Author Topic: Is only Anapanasatti (only samatha?) meditation working for developing insight?  (Read 2914 times)

J0rrit

  • Member
  • Write something about yourself here
    • -
Hello there,

There is always this samatha-vipassana discussion. Ajahn Brahm also describes this in 'Mindfulness: bliss and beyond'. He says the anapanasatti is not just samatha, but both samatha and vipassana practice. Why is (in general) Vipassana considered the only form of meditation to gain insight? And that anapanasatti is not enough for gaining insight?

I read that there are two ways to of people that practice insight: either by developing Jhana, and gaining insight from that, or by practicing Vipassana (without Jhana). Of course you can do both. Is this true?

Can you gain insight from the earlier stages of the anapanasatti, without having reached the 1st Jhana? In my experience, the insights of non-self, impermanence and unsatisfactory increased significantly when starting the anapanasatti technique from Ajahn Brahm. But I guess my mind wasn't/isn't yet ready for Vipassana, because it was/is really restless.

So my main question would be: is ONLY practicing anapanasatti enough ? I would like to stay with only one technique, for now.

redalert

Vipassana is insight.

J0rrit

  • Member
  • Write something about yourself here
    • -
I'm sorry to say this Red, but what is the goal of this answer? Why can't you just answer the question ?

redalert

Vipassana is the establishing of awareness(insight) or Satipatthana. I also use the words God/being/true nature/true self/truth/peace/Nibanna.

Jhana's are subtle states that arise for one to observe, they are dukkha(suffering) as well as any other state, just less dukkha in these states.

Observing the breath is all you need do, but breath is an ocean to discover.


Delma54

  • Member
  • Disappearing
    • Glad the Buddha got enlightened
    • Happily improving the experience
Tu my understanding it is best to develop Samatha fisrt. Jhanas included. That will open us to right mindfulness & access concentration to gain right insight & to experience anicca impermanence & bringing you to destroy the ten fetters that keep us in the endless rounds of rebirth.

hi Delma,

This is one of the most discussed topic when one walks the path. Here are my two cents of experience in the field.

Jhanas are not access concentration states as many say.

Jhanas are the states of meditation where happiness arises that is free from all the six sense doors and their objects. With that happiness arises some wisdom about happiness. With this developing and applying the knowledge of happiness in reality becomes easier.

So there is nothing called a path with jhanas and path without them. Its a state of experience that arises on the path. (Same with nibbana.)

But they themselves dont remove the root of negativity and so the search continues to be fully free, to achieve nibbana.


Also you might have already seen that there is no special practices to achieve jhanas. Basic instructions of Jhana is same as that of samatha.

Quote
So my main question would be: is ONLY practicing anapanasatti enough ? I would like to stay with only one technique, for now.

Yes and no.  :D

If you are following the practice of anapanasatti taught by Goenka tradition then no, it is not enough.

If you are following the practice taught in satipatanasutta then yes, it is enough.
 
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 04:37:12 AM by siddharthgode »

J0rrit

  • Member
  • Write something about yourself here
    • -
Siddhartha, what is different in the anapanasatti between the goenka tradition and the anapanasatti from the satipatthana sutta?

Anapanasatti taught by Goenkaji is for development of concentration. Since we concentrate on only one point in our body and are aware of breath, insight of working of body is not achieved. Link between body and mind is not observed. That is why they introduce body scanning as Vipassana, to complete the technique.

Where as Buddha taught to be aware of breath, body and the mind with each breath. One goes step by step with the body, mental formations and mind.

I wouldnt name what Goenkaji teaches as anapanasatti.

Note: In the Goenka's way once we enter vipassana meditation they say its ok to stop being aware of the breath and just do scanning. I feel this is where it gets complicated. It works much better if one introduces awareness of breath into the awareness of sensation meditation. Also I think its very hard to enter Jhanas without breath and samatha and just do body scanning.

redalert


Note: In the Goenka's way once we enter vipassana meditation they say its ok to stop being aware of the breath and just do scanning. I feel this is where it gets complicated. It works much better if one introduces awareness of breath into the awareness of sensation meditation. Also I think its very hard to enter Jhanas without breath and samatha and just do body scanning.

Hi Sid,

In the long courses, Goenka's instructions and dhamma talks go into more detail on breath/sensations, and one having developed in this technique to meet the requirements of the long courses, one is given more flexibility with the way one works. One learns to evaluate the state one is in, and can practice with breath or sensations, scanning the body as in 10 day course, or in different ways.

We have to keep in mind that the 10 day course is an introductory course.

 

As for as i know from the discussions with many of my dhamma friends who are 20, 30 , 40 years into practice, during long courses there is absolutely no instructions at all during one hour sittings (there is no one hour sittings also, no bells) also no special instructions given during dhamma talks. Just the same technique.

redalert

Hi Sid,

There are three one hour sittings a day, the only difference is you can meditate in your room or hall or cell for the one hour. The exception is the evening sit you must be present in the hall for this and the discourse that follows. There are instructions in the evening sit as to how one may practice according to ones reality of experience. There are still bells to allow one to follow the schedule and balance the day, but chanting is only present in morning sit in cell or hall or in the evening sit. The emphasis is placed more on the individual to work independently.

You are correct that it is the same technique but one can see that the breath and sensations are one in the same, the difference is only apparent in gross levels as one progresses to subtle levels the breath and sensations melt together and the breath appears to fall away.

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
14 Replies
21757 Views
Last post February 11, 2011, 06:33:29 PM
by Morning Dew
28 Replies
17670 Views
Last post May 11, 2012, 04:22:08 PM
by Andrew
1 Replies
1122 Views
Last post November 02, 2013, 01:52:29 PM
by Matthew
7 Replies
2681 Views
Last post April 21, 2014, 07:33:07 AM
by Matthew
10 Replies
3097 Views
Last post August 18, 2014, 06:16:22 AM
by Goofaholix
5 Replies
2652 Views
Last post March 27, 2015, 11:41:32 PM
by Middleway
4 Replies
983 Views
Last post October 11, 2017, 11:22:11 PM
by Dharmic Tui