Author Topic: Success means unintentionally harming others, doesn't it?  (Read 2622 times)

Skanzi

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Success means unintentionally harming others, doesn't it?
« on: January 12, 2014, 10:11:48 PM »
Hi there,

I was thinking about this, and I realized that with success, achievements, but also with joy and pleasure you often unintentionally make other people feel worse. Why? Because you're damaging their ego's.

For example: Let's say your friends have a very strong desire to attract women. Make out with them at parties etc... And let's say you are able to do all of that in front of them. You make them jealous. They want to be able to be at your level but they can't be. That makes them feel bad about themselves.

And so are there thousands of other examples i can think of. Even if you're just having a lot more fun than other people around you. Those other people are jealous/envious to you because they also want to feel the joy you do.

And it's really... I know it's more their problem than yours, they are the one doing it to themselves in the end. But you are still are making other people feel bad about themselves, without you, they wouldn't feel bad. You're damaging their ego's. However, i refuse to limit my growth, success and fun just because I care too much about how other people feel.

You just can't get around it really. There is no way you can't stop other people feeling worse and more insecure about themselves when you climb higher. Even if you mean good and want to do no harm.

I understand that there are also positives to it. Like, if you enjoy yourself really well like at a party, there may be a couple of people with a low self-esteem who are jealous of the amount of fun you're having. But the people with a good amount of self-esteem you can also make their moods go up, and you help them to feel better themselves because your good emotional state is transferring onto them. And because you're not limited in your own growth or fun you also gain greater capabilities to help others better, at least faster. When you grow you can help other people to climb along with you too, that's true. But i'm worried about the people that don't climb along and they are just left there looking at you climbing higher and higher. I've experienced that when i was looking up to other people, and i have to say, it doesn't feel good at all.

So, basically you only make people with a low self-esteem feel bad because you're hurting their ego's that maintains their sense of self-worth. But you're still hurting others, right?

Should you just like, accept the fact that sometimes other people will just be envious of your success? Just accept that others will feel worse because of you? Or is there something more to this that i'm missing?

Greetings
« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 10:19:47 PM by Skanzi »
Do you have a conflict? A doubt which you don't know the answer for? Try this:

- Advise yourself like you would advise a friend.  If you can easily advise your friend, why not take the same advice to yourself?

If you're still not sure, just admit you're not sure and just make a choice.

Peace

Re: Success means unintentionally harming others, doesn't it?
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2014, 06:32:18 AM »
One wouldnt think so much when he judge once actions according to dhamma.

In dhamma what matters is the volition of the mind.
If in any action the volition of the mind is good then that action is a good action.

example: A doctor tries to operation a dieing person to save him, but during operation he dies.

If in any action the volition of the mind is bad then that action would bring suffering to us.

example: A person stabs his friend because he is angry with what he did.

Many good actions would create negativity in others. So its necessary that we ignore it and keep doing these actions.

PS: Your use of low self-esteem and high self-esteem is bugging me.  :D I would have used one who has accepted himself and love himself and the other hasnt.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 06:34:38 AM by siddharthgode »

Quardamon

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    • Teachers were: P.K.K. Mettavihari, Frits Koster, Nel Kliphuis. (In the line of Mahasi Sayadaw)
Re: Success means unintentionally harming others, doesn't it?
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2014, 10:03:56 AM »
So, basically you only make people with a low self-esteem feel bad because you're hurting their ego's that maintains their sense of self-worth. But you're still hurting others, right?

No. You are hurting their ego. That is different from hurting them really. It would be nice if you could talk to these people. Not about this subject, but about anything: the weather, children, music  . . . That way you allow them to relate to you. And you relate to them. Maybe after that, it is easier for them to see you having success, and are glad for you that you are successful. By relating to a person you make it easier for them to have sympathetic joy. Their ego will get less in the way then.
It is not easy, but maybe you will enjoy learning this.
Success!

Skanzi

  • Member
  • Doing whatever I can to improve
    • Doing Vipassana, Anapana and Ashtanga yoga
Re: Success means unintentionally harming others, doesn't it?
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2014, 06:17:54 PM »
Alright, fair enough.

Just wanted to know how you guys looked at this

Thanks :)
Do you have a conflict? A doubt which you don't know the answer for? Try this:

- Advise yourself like you would advise a friend.  If you can easily advise your friend, why not take the same advice to yourself?

If you're still not sure, just admit you're not sure and just make a choice.

Peace

Mikeler

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  • Write something about yourself here
    • None
Re: Success means unintentionally harming others, doesn't it?
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2014, 09:59:10 PM »
But isn't this hurt caused by themselves? By their minds?

I've been learning that most of what happens in the external world isn't really responsible for how I feel but it's rather my thoughts about the external world that have a greater impact.

Not sure if this is 100 percent valid all the time thought.

jernej

  • Member
Re: Success means unintentionally harming others, doesn't it?
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2014, 11:18:47 PM »
But isn't this hurt caused by themselves? By their minds?

I've been learning that most of what happens in the external world isn't really responsible for how I feel but it's rather my thoughts about the external world that have a greater impact.

Not sure if this is 100 percent valid all the time thought.

Indeed, an interesting point. As I read somewhere:

Imagine you are kayaking, and some kids are playing in the water. They don't see you and tip the kayak (and you) over. You react: darn kids! Can't you pay attention! I'm wet because of you....
Now, if you were kayaking and crashed into a submerged rock, the result would be the same... you'd tip over and you'd be wet. But you would not react. There's no point on being angry on a rock, is there?

So yeah, I noticed through observing myself that I really don't react to what's happening in the outside. I react on my brain/body's reaction, which causes actual physical discomfort and triggers anger (or fear or whatever). I'm very unskilful though. Even though I know how this all works, I still can't control it many if not most times  :'(

On the topic of success: I think "success" is undefined here. Most western people would associate it with a lot of money, good job, career... A bit scary that we don't associate it with happiness, raising happy children and so on.

If you define success simply as: being the best you could be - in all the roles you play, then it would imply that even if you happen to be financially successful, you try avoiding hurting others with it. You can't completely prevent it, but you have to try to the best you can not to.

Or, if you are really, really successful, you can actually share the success with others. As an example, I have huge respect for Bill Gates. This guy is loaded, but he still cares and he is putting money into good deeds. On the other way of spectrum is the late Jobs. Total egocentric maniac who never cared about anybody but himself. He didn't even care about his daughters. I wish him be peaceful and free.

 

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