Author Topic: meditation do you suggest for...?  (Read 14190 times)

Alex

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Re: meditation do you suggest for...?
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2015, 04:29:02 PM »
The thing is i have meditated twice today for about 30 min and every other day just sitting there and closing my eyes
and i go in a meditative state for about the last 15 min or so, so its not a problem to get there.

Seems to me that the breath works fine as an object of meditation  ;)

Hi Alex
I respect you but u put me threw all the explanations and info and you tell me that.
Wow dont know what i would of done with out you.

How does that tell you that the breath is a fine object to focus on.
Sorry but i dont get it  ???

Hi Babylon

I'm sorry I couldn't respond earlier as I was travelling. I probably won't be much online for the next few weeks as well. But I do want to respond to your questions or whatever it is you want to throw at me ;)

Okay, so you had different expectations from me. That's okay. And good to be aware of that too.

Maybe you expected a clear answer from me?

I tried to understand you as best as I could while respectfully "pointing" or "hinting" that you keep the breath as your object of meditation and be patient.
The process of reflecting or exploring what exactly is the issue you're dealing with, is important I think, but should not necessarily lead to a clear answer.

You are now more open to try to keep the breath as your primary object of meditation. That's great and that means great your question is not relevant any more and maybe did not really need an answer? ;)

But finally, my remark was maybe a clumpsy or superficial after the time and trouble we took to understand each other. Granted. But, when you explained that you're able to sit with the breath 30 minutes twice a day and that your mind quietens down in the process, that tells me that your meditation is going just fine and that there is no reason to switch from breath to another object...

Babylon A.D.

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Re: meditation do you suggest for...?
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2015, 06:18:00 PM »
I'm sorry I couldn't respond earlier as I was travelling. I probably won't be much online for the next few weeks as well. But I do want to respond to your questions or whatever it is you want to throw at me

Okay, so you had different expectations from me. That's okay. And good to be aware of that too.

Maybe you expected a clear answer from me?

I tried to understand you as best as I could while respectfully "pointing" or "hinting" that you keep the breath as your object of meditation and be patient.
The process of reflecting or exploring what exactly is the issue you're dealing with, is important I think, but should not necessarily lead to a clear answer.

You are now more open to try to keep the breath as your primary object of meditation. That's great and that means great your question is not relevant any more and maybe did not really need an answer?

But finally, my remark was maybe a clumpsy or superficial after the time and trouble we took to understand each other. Granted. But, when you explained that you're able to sit with the breath 30 minutes twice a day and that your mind quietens down in the process, that tells me that your meditation is going just fine and that there is no reason to switch from breath to another object...



Hi Alex
No problem on the traveling.
I think you understand me wrong.

The meditation i was doing i did not focus on my breath i just closed my eyes and let my mind quiet by itself.
The meditation i was told to do i could not because i was distracted with thought of the breath with the one nostil.
With that said people her really gave me some hope when they told me to focus on were in the body the breath is noticable
so i am going to giving it a try.

Sorry for the message last time as i now get it that you thought i was doing the meditation i was told to do.
But i was not.
Anyway thanks for your reply and i will do that meditation again but first i will try the one Matthew suggested

Peace
« Last Edit: July 21, 2015, 06:20:04 PM by Babylon A.D. »

Babylon A.D.

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Re: meditation do you suggest for...?
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2015, 06:29:26 PM »
Hi Babylon AD,

I have started meditation practice about year and half ago and I can relate to your feelings and frustration albeit for different reasons. The body scanning technique I learned at Mr. Goenka workshop was not getting me anywhere because I had doubts about the technique the way it was taught by Mr. Goenka on the tapes. I will not go into details as it is not relevant to the discussion here. I switched to meditation technique provided on the home page of this website and I continue to use it in my practice to this day.

As I understand, the purpose of meditation is to always be aware of the present moment and not get lost in thoughts (either past or future) or overcome by emotions/feelings. When mind is tranquil and is focused on the present moment, then the mind is able to see "what is" rather than looking at "what is" through filters and making it no longer "what is" (hope this makes sense). When a calm and quite mind focuses on the present moment, we get insights into things. For example, when you quietly and with great alertness observe your anxiety and/or fear (that you want to get rid off) in order to understand it, you may be able to identify the underlying causes. Those insights may help you overcome your anxieties and fears. 

