Author Topic: Where is God in Buddhism?  (Read 16181 times)

Dharmic Tui

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Re: Where is God in Buddhism?
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2014, 08:14:41 PM »
The replies in here are kind of aggressive. Relax guys!  >:(
A conversation with two diametrically opposed modes of thought is always going to be a challenge. There may be no middle ground between a mind which approaches existence and thought as impermanent and one which attaches and makes real the combination of experience, thought and emotion. Especially if it involves matters of where I come from, where I am, and where I'm going. These things matter only if you need them to.

Quardamon

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Re: Where is God in Buddhism?
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2014, 10:42:49 PM »
In reaction to your original post:

If I understand well, you are asking where you stand relative to Buddhist philosophy - or even relative to Gautama - and relative to other forum members.

I talked about your post with my wife, who is a Christian. She reacted quite radically: "For a Christian, God is higher than nirvana." "There are Christians who hope to go to paradise after this life, but also for them, God is higher than paradise."

Sakyamuni lived in a time and place when there were several different schools of thought, different philosophies. He defended his philosophy against those of other schools of thought. To really understand his ideas, it helps to know those different philosophies.

A quote from wikipedia: "Brahmā Sahampati, said to be the most senior of the Mahābrahmās, was the deity who invisibly attended on the Buddha when he attained enlightenment, and when the Buddha was meditating at Uruvelā afterwards, encouraged him to teach the Dharma to humans." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahm%C4%81_%28Buddhism%29)
(And, for proper understanding: "There is no identity between the Buddhist Brahmās and the Hindu conception of brahman as an all-encompassing divine force.")
I mean to say: In Asiatic Buddhism Gods are acknowledged - but they are not seen as the highest. They are seen as beings that incarnate. The goal of Gautama was to go beyond that.

I am glad to see, that you can have such strong experiences as you described, and  still be a reasonable person. Not everyone can handle experiencing God or emptiness or other such out-of-the-ordinary but very basic experiences.

And no, I never had such a direct experience of God. I had a few times that I did not breathe, that it felt unnatural to me to breathe air. (One minute, maybe three. And over 30 years ago.) But breath has no religious meaning for me, so that was easier to handle, I suppose. And it did not occur to me to get frightened. That was practical. ;)

Cheers.

VinceField

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Re: Where is God in Buddhism?
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2014, 02:33:42 AM »
I think it's important to have a balanced and realistic perspective.  My own personal opinion is that no religion contains complete truth.  I believe that Buddhism, Christianity, and Hinduism all have aspects that they could lend to one another to make a more wholesome theology and practice. 

I understand the impermanent and impersonal nature of the self and reality as a concept and even as experienced to an extent, as is taught in Buddhism, but on the other hand I have personally experienced the nature of the fundamental underlying fabric that comprises and connects all consciousness and manifestations of consciousness and have witnessed a power greater than anything that I can put into words but that I have attempted to explain in previous posts on this thread, that which I called God for lack of a better word.  I have also experienced the reality of a whole realm of concepts that Buddhism doesn't speak of during my explorations in spiritual realities, but that Hinduism addresses to an extent.  I try my best to go into spiritual experiences without preconceived notions of what I will experience, and I certainly have not had any strong attachments to beliefs that would significantly influence my experiences.   

Most Buddhists I hear from speak a lot about concepts in which they do not have sufficient experience to be sure of and come from a place of belief rather than knowledge/wisdom gained from first hand experience.  In the case of this particular thread they may say that there is no validity to an experience like the one in question, or that something is wrong view or unwholesome, because of something they read, not because they have experienced the truth of what they say.   Many preach the Buddha's view without having the experience and wisdom to know if it is actually valid.  I have witnessed many individuals who preach the Buddha's path that are actually stuck in a rigid mindset and who blindly reject realms of experience of which they are ignorant of, and I believe that this is not wholesome. 

