Just Another Off-topic Blah Blah: Letting go of your ego??

[Johann (Hanzze)]

Special care you have to take in regard of teachers who actually teach the uposatha of the Jains (next to them who teach the uposatha of the cowards), especially in the so called secular, some call it agnostic or without believe branch.
So if used to simply get just a compensation, manager stress reducing and wellness meditation it was that the Buddha taught about. They also usually have flags or other labels to identify and increase the attachment to dullness and praise its benefits.

"And what is the Uposatha of the Jains? There are the contemplatives called the Niganthas (Jains). They get their disciple to undertake the following practice: 'Here, my good man. Lay down the rod with regard to beings who live more than 100 leagues to the east... more than 100 leagues to the west... more than 100 leagues to the north... more than 100 leagues to the south.' Thus they get the disciple to undertake kindness & sympathy to some beings, but not to others.

"On the Uposatha day, they get their disciple to undertake the following practice: 'Here, my good man. Having stripped off all your clothing, say this: "I am nothing by anything or of anything. Thus there is nothing by anything or of anything that is mine."' Yet in spite of that, his parents know of him that 'This is our child.' And he knows of them that 'These are my parents.' His wives & children know of him that 'This is our husband & father.' And he knows of them that 'These are my wives & children.' His workers & slaves know of him that 'This is our master.' And he knows of them that 'These are my workers & slaves.' Thus at a time when he should be persuaded to undertake truthfulness, he is persuaded to undertake falsehood. At the end of the night, he resumes the consumption of his belongings, even though they aren't given back to him. This counts as stealing, I tell you. Such is the Uposatha of the Jains, Visakha. When this Uposatha of the Jains is undertaken, it is not of great fruit or great benefit, not of great glory or great radiance.

"And what is the Uposatha of the Noble Ones? It is the cleansing of the defiled mind through the proper technique. And how is the defiled mind cleansed through the proper technique?

Muluposatha Sutta: The Roots of the Uposatha

Dana - Sila - Bhavana, step by step and later on maybe just Sila - Samadhi - Panna. That all starts with faith, to stick to the foundation first.

[Matthew]

Special care must be taken.

These Sutta's are useful:

"He who wears the robe of a monk and has the ego of a donkey is probably a donkey".

and:

"He who can't read and understand the terms and service conditions of a web forum probably can't read and understand the Sutta's, even if he can quote them from start to finish".

[Johann (Hanzze)]

Silly those guys I known. Do you like to stay on topic or just give us another sample of "better i am" "more worse I am" "equal I am".  If so, you did a great  job like always.

So with what do you like to justify your aversion now. Group, TOS, experiences?

[Matthew]

If the cosmic mirror shows you "better am I" own the mirror Johann.

[Johann (Hanzze)]

See, one lesson is very imported, but hard to bear. If we see something, an attribute of somebody we find very annoying, its actually something we dislike in our self.

If Johann would see Johann or Matthew Matthew, as it is, there would be no base for comparison at all. You can come down to simply observe deeds and there results, and no need for "I making" or "you making" at all.

Let me recite a short stanza with an illustration, maybe you see the reason in the background.

Who's behind love and hate?

Truly, friends, for the arising of greed these two are the cause. Which two? An agreeable object and unwise (conceit) thinking.

Truly, friends, for the arising of aversion these two are the cause. Which two? An agreeable object and unwise (conceit) thinking.

These three are called the roots, mula. Eventhough we can handle love and hate (raga and dosa) a little, conceit is the last defilement and only gone for an Arahant. Till that, just observe.

[Matthew]

Johann,

YOU took this off topic, implying that I

teach the uposatha of the Jains (next to them who teach the uposatha of the cowards)

If you're going to commit unwholesome acts of speech, not conducive to harmony in the Sangha, holding no merit or benefit, then please take responsibility for them. That's all that is requested.

Matthew

[Johann (Hanzze)]

As master Matthew thinks, I would say its not only on topic in regard of words, but also as sample. You would not be honest, to say that you simply do not like it, would you.

But its actually already great. From killing to other punishment, so we could say you have learned already.

So much mudita and congratulation.

But lets investigate, once more, would that happen if there is no conceit?

We can stay off topic here, so don't be afraid. Its meant for that.

Or do you like to talk on the meaning and issue of harmony? We can do that as well, not sure what the topic of the off topic is and who sees it in this or that way. So just let it out. I am flexible.

[Matthew]

... Do you like to stay on topic ......

... not sure what the topic of the off topic is and who sees it in this or that way. ....

As you raised the issue of on and off topic perhaps you can clarify what you meant? If you are not sure what you meant I certainly am also. It does not help that your English is only understandable 50% of the time.

Matthew

[Quardamon]

Johann,

Why don't you stick to your own website mod edit link removed, and to the many discussion forums you are on?
What are you trying to find here?

You could have read, that this forum is meant to be an on-line community, not a hall where recitations of the sutta's resound.

