Question about labeling  (Read 1912 times)

sophia

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Question about labeling
« on: January 28, 2016, 02:58:18 PM »
Hi... this is not clear to me... i have questions about the labeling. I practice Mahasi vipassana. It is clear to me we must notice the rising and falling of the abdomen at the beginning of the meditation. "Rising" "Falling". But what we should do later? Should we leave the noticing of rising and falling? If yes then when we should leave the noticing of rising and falling? After how many minutes? We start the meditation we notice "rising" "falling" how many minutes later we should leave the noticing of rising and falling? I don't see about this question in books. Thank you for your answer.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 03:42:15 PM by sophia »

Matthew

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Re: Question about labeling
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2016, 03:19:03 AM »
Hi Sophia,

As mentioned in your other thread actually using words to label experience is to kickstart the practice - like having an anchor to hold you steady .. as soon as you can be aware of the object of meditation without labeling let go and stop: it is the awareness of experience you need to develop and finesse, deepen to profound sensitivity. Labeling just gets in the way.

In the Dhamma,

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

sophia

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    • i practice Mahasi Sayadaw's vipassana technique
Re: Question about labeling
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2016, 08:30:00 AM »
Hi Sophia,

As mentioned in your other thread actually using words to label experience is to kickstart the practice - like having an anchor to hold you steady .. as soon as you can be aware of the object of meditation without labeling let go and stop: it is the awareness of experience you need to develop and finesse, deepen to profound sensitivity. Labeling just gets in the way.

In the Dhamma,

Matthew

Hi Matthew. From where do you know it? Is the teacher theravada teacher? And which book tell about it?

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Staff
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: Question about labeling
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2016, 11:40:50 AM »
Hi sophia,

From many teachers and many books - but also from common sense, reason and - most importantly - experience. We are trying to connect with direct experience on the path of meditation. This includes language and thinking yet the reality is, for most of us raised in the modern world, we over-identify with language and thinking.

Therefore, if you need to label with language to anchor your mind to bodily experience then do so, and as you do it develop the direct knowing of the body experience. Once you can connect to this direct knowing of body experience the labelling can be let go of .. you feel belly "rising", belly "falling" .. you know "thinking" has arisen and you are letting go of it, not following  it .. at this stage continued labelling can become habitual and block you from developing the knowing/feeling into a finer grain detail.

I hope that helps, in the Dhamma,

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

sophia

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Re: Question about labeling
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2016, 12:07:28 PM »
Thanks. Can you write the names and the authors of these books? Please. Thank you. And can you tell more about the teachers who taught what you wrote? Are they theravada teachers?
« Last Edit: January 30, 2016, 12:11:10 PM by sophia »

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
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  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: Question about labeling
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2016, 01:34:45 PM »
Sophia, too many books to name - and to be honest I read Pali scripture (in English translation) more than books since some years now ...

Teachers were Mahayana/Vajrayana (Venerable Khandro Rinpoche) yet also she taught me very solid Therevada foundations, because, oh boy was she thorough!!! Ten day retreats with her always the same .. started with two four hour lectures per day and after two days she says, "we don't have time to do all we need so now we have three four hour lectures per day!"

Also this is something I discussed with other Theverada monks and teachers including a close friend, a Bhikku from India I lived with for two years. He was always trying to convince me to become a monk as he said Dhamma is as big a part in my life as any monk he knows ... I said "So why become a monk?" :D
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

sophia

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    • i practice Mahasi Sayadaw's vipassana technique
Re: Question about labeling
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2016, 02:45:51 PM »

Also this is something I discussed with other Theverada monks and teachers including a close friend, a Bhikku from India I lived with for two years. He was always trying to convince me to become a monk as he said Dhamma is as big a part in my life as any monk he knows ... I said "So why become a monk?" :D

So did you discussed about the labeling with theravada teachers and monks? And did every teachers and monks said what you wrote about the labeling in your first post in this topic?
« Last Edit: January 30, 2016, 02:49:02 PM by sophia »

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Staff
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: Question about labeling
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2016, 03:50:29 PM »
yes, without exception - though it was not an issue discussed with every teacher I met .. after so many conversations it just begins to repeat .... pointless.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

sophia

  • Member
  • Who are you?
    • i practice Mahasi Sayadaw's vipassana technique
Re: Question about labeling
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2016, 05:54:17 AM »
yes, without exception - though it was not an issue discussed with every teacher I met .. after so many conversations it just begins to repeat .... pointless.

Thank you for your answers :)

 

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