I believe Buddhism's main downfall is claiming that there is no self and no God, based on my experiences which demonstrated the reality of these concepts.  But I have an open mind about it, and will continue my Buddhist meditation practices in hopes of experiencing the nature of the Buddhist concepts of no-self and nibbana.  I will also continue to probe higher spiritual dimensions and deeper layers of my self to further my experiences and understandings of the nature of these realities.  I will continue to trust my experiences while working to purify my self and my views and will always take into consideration the ideas of those farther along the path than I am.  It's all a learning experience, and I certainly won't forgo potentially beneficial learning experiences just because of popular opinion of alleged ancient teachings.

Dharmic Tui

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Re: Where is God in Buddhism?
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2014, 10:34:31 AM »
Perspectives and balance is a concept most people struggle with. Sometimes there are more than one valid answers, sometimes one, and sometimes the answer is unverifiable. There is some degree of cross over with different faiths, but typically based mainly about moral questions which are at their core arbitrary. So that's where trying to make a melting pot of religions which are making ontological claims becomes problematic; if the veracity of the entire belief relies on the objective existence of one or many deities then ones going to be correct and the others not. Or none.

I used to have a reasonable passion for answering the questions of why, how, who and where, then I came to view them as factoids ultimately irrelevant to my life. I can see why it's important to others though.

Alexander

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Re: Where is God in Buddhism?
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2014, 10:46:40 AM »
Beliefs aren't useful. Knowledge is.

The Buddha did not deny "God" - mostly he refused to discuss the issue, yet when he did he stated "God" was subject to the laws of Karma and not "the creator".


What were the other issues Buddha did not discuss?

Quardamon

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Re: Where is God in Buddhism?
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2014, 12:20:29 PM »
What were the other issues Buddha did not discuss?
Alexander, you might search the web on the term "imponderables".
You will come to a text like this, from
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/study/kamma.html
 § 22.   "These four imponderables are not to be speculated about. Whoever speculates about them would go mad & experience vexation. Which four? The Buddha-range of the Buddhas [i.e., the range of powers a Buddha develops as a result of becoming a Buddha]... The jhana-range of one absorbed in jhana [i.e., the range of powers that one may obtain while absorbed in jhana]... The results of kamma... Speculation about [the first moment, purpose, etc., of] the cosmos is an imponderable that is not to be speculated about. Whoever speculates about these things would go mad & experience vexation."

Alexander

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Re: Where is God in Buddhism?
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2014, 09:08:17 AM »
Thank you. I couldn't think of the right word to google!

yossarian

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Re: Where is God in Buddhism?
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2014, 11:39:43 PM »
So if an unenlightened being such as me, or many of the other explorers of consciousness in higher spiritual realms, or individuals having near death experiences, if us laymen can gain glimpses into the true nature of God, why is there a disconnect from this in Buddhist philosophy?


Let's examine your assumption...

- That your experiences are valid due to your having experienced them.

This kind of extreme absolutism is difficult for any semi-skeptical westerner to accept. If subjective experience were enough to accurately describe reality, science would've never come into being because it wouldn't have been necessary.

One of the appeals of buddhism for myself and I think many others is that it strives toward a sense of objectivity. It is all about experiencing life i.e. how we think about, feel, and react to outside stimuli in a way that is disconnected from said thoughts, feelings and reactions.

With this established lets re-examine your post sans rhetorical flourishes. You say you experienced a strong sense of love while meditating that you associated with an intelligence outside of your own. What makes you think this intelligence exists anywhere other than your mind and in the minds of others who practice similar techniques and believe in similar things as you, like spirit bodies and astral travel? In your posts you often refer to astral travel. The buddha clearly called this the mind-body which means to me that he considered it imaginary, just like skeptics today do. "Astral travelers" have failed repeatedly to report back accurate information from their "travels" which tells me it's probably people playing mind games and tripping themselves out so...

it sounds to me like you're tripping yourself out and making the oft repeated error of interpreting your own subjective experience as objective reality. Hate to be a bummer...

