Forum Issue: Question about locking thread

[VinceField]

Talk about anything and everything in this board - within reason. Also: forum issues: questions, suggestions and requests.

I opened a thread about Buddhist interpretations of Christianity and it was locked because it was "off-topic" and "not conductive to harmonious discussion."

As far as the description of this sub-forum indicates, this is an area for off-topic conversation: "Talk about anything and everything."  The topic clearly relates to Buddhism, so the only sense that the thread was off-topic is that it was actually on topic in an off-topic section.  There are plenty of threads that are far more off-topic than the one I started.

Is it really all that unreasonable to discuss how a certain topic is viewed in Buddhist philosophy? 

I see no reason why this cannot be discussed in a civilized and respectful manner.  I believe it was a poor decision to lock the thread.  I opened the same thread over at Dhamma Wheel and it is already off to a great start with insightful and respectful posts and no objections thus far.  Have a little faith my man. 

[Matthew]

Enjoy the thread at Dhamma wheel. You have form here for seeding disharmony.

PS I'm not "your man" or your "buddy"

[Dharmic Tui]

Im wondering why Vince is here considering other larger nicer forums apparently accept and accommodate him better. Seems masochistic.

[siddharthgode]

Enjoy the thread at Dhamma wheel. You have form here for seeding disharmony.

PS I'm not "your man" or your "buddy"

That was harsh 

Dude vince plz stop posting anything and everything and expect us to discuss it... It's waste of time and at least I'm least bothered to post these days because of your useless discussions. Discuss about practice and help others walk on the path. That is what the forum is for.. Stop filling up forum with crap.

[Matthew]

That was harsh 

This not?:

Dude vince plz stop posting anything and everything and expect us to discuss it... It's waste of time and at least I'm least bothered to post these days because of your useless discussions. Discuss about practice and help others walk on the path. That is what the forum is for.. Stop filling up forum with crap.

[VinceField]

Enjoy the thread at Dhamma wheel.
PS I'm not "your man" or your "buddy"

I'm sorry to hear that.  Not sorry because I want you to be my friend, but sorry because your dislike (or apathy at best) towards me is a sign of a degree of aversion and suffering.  If this is in fact the case, I truly hope you overcome this and find a higher level of unconditioned happiness.

One thing that I learned before studying Buddhist philosophy, but that is especially reinforced by Buddhist teachings, is the importance of having metta towards everyone, even those you may disagree with.  The truth of this way of perceiving and treating others is a proven fact in my experience in it's ability to create happiness for all parties involved.  One thing I make a point to do is forgive everyone, myself included, all the time, for all unwholesome activities big and small alike.  This instantly generates a feeling of love towards the person and eliminates any chance of an unwholesome state from arising. 

PS I am enjoying it.  They are very kind, helpful and insightful. 

Discuss about practice and help others walk on the path. That is what the forum is for.. Stop filling up forum with crap.

Perhaps you have missed some of my more recent posts.  I actually make it a point to help others when I believe I can with any insight and/or experience regarding the practices on the path that I may have.  In fact, lately I seem to be one of the only ones on this forum offering practical advice regarding meditation practices.  For example, the threads "concentration in Shamatha," "Practising ONE meditation or several types," "Evaluating whether your current meditation technique is working/suitable for you," "Question about "outward" meditation," "My pressing question and doubt: concentration," "What is the best practice?," ect...  I could go on.  All with practical advice to help those in need to the best of my current ability.  I suppose deluded minds see only what they want to see.  I forgive you for your harsh and false words. 

Im wondering why Vince is here considering other larger nicer forums apparently accept and accommodate him better.

I like to get as wide a range of input as possible when researching or investigating areas of interest. 

[Dharmic Tui]

This Sangha should be teaching you something by now that seems lost on you. Seems a bit self interested to cause so much disharmony for your own fact finding aims.

[Phaedros]

 

[Matthew]

Vince, your last post include 17 references to yourself and 5 to others. Go figure.

When you reference me as "my man" or "buddy" you are, in the first case claiming ownership of me, and in the second being overly familiar. Go figure.

No one else posting? Ah! - Vince is on the case: as a number of people have posted that is enough for them to stay away from any discussion. Go figure.

(In case you can't work out what I'm getting at it's that you are clearly a narcissist and have NO CLUE what ego dissolution might be as you use this forum, other forums and practice to bolster your ego).

Edit: Vince, please accept my apologies for the bluntness of the words above. I want to rephrase it somewhat:

You do seem to have a tendency to "use" the Dhamma and forums/discussion to subtlety reinforce certain ideas you came here with. The thread on Buddhist views of Christianity appears to be a rehash of your previous post on Buddhist views of God. The Dhamma is clear on views of this category, naming them a "thicket" of views: that is to say something you get entangled and lost in.