Using breath as meditation object is very useful because it is always accessible/available anytime for mind to focus and train to be here in the now. Any other meditation object is a mental formation which will not last long enough for you to train your mind. I think if you focus your mind on full body breathing rather than just at nostrils (as Goofaholix pointed out), you may not feel the discomfort you may otherwise feel when you focus on your single nostril breathing.

Hope this helps.

Middleway

Hi Middleway
Thanks for your story as it makes me feel better and the way you explained it how it can help to train my
brain and to see what causes my anxiety and fears that really got my attention now :)

I am going to try the meditation on the home page thanks for your info.

Last thing what benefits have you had from this meditation, if i will PLEASE as it would motivate me even more
Thanks

Alex

  • Member
Re: meditation do you suggest for...?
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2015, 07:28:40 PM »

Peace

Same to you  ;)
I wish you a fruitful journey!

Middleway

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  • Just be a witness.
    • Vipassana as taught by Mr. Goenka - Switched to Shamatha
Re: meditation do you suggest for...?
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2015, 11:53:30 PM »

Hi Middleway
Thanks for your story as it makes me feel better and the way you explained it how it can help to train my
brain and to see what causes my anxiety and fears that really got my attention now :)

I am going to try the meditation on the home page thanks for your info.

Last thing what benefits have you had from this meditation, if i will PLEASE as it would motivate me even more
Thanks
I am glad you found my suggestion useful to you. I was in a vicious cycle of samsara chasing the pleasures and running away from pain. I needed the meditation practice to break that cycle. And it certainly did that and put me on a path towards contentment. As for looking for motivation, I think it should come from within. Motivation from external sources is not sustainable and would not last which then leads to frustration. I suggest that you follow your inner Buddha for motivation, listen to dhamma talks for pointers towards insights, and rely on support/advice from the sangha.

Warm regards,

Middleway
Take everything I say with a grain of salt.

Vivek

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    • Advaita & U Ba Khin's tradition
Re: meditation do you suggest for...?
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2015, 10:15:31 AM »
Quote
Last thing what benefits have you had from this meditation, if i will PLEASE as it would motivate me even more
Hi Babylon, even though knowing about benefits may be useful, and there are indeed many, I would still advice at this point not to bother about them at all. I am glad to know that you are going to try out the meditation explained here in the forum. It's difficult to say precisely after how much time we can observe the changes because of practicing a technique. However, I would say to give at least a minimum of three weeks of daily, consistent practice, before you evaluate whether the technique is proving beneficial to you. If you can wait up to 8 weeks, that would be excellent.
Let's go beyond this illusion, shall we?

Babylon A.D.

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Re: meditation do you suggest for...?
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2015, 07:12:37 PM »
Thanks Middleway
I appreciate it

Quote
Last thing what benefits have you had from this meditation, if i will PLEASE as it would motivate me even more
Hi Babylon, even though knowing about benefits may be useful, and there are indeed many, I would still advice at this point not to bother about them at all. I am glad to know that you are going to try out the meditation explained here in the forum. It's difficult to say precisely after how much time we can observe the changes because of practicing a technique. However, I would say to give at least a minimum of three weeks of daily, consistent practice, before you evaluate whether the technique is proving beneficial to you. If you can wait up to 8 weeks, that would be excellent.

Thanks Vivek will give it a month or two and see what happens.
Just have This urge to go from on to the other but i will try my best as i know by now i should
stick with one to get full benefits out of it.
Thanks

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
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  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • Buddhism is a practical psychology and philosophy, not a religion.
    • If you cling to view, you must know this limits your potential.
Re: meditation do you suggest for...?
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2015, 07:43:48 PM »
Sorry i will take as look at the meditation you suggested and keep and open mind about the breath.
Sounds like you guy's think breath is important for meditation so i will give it a try.

The breath is a gateway: reconnecting mind and body, calming mind, stabilising your entire system - you cannot directly experience the breath, you need to not have any concept of breath in your practice: in the beginning practice is all about experience beyond the thinking mind - when focussing on the breath, as per the instructions on the homepage, you are feeling the bodily sensations that arise from the breathing in and out. Only body can feel the breath. It is a physical and not a mental process.