To answer your initial questions within the framework of my post, the buddha talked about experiencing a deep sense of love towards all beings, he just didn't interpret it the same way you do. I know, I know, "if he'd had the same experience, he certainly would've had to interpret it the same way. It's simply the reality" sorry dude, that doesn't cut it in todays world unless you have some reliable external measurement that can verify your experience. Utilizing Occam's razor, doesn't it seem more likely that when people in general reach a threshold of deep relaxation, a portion of their nervous system activates that gives them a relaxed sense of peace and love? (i.e. the vagus nerve to which Matthew so loves to refer) One of the more interesting relatively recent scientific discoveries about meditation and prayer is that when you partake in such activities, you are deactivating the part of your brain that is responsible for spatial differentiation (perceiving yourself in relation to objects around you), which gives you the sense of "connectedness" that you describe.

I doubt seriously that you'll read this and change your opinion on the validity of your personal experience but if you do, don't feel bad. Even S.N. Goenka, who has introduced many, many people (including myself) to the valuable teachings of the buddha, misinterprets the experience of the nervous system and its constant state of flux (nerves are constantly mini-firing to maintain charge gradients) as "kalapas" or the disappearance and reappearance of the individual atomic particles of the body. This sort of thing happens all the time to everyone...  ;)
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 12:13:45 AM by yossarian »

VinceField

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Re: Where is God in Buddhism?
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2014, 02:06:58 AM »
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Hate to be a bummer...

Hey man, no apology necessary.  You are entitled to your opinion!  Of course, unless you have direct experience of the higher spiritual realms experienced during out of body and near death experiences, it is not likely that your opinion is going to hold much weight.  It's kind of like an advanced Buddhist meditator getting the opinion of the nature of his deep jhana states from an unpracticed skeptic of Buddhist meditation.    My hundreds of direct experiences in nonphysical dimensions spanning over half of my life have given me the experience, development, and insight to discern the validity and nature of these experiences.  You haven't presented any ideas that I haven't already explored.   

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Re: Where is God in Buddhism?
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2014, 02:11:15 AM »
My own personal opinion is that no religion contains complete truth.

How do you know that "no religion contains complete truth"? Do you know the truth? Thousands of enlightened people talked about the truth extensively which formed the basis of those religions you are trashing. Please contemplate on the audacity with which you make that statement.

I have personally experienced the nature of the fundamental underlying fabric that comprises and connects all consciousness and manifestations of consciousness and have witnessed a power greater than anything that I can put into words but that I have attempted to explain in previous posts on this thread, that which I called God for lack of a better word.  I have also experienced the reality of a whole realm of concepts that Buddhism doesn't speak of during my explorations in spiritual realities, but that Hinduism addresses to an extent.

Is it possible that you may not have completely understood the Buddhist or Hindu teachings?

Anyways, I am a beginner and you are far advanced in the path than I am at this point in time. I can only dream of the stage you have achieved thus far. If and when I get there, I hope I will remember this thread to ensure that it won't get into my head.

If you want a detailed explanation of what you have experienced, please read a book titled "I am That". It is freely available on the internet. The words in that book were spoken by an enlightened person to a predominantly western audience and were brilliantly translated by a  westerner who was also enlightened.

Warm regards,

Middleway
Take everything I say with a grain of salt.

yossarian

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Re: Where is God in Buddhism?
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2014, 02:22:23 AM »
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Hate to be a bummer...

Hey man, no apology necessary.  You are entitled to your opinion!  Of course, unless you have direct experience of the higher spiritual realms experienced during out of body and near death experiences, it is not likely that your opinion is going to hold much weight.  It's kind of like an advanced Buddhist meditator getting the opinion of the nature of his deep jhana states from an unpracticed skeptic of Buddhist meditation.    My hundreds of direct experiences in nonphysical dimensions spanning over half of my life have given me the experience, development, and insight to discern the validity and nature of these experiences.  You haven't presented any ideas that I haven't already explored.

The fact that you interpret that as an apology and choose it as the only point to directly address is interesting to say the least...

