Author Topic: Potention of Meditation For Altering States of Consciousness  (Read 3006 times)

Jayess

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Potention of Meditation For Altering States of Consciousness
« on: September 07, 2015, 04:39:11 PM »
Hi everyone

My question is quite simple, however I'd like to briefly explain the background behind why I'm interested in meditation; it's quite a strange reason really ha.

- Firstly I have been using recreational drugs such as MDMA for a few years now. I love the feeling it brings when I listen to music or how I view the world during the experience as well. However, lately I have found though that when I listen to music now without it, I am not enjoying it as much. Music has always been a huge part of my life but without MDMA it seems like there now is something missing, I cannot just be at peace with music without stressing about being without MDMA. I suppose it's because when I am taking MDMA it just seems like nothing else matters at all except the music for that point in time, or maybe it's because it makes me that happy that the music somehow seems better than what it is. I close my eyes sometimes and it's like my brain takes me on a visual journey and you travel somewhere with the music.

My question is, how much potential does meditation have with regards to altering ones state of consciousness? Could meditation enable me to enjoy music and art on the same conscious level as drugs can?

Sorry if this seems like a stupid question but I have very little knowledge on the subject and I am always eager to understand as much as I can.

Thupten

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Re: Potention of Meditation For Altering States of Consciousness
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2015, 09:11:17 PM »
Maybe it's not so much about altering the consciousness as it is about allowing oneself to abide in the true nature of ultimate consciousness. 
 
I think we can get attached to sensory stimulation, whether sound, feeling, taste, or anything along those lines. Since the nature of phenomena is impermanence, this attachment can be problematic, it causes stress and also aversion to the situations in which we don't have the stimulation. It's kind of a roller coaster really and with meditation we find level ground, we can find the natural state free from attachment, aversion and ignorance.

Goofaholix

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Re: Potention of Meditation For Altering States of Consciousness
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2015, 04:38:11 AM »
We crave something that will make us feel better, or will take away or numb us from what makes us feel bad.  When we get it then we might feel better for a little while but then the craving kicks in and we need something more, or different or better.

From your post it sounds like you are expecting meditation to give you a better result as the things that previously made you feel good don't do so as well as they used to. 

However the meditation we practice here is designed to help you establish the present moment awareness needed to see through this cycle, let go of it, and so find contentment.

Jayess

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Re: Potention of Meditation For Altering States of Consciousness
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2015, 12:23:27 PM »
Thank you for your responses.

So in context with the answers which you have given, would meditation serve to make an individual happier with normal consciousness rather than try to change normal consciousness?

And just as a hypothetical question, would it ever be possible for meditation to have the potential to alter consciousness in the same way that drugs can?

clayton

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Re: Potention of Meditation For Altering States of Consciousness
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2015, 12:40:11 PM »
Thank you for your responses.

So in context with the answers which you have given, would meditation serve to make an individual happier with normal consciousness rather than try to change normal consciousness?

And just as a hypothetical question, would it ever be possible for meditation to have the potential to alter consciousness in the same way that drugs can?

meditation helps you lose a lot of things... anger, disappointment, regret.  it can make someone happier because they can more easily let go of the things that were illusory in the first place.  it's kind of like a massage for the brain where it can help loosen up the tight knots in your mind (this is an oversimplification though).

the first several months of my meditation experience I experienced a lot of fireworks and in some instances it felt comparable to drugs.  I went on a meditation retreat once and a guy there talked about how he felt like he was on heroin during some of the meditation and it became something he began to chase after... this sort of high you can find in meditation.  the more he chased after it the harder it became to get to that point.  It's not really something to strive for.
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2cdod

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Re: Potention of Meditation For Altering States of Consciousness
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2015, 04:21:44 PM »
Quote
My question is, how much potential does meditation have with regards to altering ones state of consciousness? Could meditation enable me to enjoy music and art on the same conscious level as drugs can?

With my little experience of meditation, and extensive experience of drug use, I can tell you that meditation don't create directly as intense and as powerfull alterate state of consciousness than drugs can create (for a beginner). But I don't say that meditation is useless. It create a real shift in consciousness that able you to be more happy with less stimulation. It bring your attention on the present moment : watching nature or listening to a song without all the garbage of our daily life can be far more rewarding then. An other thing : More you practice, more you gain benefits. That's not the same for drugs and MDMA, and soon you will lost the magic of empathogens like me. You can't loose the magic of meditation with overuse.

I experienced a few moments of mental peace in my meditation, and it was a kind of a revelation. That's really refreshing... I was an avid drug user, and it's sure that MDMA and others substances can create frikING allsome waves of euphoria. But if you watch the euphoria created attentively, you find that this euphoria don't bring peace on your mind, but the contrary. As using of the drug increase, you have more and more thoughts like "holy shit, I know this high will soon end", "Maybe I didn't take enough and I won't have my big ass rise" (don't know the English for "grosse montée dans ta face^^"). This is not the case with meditation. If you start reacting on a pleasant sensation during meditation, you loose your mental stability and the pleasant sensation stop : It teach you not to react to pleasant things. It teach you to be happy with the present moment, and not thinking "with MDMA music will be better". It can helps you let go of such comparisons that I know drug users have all the time. Without permanent thoughts that tell you "with that or that it will be better", life is far more tasty hehe!

Hope my ramblings will help a bit!

Take care, MDMA isn't like candy, a peace mind thanks to meditation is ;)

« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 04:25:54 PM by 2cdod »

Jayess

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Re: Potention of Meditation For Altering States of Consciousness
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2015, 10:21:12 PM »
Thank you guys for the responses so far. I have thought more about what it is that maybe draws me towards chasing that same state of consciousness.

I think the main thing that I love about MDMA is that I give myself what feels like love and just genuine peace when I take it. Obviously this will reflect onto others but I just remember the first night I ever tried it. All i kept thinking was "Everything just feels perfect right now, there is nothing i have to worry or be negative about" so i suppose it was just those couple of hours free from being plagued my own normal constant antagonistic thoughts, doubts, worries and distractions. I think when its all said and done, that's what I truly value from the whole experience.

So in a way, if meditation can help me to achieve this, then I would love to start developing this into my life :)

If anyone has any tips as to where I should start, based on the end goal which I am striving for, advice would be much appreciated!

Matthew

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Re: Potention of Meditation For Altering States of Consciousness
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2015, 02:10:16 PM »
Hi Jayess,

Given your goal the starting point is surely forgetting your goal.

Once liberated from goals you would benefit from mediating as per the Shamatha/Calm Abiding instructions on the forum homepage.

Chasing goals means missing the sights on the journey: missing the sights on the journey means you aren't taking the journey but an analogue or approximation of it.

Warmly,

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

2cdod

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Re: Potention of Meditation For Altering States of Consciousness
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2015, 01:50:48 PM »
Quote
Chasing goals means missing the sights on the journey: missing the sights on the journey means you aren't taking the journey but an analogue or approximation of it.

How to start meditating without a goal? Did you started meditation without any goals? I understand that the more you practice, the more you understand what you're trying to explain, no goal, just consciousness in the present moment. But at the very beginning?

Matthew

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Re: Potention of Meditation For Altering States of Consciousness
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2015, 02:29:35 PM »
It's about experience not explaining: being and feeling not describing in words.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

 

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