In my view, you are hopelessly lost and you do not see that as a problem, but as a virtue.
If you react to this, it will probably be with more holy texts and links to long explanations. And I will get even more annoyed and self-righteous.
You remind me of a brother of mine who, for a few years, could almost only communicate by using Bible texts.
Please have the courage and the humility to find back your family or friends in Germany (if that is where you come from).

[Johann (Hanzze)]

... Do you like to stay on topic ......

... not sure what the topic of the off topic is and who sees it in this or that way. ....

As you raised the issue of on and off topic perhaps you can clarify what you meant? If you are not sure what you meant I certainly am also. It does not help that your English is only understandable 50% of the time.

Matthew

That is a good attitude, to ask what do you mean with it or what is the meaning of it. The topic was about ego and there are many teacher who actually teach such as artefactual no-ego

"On the Uposatha day, they get their disciple to undertake the following practice: 'Here, my good man. Having stripped off all your clothing, say this: "I am nothing by anything or of anything. Thus there is nothing by anything or of anything that is mine."' Yet in spite of that, his parents know of him that 'This is our child.' And he knows of them that 'These are my parents.' His wives & children know of him that 'This is our husband & father.' And he knows of them that 'These are my wives & children.' His workers & slaves know of him that 'This is our master.' And he knows of them that 'These are my workers & slaves.' Thus at a time when he should be persuaded to undertake truthfulness, he is persuaded to undertake falsehood. At the end of the night, he resumes the consumption of his belongings, even though they aren't given back to him. This counts as stealing, I tell you. Such is the Uposatha of the Jains, Visakha. When this Uposatha of the Jains is undertaken, it is not of great fruit or great benefit, not of great glory or great radiance.

Which is actually the normality in especially layman guided trainings. They meat each other, tell each other "I am nothing by anything or of anything. Thus there is nothing by anything or of anything that is mine." mixed with the usual metta practice "undertake kindness & sympathy to some beings". After they have met, they turn back, step in their car lift all up like before and make there standards as usual and will meet each other to do that practice.

Many people are not aware of this strong tendency and practice, but that is actually the practice what Buddha called the Uposatha of the Jains.

You have to find out your self if it is like that or not, so its just a "be careful", don't cheat your self and don't cheat others with doing so.
You have to be careful where you are, many people try to imitate liberation or practice the higher Eightfull Path, while still more worse as somebody never have done any special practice.

Back to "raising the question" as side info Ukkacita Sutta: Bombast, that is why I praised your request.

So actually it was not off topic, but a very practical hint in regard of No-Ego Imitation while still an ordinary worldling.

[Johann (Hanzze)]

Johann,

Why don't you stick to your own website mod edit link removed, and to the many discussion forums you are on?
What are you trying to find here?

You could have read, that this forum is meant to be an on-line community, not a hall where recitations of the sutta's resound.

In my view, you are hopelessly lost and you do not see that as a problem, but as a virtue.
If you react to this, it will probably be with more holy texts and links to long explanations. And I will get even more annoyed and self-righteous.
You remind me of a brother of mine who, for a few years, could almost only communicate by using Bible texts.
Please have the courage and the humility to find back your family or friends in Germany (if that is where you come from).

Quardamon,

I am used to racist reaction, especially of so called "practitioner" as they usually seek community but are not really interested in practice.

How every, I appreciate your straight forward words but I also suggest you to thing about that in regard of the topic "Letting go of your ego" as there is no more dangerous as if people start to put their ego into group identification. It let them make stuff they would never do if they just see them selves as a singe person. So be careful about such identification.

If you are generally not interested in practice, and what was taught then you should seek for a general different lable, of the forum. Actually I answered a question of somebody I thought that he might be interested, that's all.

I am really not he to convince people how feel pleased in worshiping self estimation while talking about ego that they react shocked if they find out that teaching depends always on a teacher.

How ever, if you like to talk about Johann, I am sure you are free to make a topic. But I know that this "on - topic" "of topic" is seldom meant as such but just as a justification between like and don't like and to act in that way to have a justification for some action.

Lost is only somebody who is bound. Maybe you like to think about it. Much off suffering and causing suffering comes from that bondage.

Thus at a time when he should be persuaded to undertake truthfulness, he is persuaded to undertake falsehood. At the end of the night, he resumes the consumption of his belongings, even though they aren't given back to him. This counts as stealing, I tell you. Such is the Uposatha of the Jains

Greatings from Cambodia for now. I really don't know where I come from, if you ask we for a straight answer.

[Mpgkona]

Johann,

I've been staying out of your threads as much as possible for two very different reasons:

1. I really have no clue what you are talking about most of the time. Your English seems good so I dont think that is the problem. Are you using something like google translator? This is not a put down at all, nor is it racist. Im just trying to get a sense of what you may be saying, and it seems something is being lost in translation.