Also, I'm not an unpracticed skeptic of buddhist meditation. I think that science has roughly been able to show that buddhist meditators are in fact accomplishing their goals (happier, less reactive, more compassionate etc)

In fact, I've experienced states similar to what's described as jhana but I don't ascribe anything special to it, it's just relaxation stimulating serotonin and dopamine transmission along with probably other neurotransmitters involved in the reward pathway of the brain that contribute to the sense of joy and rapture typically experienced.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11958969

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF01256514#page-1

What supreme knowledge do you bring back from these advanced realms of spiritual enlightenment, pray tell?   ;D
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 02:59:34 AM by yossarian »

VinceField

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Re: Where is God in Buddhism?
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2014, 03:01:01 AM »
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The fact that you interpret that as an apology and choose it as the only point to directly address is interesting to say the least...

I know it was not an apology, but the expression you used conveys regret, so I played on that in a joking manner.  I chose this one quote from your reply simply as a segue into my response, in which I addressed your previous post as a whole.  I believe I have said all I need to say regarding my experiences for now and am not interested in explaining or defending my viewpoint or experiences any further. 

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Also, I'm not an unpracticed skeptic of buddhist meditation.

If you had caught the analogy, I was actually saying that you appear to be an unpracticed skeptic of astral projection and the out of body state, the analogy being that just as an advanced Buddhist meditator takes the opinions of an inexperienced skeptic of Buddhist meditation lightly, or not at all, in regards to the nature of his own spiritual practice, so I take the opinions of those without sufficient first hand experience in the out of body state and related conceptual knowledge.   

If you would like to know what I have experienced and discovered during my journeys, I am currently half-way through writing a book about them.  I will most likely make it available for free in ebook format, so I can put you on the list of people to send the file to if you would like.   ;)
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 03:12:37 AM by VinceField »

yossarian

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Re: Where is God in Buddhism?
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2014, 03:14:21 AM »
Totally missed the analogy, that's what I get for scanning!  ::)

If you figure out a way to demonstrate measurable validity i.e. provide some evidence, then I'd certainly consider reading it... enthusiastically even.

Till then, keep trippin!  :D

VinceField

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Re: Where is God in Buddhism?
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2014, 07:23:42 AM »
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Till then, keep trippin!  :D

While I am not offended in the least at your repeated attempts to downgrade my spiritual practices and experiences to mere hallucination, I would like to share the idea with you that perhaps taking this approach is not the most wholesome way to go, especially having what I'm guessing by your comments is zero experiential knowledge of the matter.  Unnecessary comments such as this display a lack of respect for other people's beliefs, experiences, and feelings, but of course considerations such as these are often hidden beneath the ego's urges to push its opinions onto others and claim dominance, even if its something as simple as throwing that little jab in there at the end, as it would seem in this case.  To claim to know the nature of another individual's personal spiritual experiences is certainly not characteristic of one following the Buddha's philosophies, especially when coming from a place of ignorance.     

By the way, Buddhist meditation experiences are just as subjective as any other experience in altered states of consciousness, inside or outside of the confines of the human body.  And if you were knowledgeable on this subject you would be aware of the wide body of corroborative experiential evidence from countless researchers and explorers of out of body states and nonphysical reality systems, so perhaps judgement should be preserved for the wise.  But don't get me wrong my friend, I may speak my mind but I do so with love and a smile.  ;D

Re: Where is God in Buddhism?
« Reply #39 on: June 22, 2014, 11:19:26 AM »
please guys stop doing off topic arguments. No one is benefiting from this post. VinceFeild i don't think anyone had any experience close to what you are describing. No one is of any help to you here. Better drop the topic or consult any suitable guru you think is experienced and can help you and discuss with him.

I personally am not at all denying your experience. I just feel it to be pointless and useless when it comes to freeing the mind from its chains. You dont deny that you cannot retain these states of consciousness. If you return to the ordinary state of consciousness then what you experienced is temporary... the freedom you experienced is temporary. In Buddha's teaching finding enlightenment temporarily in different state of consciousness is useless and one has to find freedom in the ordinary everyday consciousness. That is what we all trying to do.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 11:24:29 AM by siddharthgode »

Matthew

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Re: Where is God in Buddhism?
« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2014, 05:53:42 PM »
...
I understand the impermanent and impersonal nature of the self and reality as a concept and even as experienced to an extent, as is taught in Buddhism, but on the other hand I have personally experienced the nature of the fundamental underlying fabric that ..... etc.