Also (and because of the above) the instructions on the homepage will take you away from the thoughts in your mind, although you do not ignore them, they are just part of the "background music" to present moment experience ... and their influence will subside in time.

The meditative state depends on the day, as its never the same most of the time(You know that)
Some times 5 min then sometimes after 20 min but i do quiet my mind and the quality i guess its getting deeper.

I do feel some times my cells vibrate, feel very calm and relaxed.Of course it could always be better but it only helps during
Meditation and not in daily life were i need to calm relax and be alert so i could beat my anxiety and nervousness.
Also i am jurning(sorry for the spelling) for inner peace but i guess it will take time, i am really patient and know the inportance of being present
cause that helps me but it very difficult for me to be present in life as my mind still controls me.

Given the difficulty you have focussing on breath, with anxiety and sticking to practice I suggest you stop categorising and analysing these experiences. You also will benefit from forgetting about "meditative states". My suspicion is that you are inducing a mild hypnotic state - not entirely without benefit as it gives some limited relief from anxiety, yet, as you have realised, the effects have no lasting benefit.

Kindly,

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Babylon A.D.

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Re: meditation do you suggest for...?
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2015, 04:59:57 PM »
Sorry i will take as look at the meditation you suggested and keep and open mind about the breath.
Sounds like you guy's think breath is important for meditation so i will give it a try.

The breath is a gateway: reconnecting mind and body, calming mind, stabilising your entire system - you cannot directly experience the breath, you need to not have any concept of breath in your practice: in the beginning practice is all about experience beyond the thinking mind - when focussing on the breath, as per the instructions on the homepage, you are feeling the bodily sensations that arise from the breathing in and out. Only body can feel the breath. It is a physical and not a mental process.

Also (and because of the above) the instructions on the homepage will take you away from the thoughts in your mind, although you do not ignore them, they are just part of the "background music" to present moment experience ... and their influence will subside in time.

The meditative state depends on the day, as its never the same most of the time(You know that)
Some times 5 min then sometimes after 20 min but i do quiet my mind and the quality i guess its getting deeper.

I do feel some times my cells vibrate, feel very calm and relaxed.Of course it could always be better but it only helps during
Meditation and not in daily life were i need to calm relax and be alert so i could beat my anxiety and nervousness.
Also i am jurning(sorry for the spelling) for inner peace but i guess it will take time, i am really patient and know the inportance of being present
cause that helps me but it very difficult for me to be present in life as my mind still controls me.

Given the difficulty you have focussing on breath, with anxiety and sticking to practice I suggest you stop categorising and analysing these experiences. You also will benefit from forgetting about "meditative states". My suspicion is that you are inducing a mild hypnotic state - not entirely without benefit as it gives some limited relief from anxiety, yet, as you have realised, the effects have no lasting benefit.

Kindly,

Matthew

Hi  Matthew

Did not think of breath in that way.Wow makes allot of sense.

Don't know if its a hypnotic state but my mind goes blank(no thoughts) but yes it does not have lasting
benefits.I will try not to categorising and analysing these experiences but its going to be tought as i cant help
to be ecstatic when it happens.I see what you mean though and i will try not to.

Another thing i think i should stop is over doing meditations as i do it up to 5 times a day cause i feel i am way behind
schedule as i had to heal 10 years ago as i lost allot of time being this way and fear has ruined my life.
I now see the its a no no and will only do it twice a day

Thanks allot

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Member
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • Buddhism is a practical psychology and philosophy, not a religion.
    • If you cling to view, you must know this limits your potential.
Re: meditation do you suggest for...?
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2015, 10:09:40 PM »
Twice a day for 30 minutes is good foundation, up to an hour will benefit greatly but don't push it. The whole thing needs to be imbued with a relaxed yet wakeful state and rather than categorising just be aware of what is moment to moment. If course you will be drawn into thinking: the only way to distance is to get drawn in, notice and return to bodily sensations -without judging or self-criticism. This will take a few weeks to months to establish yet you have good foundations of motivation. Just drop that once it's got you to the cushion and see what is, moment to moment.

M
« Last Edit: July 25, 2015, 10:13:19 PM by Matthew »
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Babylon A.D.

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Re: meditation do you suggest for...?
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2015, 07:05:46 AM »
Thanks Matthew
I will do my best

 

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