Buddhist meditation is about seeing through such things and seeing through your own clinging to them, it is subtle, "hard to discern".

At the moment it seems you are having a jolly old time raising the same subjects in different forums. It does not seem that, in the short time you have been practising, there has been any substantive change in your understanding of your own way of manifesting and perceiving based on insight into the skhandas or the three marks of existence. You've been a member here since the end of April, have repeatedly ended up in the same dynamic and constantly blamed others (in a slightly subtle but actually transparent way) e.g.:

I truly hope you overcome this

You don't seem to realise that it may be you that needs to overcome your own attitude to Dhamma and discussion - this is something you might "get", if you do then I look forward to a more truly open discussion, one where you do not try to own the debate. If you don't then I am uncertain that your continued participation here is helping you or anyone else.

Matthew

[Dharmic Tui]

I'm trying to think of a word that sums up the detachment between actual sincerity and words.

It reminds me of a staff member I had to talk to about customer service and doing right by people this week. We've had to talk about this a lot, rather than present openness and a willingness to remove the burden from the customer, they instead act defensive and have a stoic need to tell customers they're wrong (i.e. they put way too much of themselves into the conversation, rather than actually listening to customers and help them). Their perspective was "I don't see what the problem is, I've always prided myself on being polite". There's a big difference between saying just saying "please" and "thank you", and actively listening to people, acknowledging them, and taking their problem away. The latter concept seems totally beyond them, like they're incapable of putting the shoe on the other foot at all. But I will keep trying, or find another home for them.

Likewise I hear words like metta, forgiveness, peace, pleasantries at the end of a post, etc, but they just seem like words. And I wonder if actual realisation of the true meaning of the words can be reached if you just repeat them enough, or whether realisation has to be via other means, or whether it's possible at all.

[Quardamon]

I'm trying to think of a word that sums up the detachment between actual sincerity and words.

Detachment between how people see themselves and how they actually behave is called attitude-behaviour inconsistency or attitude/behavior gap.

[VinceField]

I offer my sincere wishes that everyone here may find real peace and happiness within themselves and allow this to be shared with others.  It may be of some significance that the reactions by some members here do not arise in any other online community, nor in actual life, and that the conversations I engage in elsewhere (of the same nature) are received openly, kindly, respectfully and non-judgementally.  Much metta to you all, especially those who need it most.

[Matthew]

Cross posted an edit while you posted Vince, you've done again exactly what I referred to therein.

[Dharmic Tui]

It's only words
And words are all I have
To take your heart away

[siddharthgode]

I really don't understand how some can be soo stuburn to even have a little look at them self. Everyone is on point in explaining what's wrong with you and your attitude. Plz have a look.

I really like Tui's way of putting it. Matthew is on point with the problem. This exactly the problem we had with red alert.

[Dharmic Tui]

This exactly the problem we had with red alert.

I have on a number of occasions had to check myself that I am not letting one experience taint the other. Perhaps closer to truth is two similar personalities with one experience leading to the expedition of the other. So now I am left with a conundrum on how to proceed. Is it just like a mental aberration where if you give it attention you solidify and perhaps amplify it, damaging the Sangha? Or will a different approach lead to actual insight?

I think perhaps the first option is the wiser. All that the other approach yields is further entrenchment into delusion and stoicism. Now we have a polite "f you all, some other, totally unrelated forum disagrees with you (although humorously, there are similar rumblings there, just not as blunt) so I'll not be listening to any of you or modifying anything". You can't reason with that, so continuing to do so is only going to cause greater friction. It is not time for this person to gain true insight, or even have honest and open discourse. Perhaps some future time.

[VinceField]

"f you all, some other, totally unrelated forum disagrees with you (although humorously, there are similar rumblings there, just not as blunt) so I'll not be listening to any of you or modifying anything".

This is quite a falsehood my friend.  I am speaking of Buddhist forums and facebook pages with members sharing most of the same beliefs and engaged in the same spiritual practices as anyone else here, with much higher levels of traffic I might add. 

Do you think the three or four members here who have been clinging to the need to detract from the topics at hand to call me out when in reality I have done nothing to hurt anyone are more enlightened than the thousands of others with similar beliefs and practices witnessing and engaging in the same discussion topics?  Can you see something that these others are incapable of perceiving?  Does your urge to color me in a certain way and constantly make a fuss about nothing come from an enlightened state of mind that all these others individuals just cannot access? 

No fusses have been made anywhere else, and guess what?  Our conversations flow without resistance, negativity, disputes, or disharmony.  In fact, rather informative and beneficial discussions result at other forums, whereas here, those same exact threads quickly turn into disharmony and needless personal attacks.  If you want this forum to be harmonious, guess what.  It's not my problem.  I am a contributing member of several other online communities, discussing the same exact topics, yet only here is there disharmony.  If you can't see the connection, you may need to look deeper.