This is exactly the problem as I tried to explain in my earlier post. You have understood the concept of no-self and experienced it to some extent. If, as I suggested, you continue the exploration of phenomena instead of labeling experience as something objective belonging to self you wouldn't fall into the second part of the above.

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... have witnessed a power greater than anything that I can put into words but that I have attempted to explain in previous posts on this thread, that which I called God for lack of a better word.

If it's "greater than anything" you can put into words, why are you trying "to explain" it? That's surely a little pointless?

Also, as Sid points out:

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No one is benefiting from this post. VinceFeild i don't think anyone had any experience close to what you are describing. No one is of any help to you here. Better drop the topic or consult any suitable guru you think is experienced and can help you and discuss with him

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I certainly have not had any strong attachments to beliefs that would significantly influence my experiences.

Your determination to attribute ineffable experience to something you call "God"seems contradictory to this statement.

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I believe Buddhism's main downfall is claiming that there is no self and no God, based on my experiences which demonstrated the reality of these concepts.

This seems to contradict your earlier statement regarding understanding and having some experiential insight into the reality of " non-self " and your later claim to open mindedness and a will to continue exploration. Also your experience is no proof of the reality of these concepts, beyond that: personal concepts and nothing more.

I wonder if you would be prepared to admit that your interpretation of your experiences might be completely incorrect? That it may be nothing more than a combination of conscious and sub-conscious interpretation through the perceptual filters delivered to you wholesale by the society in which you were raised as well as those you have nurtured personally?
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

VinceField

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Re: Where is God in Buddhism?
« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2014, 06:30:25 PM »
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VinceFeild i don't think anyone had any experience close to what you are describing.

I was not looking for people with similar experiences.  I was simply looking to hear other member's ideas regarding the nature of God and their knowledge of Buddhist philosophies about God, as was clearly stated in my initial post.  Unfortunately many of them immediately went into attack mode (actually a projection of self-defense- actively defending one's own beliefs) because apparently they couldn't bear to allow someone to share an experience that doesn't fit into their belief system without speaking out against it, regardless of their lack of experience or knowledge of the matter. 

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finding enlightenment temporarily in different state of consciousness is useless

I would have to disagree based on my own experience.  My experiences in the out of body state, especially those in higher-level spiritual realms, have helped to shape a new conceptual framework and mindset within me regarding the nature of my self and reality.  Thanks to these experiences I believe I have a wiser and more knowledgeable perspective from which I view the world with.  I won't go into details regarding the specific knowledge I have gained, but I will say that I experience greater levels of tranquility, compassion, and joy in my daily life thanks to the worldview I have acquired from my experiences.  It is certainly a step in the right direction. 

Also, meditation in the out of body state allows one to access far deeper and profound states of consciousness than during normal waking meditations.  I propose that nibbana can be experienced during out of body meditation faster than during normal practice and be fully integrated into the waking state of consciousness.  After all, it is the same consciousness, just attuned to different levels of reality.  It is something I am currently exploring so I will report my findings if I get anywhere significant with it. 

Dharmic Tui

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Re: Where is God in Buddhism?
« Reply #42 on: June 22, 2014, 07:00:58 PM »
What would possess you to ask a community of people which clearly doesn't have deism as a core tenet where deism fits into their practice? I cant see how that's useful for anyone.

Also you're about the 10th person I've heard who've had an intimate and profound relationship with God who instead of substantiating that with a reasoned explanation or account have just said "I won't go into it, you can read about it in my book".

VinceField

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Re: Where is God in Buddhism?
« Reply #43 on: June 22, 2014, 07:38:36 PM »
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This is exactly the problem as I tried to explain in my earlier post. You have understood the concept of no-self and experienced it to some extent. If, as I suggested, you continue the exploration of phenomena instead of labeling experience as something objective belonging to self you wouldn't fall into the second part of the above.

