Author Topic: Sit bone pain  (Read 4174 times)

salamander

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Sit bone pain
« on: January 20, 2015, 02:06:24 PM »
Howdy :)

The day before yesterday I was going for a walk and I noticed a not so severe  pain at my thigh. Later that day I wanted to meditate and as usually align my body to a proper posture (burmese position). I noticed that the pain was at the right the sitting bone - those are the bones I usually sit on (but only when I meditate). I searched the net and it seems like that it could be some hamstring tendon issue. I can reproduce the pain when I put pressure with my finger on the area. I don't have any pain anymore while walking only when sitting. So at least it seems to get better and is most probably nothing serious.

Still, I am wondering what to do. The pain is not so severe when I do sitting meditation. It is the most time quite tolerable so that in theory and practice I could sit on it while meditating. But on the other hand I'm a bit afraid that I could make things worse but I don't want to give in to this tolerable pain too easily? Yesterday I meditated in lying position because I didn't want to put pressure on the sitting bone. Today I sat in a chair meditation with a supporting wedge cushion and I almost had no pain at all.

It's just that I think my sitting meditation is most effective when sitting in burmese position and not sitting on a chair and not lying down. I don't want to give in too easily because of this pain.

What would you do? How would you tackle that?

Obol

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Re: Sit bone pain
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2015, 08:32:13 AM »
Hi Salamander,

Do you do yoga? This is quite a common problem for people who do intense yoga - it usually comes from doing forward bends incorrectly. If you do do yoga, change your forward bending such that you perform the bend with absolutely straight legs, not locked though. Tense the quadriceps, and fold using your hip flexors. Strengthening the legs will help too - focus on strengthening the quads and hamstrings. Gentle stretching of the hamstrings can help too - if the muscle is too tight, it is easy to shift the tension of the posture into the tendon and bone attachment.

Have a look at David Keil's webstie, he has written a few articles on this - http://www.yoganatomy.com/2013/10/working-sit-bone-pain-achy-hamstrings/

Stretching and strengthening will help even if its not yoga related.

Alex

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Re: Sit bone pain
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2015, 09:20:55 AM »
Hi Sala

I wonder what you mean when you say your meditation is most effective when sitting in Burmese position...

What would you do?

I would do what we train for in the meditation: try to open up to what is happening... How am I relating (or reacting) to all of this? The pain, the tendency to want meditation to be effective, the tendency to try to resolve such issues cognitively, maybe forgetting that it's okay to be kind to myself, etc.

Give some space to all of this and explore experientally...

salamander

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Re: Sit bone pain
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2015, 12:18:40 PM »
Hi Alex,

I feel like that my concentration is deeper when sitting in burmese style instead of sitting on a chair or lying down but I am not all too sure about that. That's why I tend to say its more effective in burmese position.

salamander

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Re: Sit bone pain
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2015, 12:23:13 PM »
Hi Obol,

Hi Salamander,

Do you do yoga?


Nope I do not do yoga. But I am not very flexible (indeed i'm very unflexible) so that maybe when sitting in burmese position those hamstring tendons get overstrecthed a bit or got little tears in them.

Quote from: Obol
Have a look at David Keil's webstie, he has written a few articles on this - http://www.yoganatomy.com/2013/10/working-sit-bone-pain-achy-hamstrings/

Stretching and strengthening will help even if its not yoga related.

I will try that out.
:)

Alex

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Re: Sit bone pain
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2015, 12:58:50 PM »
Hi Alex,
I feel like that my concentration is deeper when sitting in burmese style instead of sitting on a chair or lying down but I am not all too sure about that. That's why I tend to say its more effective in burmese position.

Not being sure is great!  ;)

I'm curious... Your answer suggests that concentration is what you're looking for in meditation and that when you 'reach' that concentration you consider your meditation to be effective?
I also wonder, how do you handle not being concentrated in meditation?

salamander

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Re: Sit bone pain
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2015, 09:08:56 PM »
Hi Alex,
I feel like that my concentration is deeper when sitting in burmese style instead of sitting on a chair or lying down but I am not all too sure about that. That's why I tend to say its more effective in burmese position.

Not being sure is great!  ;)

I'm curious... Your answer suggests that concentration is what you're looking for in meditation and that when you 'reach' that concentration you consider your meditation to be effective?
I also wonder, how do you handle not being concentrated in meditation?

If I am not concentrated then I am just aware of my unconcentrated mind. I don't force my mind to be concentrated but If my mind gets concentrated I can observe my objects of consciousnesses (thoughts/feelings etc..) in kind of slow-motion so that it is easier to see their nature. It's easier to see the rising and cessation of my thoughts.

I am myself wondering what I am doing. I feel like I'm doing unstructured meditation instead of vipassana.
Maybe I should open a new thread regarding this.

Alex

  • Member
Re: Sit bone pain
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2015, 08:11:12 AM »
If I am not concentrated then I am just aware of my unconcentrated mind.

Hi salamander

The image of a string of a stringed musical instrument is often used to describe the delicate balance between concentration/tension and open awareness/relaxation: too much tension, and the sound will be off-key, too loose and there will be no sound at all.