As an example, the thread about Christianity was instantly blocked here.  At another forum an informative discussion was generated from it that myself and possibly others learned from.  On a Thanissaro Bhikkhu facebook group the same question was greeted with "Great question!" and an polite and informative discussion ensued.  There are many other threads that something very similar can be said about.  The fact that the same threads that I start here that result in disharmony are harmoniously carried out at all other locations speaks volumes.  The fact that not once have I been judged anywhere else in the light and with the frequency that a few here judge me in also speaks volumes.  You are not Buddhas capable of seeing that which others cannot see.  You are simply blinded by your own prejudices. 

Perhaps the difference is the members elsewhere are not hung up on name calling and petty character judgements, and perhaps have not been brainwashed into seeing everything I say as egotistic, and so they are not deluded by their metal fabrications and are able to carry out lengthy threads in peace and harmony while staying on topic, responding to my same questions and ideas in a polite, healthy, harmonious manner without needing to attack my personality or perceived intentions.  I wish those here guilty of such unwholesome activities learn to move beyond it and realize the peace and happiness that will result from sharing metta with all beings. 

[Quardamon]

If you want this forum to be harmonious, guess what.  It's not my problem.

That sums it up nicely.

[Matthew]

Or perhaps it's because we are a smaller community that your egoism is rather transparent here? You stick out like a sore thumb whereas elsewhere you are currently lost in the crowd.

Either way you've been given a lot of leeway and refuse to engage with genuine feedback.

You have made your opinions clear and sucked energy from the forum for long enough. You criticise individuals and try to denigrate this forum with your put downs.

It's a very strange thing that this forum has been in the top three search results for 'Meditation forum' at Google for six years and ten months straight given your portrayal.

Perhaps those sites you visit with much higher traffic levels are missing something this place offers which has deep value; value you are incapable of recognising at this point in your development?

The Buddha taught not to associate with people you didn't find harmony with. Clearly you aren't happy here and it's more than four people who are unhappy with your style of engagement so for the benefit of all it's time to say goodbye and best wishes.

Edit: you are really adept at fooling yourself. Your thread at another forum on "where is God in Buddhism" has been locked after causing disharmony. Your thread at the same forum on Meditation and lucid dreaming saw you roundly trashed for your contradictory statements.

And Sid really can see the future 

Hey guys i can see the future now !!!!! 

"VinceField is banned from the forum" 

I'm sure other forms with higher traffic will catch up with you in time. Perhaps then you might see the "beam in your own eye" when you've been banned from a few others.

Looking forward to reading a copy of your book on UFO's and ET's 

[yossarian]

Looking forward to reading a copy of your book on UFO's and ET's 

 

[Matthew]

Looking forward to reading a copy of your book on UFO's and ET's 

 

Satire is the natural religion of the English. It's a hard habit to break.

Vince will remain banned for a few days to allow members to raise unease, arguments or objections against permanent deletion. If any member wishes to speak do not hold back: banning or deleting member accounts is not an action that is taken lightly - my ears are open to listen, as are my mind and heart open to change. PM or public if you have something to say I thank you in advance for taking the opportunity.

(That isn't satirical)

Matthew

[shu]

This forum and Vince obviously aren't a good mixture at this time. A big community may be able to handle very loud people but in small places like this it can happen that you hear nothing else anymore. Since his behaviour was discussed in length for several months and he was warned and had his chances and nothing changed, I think the deletion is ok. Otherwise this discussion will keep eating way too much room and in my view the forum would suffer from this (as it already has for the last few months).

Edit to add: It's not only about the discussion taking away too much room, but I can't see that anybody does profit from an ongoing discussion. It seems to be useless at this time.

[Dharmic Tui]

I would have to agree with the ban. The leash is perhaps a little short compared to the past but this is an insight discussion forum and Vince lacks the ability to discuss openly or display much insight. This isn't a place to be guarded,  proud, or unempathetic. There is no net benefit to the Sangha.

[Matthew]

Shu - thank you for your comments. I see you see clearly the situation. It's not Vince the person, it's some of his behaviour in the context of this community.

DT - The timing is appropriate. This is where we were a month ago from today:

He has a choice to accept that many people saying the same thing about him says something about him and not them.

Then he has a choice to either take that on and change or if he is not willing he can leave.

Last thing would be to ban him but yes, it's a possibility. I have been asked to do so by some members.

I don't think there is any need for further confirmation of the sense that Vince's behaviours at this point in time are not conducive to the space. I will leave the matter until Friday now for anyone who sees things differently to make themselves heard.

[siddharthgode]

And Sid really can see the future 

Lol just a joke. I can just identify the people who never change or learn.... So outcome can only be 1 and easy to see..