Your statement is nothing more than opinion, and unless you have experienced these same higher levels of reality and the states that I have described within them, you cannot accurately make this claim.  We are talking about levels of reality far beyond the reach of the physical dimension and the physically-attuned self.  The descriptions of even the highest state of nibbana experienced within the physical realm of experience simply fall short of the often ungraspable nature of deeper nonphysical dimensions and the revelations and truths found within them.  In other words, the nature of nibbana experienced in less-dense, higher dimensions of reality could have an entirely different nature than what is attainable in the physical body/mind system, as much deeper layers of the self are be experienced in these higher states freed from the physical body than those within the confines of the dense physical body and mind. 

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Your determination to attribute ineffable experience to something you call "God"seems contradictory to this statement.

It may seem this way to you, but this is not the case.  Perhaps you are hung up on my use of the word God.  As I said before, it is just a label that most people can relate to, but the reality of what I experienced can be more accurately found in the descriptions.  I am not attributing my experience to anything, simply describing it as best I can.  Perhaps if I instead call it "All-Pervading Infinite and Eternal Core Intelligent Creative Unconditional Love Essence" I could avoid the false assumptions that my experiences have been interpreted through a thick, sticky belief in God. 

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I believe Buddhism's main downfall is claiming that there is no self and no God, based on my experiences which demonstrated the reality of these concepts.

This seems to contradict your earlier statement regarding understanding and having some experiential insight into the reality of " non-self " and your later claim to open mindedness and a will to continue exploration.

There is no contradiction.  I understand the concept of non-self, and have experienced the impersonal nature of phenomenon arising within me and around me.  However, I have also experienced a level of my self, my fundamental, core being that surpasses the physical dimension of experience.  These higher-level experiences transcend any physical concept or experience, but this is probably something that only proper experience in these states reveals.

My claim to open-mindedness is likewise uncontradicted.  Think about it.  I have had experiences that fly right in the face of one of the most fundamental aspects of Buddhist philosophy, and yet I am still open to the idea that I could be wrong and giving the practices an honest try.  I don't know what more you want from me, but let's be reasonable.

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I wonder if you would be prepared to admit that your interpretation of your experiences might be completely incorrect?

This is indeed possible.  Of course, this applies to every aspect of the human experience.  My interpretation of my daily life could be radically flawed for all I know.  All of our experienced sense data is tainted by our mental constructs.  But I am actively doing my best to be clear of distortions, which is more than a lot of people can say. 

VinceField

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Re: Where is God in Buddhism?
« Reply #44 on: June 22, 2014, 08:07:29 PM »
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What would possess you to ask a community of people which clearly doesn't have deism as a core tenet where deism fits into their practice? I cant see how that's useful for anyone.

Firstly, not everyone on this board is a Buddhist fundamentalist.  Everyone has their own unique systems of belief, and being that the Buddha taught experience over blind belief, I would expect that many would be inclined to make up their own minds about the issue, especially those with some kind of experience of the nature.  Why this information is useful for me is irrelevant and not something I care to justify. 

Also you're about the 10th person I've heard who've had an intimate and profound relationship with God who instead of substantiating that with a reasoned explanation or account have just said "I won't go into it, you can read about it in my book".

Firstly, I have never said I have a "relationship" with God.  I said I have had experiences revealing the nature of God.  Big difference.  Secondly, I have described my experiences in the very first post, along with subsequent clarifications along the way.  There is nothing else that needs to be said about it.  And I mentioned my book only when asked about the knowledge I have gained from my experiences.  If it takes an entire book to relate this knowledge, I am obviously not going to have the time to do so accurately on this forum.  I don't believe there was one true or relevant point in your post. 

Dharmic Tui

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Re: Where is God in Buddhism?
« Reply #45 on: June 22, 2014, 08:10:41 PM »
Perhaps you are hung up on my use of the word God.  As I said before, it is just a label that most people can relate to
They can, just almost no where in the same way as you are intending. If we're speaking English (or most other common languages) and we bring up the word God, we should be referring to some sort of definitive, supreme being, and not a largely incomparable subjective experience we choose to interpret as God.