On retreats I tend to focus/concentrate more during the first few days until the mind is more calm. That is also a nice feeling, and sometimes this is something we're trying to re-create, maybe even in subtle ways like needing certain postures to be more concentrated?

I don't know what you mean exactly by the quote above… Does it mean that if you're not concentrated, you can't discern sensations, thoughts, feelings, etc at all… so, it's just one 'bundle of unconcentratedness'? Or, is this more like a judgment: I'm just aware of my unconcentrated mind, where you have all of these processes that yousee, but you're not able to follow (arising and ceasing) clearly? It feels like a busy train station (or something like that), where you might have the feeling "it's not supposed to be like this"?
I think that knowing that your mind is unconcentrated and being able to be aware of that is great! If the mind is unconcentrated, that is simply your present moment experience.  It's even a very good workout, right? Trying to remain present while all these things are happening and distracting you, seducing you to react to, identify with and proliferate these processes… Or do you mean something else?

Maybe all of this is related to the issue of "unstructured" meditation that you maybe wanted to start a tthread about. What do you mean by that? What do you think meditation should be like?

I hope you don't mind me asking all these questions. I'm simply very interested to learn how all this is for a fellow human being...

;)

salamander

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Re: Sit bone pain
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2015, 01:44:00 PM »
Hi Alex :)

Thank you for your questions. They help me to reflect my practice.

To me unstructured meditation means to have no constant object of awareness. You don't stick to any object of consciousness. This does not mean that your consciousness is empty of objects. It just means that you don't have a primary object of awareness.

Using your analogy which I find very useful if I do that kind of meditation there is almost no concentration/tension so the "meditation-sound" would be off-key.

This is in contrast to structured meditation which means to me that you have a (primary) object of consciousness and stick to it, for example anapanasati. Just being aware of the sensations of the breath.

I myself need to define what technique I want to practice. I think it's going to be anapanasati at first at least as a stable foundation. But I know that you cannot separate anapanasati from vipassana or vice versa far as I understand like a coin where you also have heads or tails always on the other side. I need to calm my mind first and then practice vipassana. It's amazing to see how anapanati is depriving my mind of energy. It also seems to make me happy at times.

When I am not concentrated I think i'm identified with my thoughts and feelings. And they carry me away wherever they are pulling me. In essence it's unstructured meditation as described above. It's going nowhere. I think it's quite random in thise case to be either relaxed or concentrated or to be neither concentrated nor relaxed depending on the circumstances.

Alex

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Re: Sit bone pain
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2015, 12:27:08 PM »
I understand what you mean: a calme and stable mind is a foundation. It's also great to find calmness in more concentrative practice and it's more difficult to remain present without identifying with all that comes along when awareness is more open, similar to in daily life.

Coming back to what we originally talked about: do you think posture has an influence on the amount of concentration/structure?

salamander

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Re: Sit bone pain
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2015, 01:31:03 PM »
Quote from: Alex
Coming back to what we originally talked about: do you think posture has an influence on the amount of concentration/structure?

Yes I do think that but maybe I will disprove myself sometime regarding this. It could also be that the posture to which I am accustomed to brings about a concentrative mind  easier than an uncommon posture.

In essence: If I habituate to a posture it brings concetration more easily. But this, then, is not restricted to any posture what so ever.

What do you think?

Alex

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Re: Sit bone pain
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2015, 02:04:05 PM »
I do think there is a connection, but to what extent? Lying down, you are more inclined to relax. But burmese posture or a chair, I don't think that it makes a difference because of the posture itself. Confidence that it's a good posture, maybe. There may also be an aspect of conditioning or habituation like you said.

It does not help however to find a general rule. How all this works in your experience and how you relate to that is important, I guess.

I would, in case I have a certain pain and I'm not sure if I'm making it worse, choose to be kind to myself and care for my body. Even if this means that meditation might be a little less concentrated. Progress comes in all shapes and sizes, so becoming more aware of how you deal with all of this, is equally interesting to explore.

Just A Simple Guy

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Re: Sit bone pain
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2015, 02:18:56 PM »
I sit in an office chair. I lock it so the seat doesn't tilt and the arms lift up and out of the way so they don't interfere with my elbows. I place a folded towel on the back portion of the seat bottom to raise my hips up a little higher. Against most advice I allow my upper back to gently rest against the chair back.

I find this the most comfortable position and it seems to allow a great deal of focus when attending whatever it is I'm attending. I think the key is a position and posture that allows maximum comfort without being so relaxed as to cultivate torpor or drowsiness.
“Research your own experience. Absorb what is useful, reject what is useless, add what is essentially your own.” ~ Bruce Lee

Matthew

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Re: Sit bone pain
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2015, 05:51:23 PM »
Salamander,

You can sit Burmese with a blanket or two folded under your backside or a cushion. It gives a good "tripod" with the knees and backside and lifts the pelvis to a healthier tilt. Try different heights until you relieve the pain.

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

 

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