Author Topic: Stopping striving or not?  (Read 28247 times)

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
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Re: Stopping striving or not?
« Reply #150 on: August 07, 2014, 12:59:28 AM »
No problem buddy.  Google always works, but here's a link to some information about the niyamas if you're not in the mood to do a quick search:

Vince, perhaps you are not really aware of how the above comes across. Could you please stop the passive aggressive put-downs buddy ?

Don't be silly, it was not a put down. :angel: Simply a subtle way to suggest that rather than relying on others for information, the answers to some of our questions are well within our own reach, as we have a world of information at our fingertips.  I didn't want to come right out and say stop being lazy ...

Vince, you do this regularly so please stop kidding yourself.  If you "didn't want to come right out and say stop being lazy" then what you have said, as well as your chosen form of addressing is patronising and passive aggressive.

You chose to ignore the thread where your behaviour was the focus when it rather went against you. Since then you have been doing the same thing with a slight moderation in behaviour but nothing to show you actually learned anything from that except how to hide (a bit).
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Middleway

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Re: Stopping striving or not?
« Reply #151 on: August 07, 2014, 02:32:14 AM »
I'm not sure if I my word will be the last, but I do have something to say.  But thanks for giving me the option.  ;D

Quote
"from a Buddhist perspective, natural disasters such as earthquakes are not caused by karma".

This seems to be the opinion of the writer.  I'm not sure how much of an authority he is on the subject.  It would seem that there are some very prominent Buddhist monks who may disagree with this.  My viewpoint based on my understanding of the teachings is that the earthquake itself was not necessarily caused by the niyama of karma, but it is karma which determines how individuals are affected by the earthquake.  Perhaps one person survives the earthquake and a person next to him gets crushed by a falling rock.  That would seem to be the result of one's karma.  The other four niyamas created the event but karma determines how one is affected. 

I haven't come across a teaching of the Buddha saying that one may reap that which one has not sown, but rather the teaching is that one reaps that which one has sown. 

The author of the article is a she by the way. I looked up the author's profile given as link in the same article, she seems to have a very good background in Buddhism.

The purpose of my questions about Niyamas and their interlinks was to better understand your position on karma. Anyways, it seems to me that the entire basis of your position on karma is a vague commentary given by Thannissaro Bikkuh on a Sutta that was attributed to Buddha after the fact. This is a slippery slope that eventually ends up in blind beliefs which Buddha fought against his entire life.

Take everything I say with a grain of salt.

VinceField

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Re: Stopping striving or not?
« Reply #152 on: August 07, 2014, 03:56:28 AM »
Based on the conversations that I've started at various other online locations, it would appear that there is no consensus on this issue.  I have heard from at least just as many people who share opinion that there are no personal events outside of the influence of karma as I've heard from those who believe this is not the case.  The suttas seem to be somewhat unclear on the issue.  I believe that the Buddha taught that a basic understanding of karma was crucial to the path so that one understands the impact that one's actions have on their own life and on the lives of others, but we have crossed that line and stepped into the imponderable realm. 

Now that I see just how spit Buddhists are on the issue, it seems a clear answer will not be found and I'm satisfied leaving it alone.  If I discovered that my opinion was wrong and that the points supporting it were invalid, I don't think I'd loose much sleep.  But I'd certainly be curious as to how the Buddha's teaching that you reap what you sow holds up when there are other forces which cause one to reap the exact opposite of what has been sown.  It doesn't seem to fit in with the teachings that a person can accumulate nothing but good karma and yet be met with disaster and chaos outside of the influence of past negative karma. 

Middleway

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Re: Stopping striving or not?
« Reply #153 on: August 07, 2014, 05:19:24 AM »

But I'd certainly be curious as to how the Buddha's teaching that you reap what you sow holds up when there are other forces which cause one to reap the exact opposite of what has been sown.  It doesn't seem to fit in with the teachings that a person can accumulate nothing but good karma and yet be met with disaster and chaos outside of the influence of past negative karma. 

Go ask any farmer. They will tell you they don't reap what they sow every single time despite their best efforts.
Take everything I say with a grain of salt.

Dharmic Tui

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Re: Stopping striving or not?
« Reply #154 on: August 07, 2014, 05:47:38 AM »
Bad things happen to good people all the time. Theres like a small percentage of justice out there, but it doesn't perform in a uniform way.

It's a mistake to put it all in the same basket. Correlation, meet causation.

Middleway

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Re: Stopping striving or not?
« Reply #155 on: August 07, 2014, 05:53:24 AM »
Based on the conversations that I've started at various other online locations, it would appear that there is no consensus on this issue.
You are not just wasting our time then!
Take everything I say with a grain of salt.

Obol

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Re: Stopping striving or not?
« Reply #156 on: August 07, 2014, 07:59:45 AM »
What I am speaking of is fundamental truth, not mere generalities.


When people say things like this, it makes me suspicious.

VinceField

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Re: Stopping striving or not?
« Reply #157 on: August 07, 2014, 02:38:55 PM »
Based on the conversations that I've started at various other online locations, it would appear that there is no consensus on this issue.
You are not just wasting our time then!

What you choose to do with your time is your responsibility.  It is a mistake to blame others for what you choose to focus on.

What I am speaking of is fundamental truth, not mere generalities.

When people say things like this, it makes me suspicious.

Don't be confused, I was not claiming to know the fundamental truth.  Rather, I was simply stating that the discussion was directed towards finding the fundamental truth regarding this topic, rather than simply what may appear to the deluded eye.


Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Staff
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: Stopping striving or not?
« Reply #158 on: August 07, 2014, 03:25:35 PM »
Based on the conversations that I've started at various other online locations, it would appear that there is no consensus on this issue.  I have heard from at least just as many people who share opinion that there are no personal events outside of the influence of karma as I've heard from those who believe this is not the case.  The suttas seem to be somewhat unclear on the issue.  I believe that the Buddha taught that a basic understanding of karma was crucial to the path so that one understands the impact that one's actions have on their own life and on the lives of others, but we have crossed that line and stepped into the imponderable realm.

That line was crossed a long time ago. No in-depth understanding of Khamma is possible for the unenlightened. Knowledge of the four truths and eightfold path are crucial to the path. Understanding your thoughts, words and actions will result in consequences is about as much as you need to know about Khamma to apply oneself to following the path based on understanding the four truths.


The trouble with this whole discussion is that knowledge of one's own rebirths and of the law of khamma are described in the texts as supernatural (or supra-mundane) faculties obtained by the arahant upon attaining the goal. As none of us has reached this point the discussion is falling often into the category of "speculative views" which are themselves an obstacle to progress.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Middleway

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  • Just be a witness.
    • Vipassana as taught by Mr. Goenka - Switched to Shamatha
Re: Stopping striving or not?
« Reply #159 on: August 07, 2014, 04:46:49 PM »
Based on the conversations that I've started at various other online locations, it would appear that there is no consensus on this issue.
You are not just wasting our time then!

What you choose to do with your time is your responsibility.  It is a mistake to blame others for what you choose to focus on.

Will do. I will put you on my ignore list going forward until I see your posts contribute to a constructive discussion on this forum as opposed to useless bickering.
Take everything I say with a grain of salt.

Dharmic Tui

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Re: Stopping striving or not?
« Reply #160 on: August 08, 2014, 05:28:13 AM »
It's a good thing the veracity of Vipassana doesn't rest on all this stuff.

Very interesting how little self inquiry seems to be going on.

 

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