Just as an aside, I've found this to be an interesting discourse on open mindedness:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI&feature=kp

Dharmic Tui

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Re: Where is God in Buddhism?
« Reply #46 on: June 22, 2014, 08:20:34 PM »
Firstly, not everyone on this board is a Buddhist fundamentalist.
Neither am I. I do have to say though that talking to abstract experiences of God wasn't in the top 5 motivators in me signing up here.
Why this information is useful for me is irrelevant and not something I care to justify.
Oh ok, feel free then to not involve yourself in a bi-directional discussion and just use this forum as your own personal blog.
Firstly, I have never said I have a "relationship" with God.  I said I have had experiences revealing the nature of God.  Big difference.
Not as big a difference between your definition of God and commonly held definitions of God. "See this here, it's an Apple. It's long and yellow, tastes a bit like a Banana actually, but it's definitely God for I have experienced it."
Secondly, I have described my experiences in the very first post, along with subsequent clarifications along the way.  There is nothing else that needs to be said about it.
Then you'll have to excuse others for reacting how they do in light of such limited information.
  I don't believe there was one true or relevant point in your post.
I wouldn't expect you to. Time might be of benefit on this one. One of us may look back on this thread in months or years and either use it to reinforce what they believe in then, or they'll facepalm at their momentary lapse of reason.

VinceField

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Re: Where is God in Buddhism?
« Reply #47 on: June 22, 2014, 10:40:23 PM »
My posts until this point have simply been attempts to clear the apparent confusion and offer a perspective that only experience of the subject at hand can offer.  So far I have not been presented with one perspective that I have not already considered or explored first hand, but I appreciate the effort from you guys.  You may try to needlessly draw out a debate as your micro-analysis seems to indicate, but at this point I am content with the points I have addressed and I will not waste any more time with this topic, unless someone brings up a question or concern worthy of attending to.  Till then ;D

Matthew

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    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: Where is God in Buddhism?
« Reply #48 on: June 22, 2014, 10:53:34 PM »
Vince,

You're being rather rude mate.

You started a topic to "clear the apparent confusion" but you yourself admit that you cannot express in words that which you have experience, so until you can clear your own confusion such a discussion will not lead to anything enlightening.

You also take a holier than thou attitude which is transparently about boosting your own egotistic feelings of superiority which has been clear in your many posts in this thread.

This forum has been derailed by meaningless discussion of unverifiable "facts" enough. I'm glad you have the wisdom to bow out at this point.

Regarding astral travel, join an astral travel forum. Regarding Buddhist meditation methods they are part of an eight fold path - alone they will not take you far.

Kindly,

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

VinceField

  • Guest
Re: Where is God in Buddhism?
« Reply #49 on: June 22, 2014, 11:02:06 PM »
Perhaps you are hung up on my use of the word God.  As I said before, it is just a label that most people can relate to
They can, just almost no where in the same way as you are intending. If we're speaking English (or most other common languages) and we bring up the word God, we should be referring to some sort of definitive, supreme being, and not a largely incomparable subjective experience we choose to interpret as God.

From Wikipedia:
"There are many names for God, and different names are attached to different cultural ideas about God's identity and attributes. "
"The concept of God as described by theologians commonly includes the attributes of omniscience (infinite knowledge), omnipotence (unlimited power), omnipresence (present everywhere), omnibenevolence (perfect goodness), divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence. In theism, God is the creator and sustainer of the universe"
" In pantheism, God is the universe itself."
"The many different conceptions of God, and competing claims as to God's characteristics, aims, and actions...."
"There is no clear consensus on the nature of God."

As you can see:

1.  My description of the force I experienced and labeled "God" matches many of the characteristics that are attributed to God in various religions and philosophies.   

2.  Your assertion that there must be just one definition of God as a "definitive supreme being" is absolutely false.

For more info refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God#Theological_approaches

 

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