2. You appear to be fanatical in your interpretations of the suttas. This is a practice oriented site and you seem to be spewing doctrine which, as you will soon see, is loathed at this site. You seem to fancy yourself as a teacher but youre doing a very poor job. So in my interpretation of Johann (i'll speak in 2nd person to match your 3rd person) you seem to be here to deliver truths to us, which I will advise again is very poor etiquite for this site.

So to cut to the chase, what is your motive for being here?

[Johann (Hanzze)]

Nice to meet you Mpgkona,

Johann,

I've been staying out of your threads as much as possible for two very different reasons:

Great to hear you reasons.

1. I really have no clue what you are talking about most of the time. Your English seems good so I dont think that is the problem. Are you using something like google translator? This is not a put down at all, nor is it racist. Im just trying to get a sense of what you may be saying, and it seems something is being lost in translation.

No google, just what I have learned. Don't worry to much, sometimes I am a little lazy in explaining and sometimes I assume some things to be known already. And I really don't like if people like to nail things down, so there is always good space to investigate by one self. There is the place to learn. Somebody else can only give inspirations and samples, theory. So its a general thing, whether it is this or that language I try to use and I am horrible bad in languages, gramma and spelling. So you one needs really like to know what I try to say and there is no possibility of fast food at all.

2. You appear to be fanatical in your interpretations of the suttas. This is a practice oriented site and you seem to be spewing doctrine which, as you will soon see, is loathed at this site. You seem to fancy yourself as a teacher but youre doing a very poor job. So in my interpretation of Johann (i'll speak in 2nd person to match your 3rd person) you seem to be here to deliver truths to us, which I will advise again is very poor etiquite for this site.

I don't have the impression that this is a practice orientated page for serval reasons. As soon as you touch the level of practice everybody here seems to go outside and not inside one self. I also think that if somebody does not see that the whole suttas are only practical and have not a little foot hold for theoretical issues, one misunderstands pondering thoughts and elevations of assumings a practice.
As for my reason to be here is, that I think that I can give a little. Of course it needs to be received as well. Nature of forums is that one usually raises a question and others, if thinking to be fit, give answers or opinions. Its not that I do not know the normal reactions of people in theoretical forums and the risk of being not very welcome. Some may find something useful, some not, some will have some gratitude, some prefer to reject. And it is normal that there are less who are able to listen.
Suttas are therefore useful, that you do not need to speak your opinions as personal opinions are mostly full of defilement. This tradition of not making your self to a Buddha made it possible that you still benefit of this teachings. So it would be good to understand it for practical reasons and also to develop some gratitude. If that is absent, there is no possibility to learn and wise people would not really teach.

Sorry that I do not adopt a comic avatar etiquette and other kinds of usually you may be used to here. Some people are not able to adopt things they are to really good. So also this is a normal situation.

So to cut to the chase, what is your motive for being here?

I guess I have given some indications already but maybe that is useful in general and for you own practice: Jivaka Sutta: To Jivaka (On Being a Lay Follower)
As long as you have not reached Arahanthood, it will be always practicing what will be your motivation, given that you seek for the paths and fruits to liberation.

Have to add, just thought, but did not express:

Thanks for your criticism Mpgkona. I appreciate such and it need a lot of compassion to do such not just out of aversion, like people usually do such. Because at least you always have the danger to lose sympathy or status in regard of people how just seek harmony but not really the truth. No need to worry to lose sympathy or status in regard of wise people.

[Matthew]

Johann,

The Buddha taught that his monks must teach in the language of the people where they were travelling. He did not teach 'be lazy and make the Dhamma hard to understand'. The Dhamma is inherently hard to understand - it does not need or seek extra layers of difficulty.

Quardamon was not being racist, however, as you 'are used to racist reaction' I can see how you would colour his words with your own preconceptions.

Quardamon was saying that you are highly deluded, have missed the point of the Dhamma and that for the sake of your own mental health and well-being it would be good for you to have the humility to return home to family and friends who can support you.

You seem to have missed this point entirely.

You avoid direct questions such as Mpgkona's question 'what is your motivation for being here?'.

You know a lot about the Sutra's but not much personal experience of liberation. This is clear.

When I banned you for two days for posting too often and disrupting this community you said when you came back you would raise a topic on the subject. You have not done this.

You have fundamentally misunderstood this site as a community and not somewhere for deluded beings to come and teach their delusions.

For the health of this community i am banning you for a further three days while we discuss your continued involvement here and if we wish it.

I am sorry it came to this. If you had understood anything about Dhamma other than empty recitation of Sutta's not based on personal experience, if you were as wise as you seem to think you are, then it would not - understand this.

Matthew

Edit: taking in the views of those who contributed Johann's ban is permanent.

[dimeo]

The Buddha taught that his monks must teach in the language of the people where they were travelling. He did not teach 'be lazy and make the Dhamma hard to understand'. The Dhamma is inherently hard to understand - it does not need or seek extra layers of difficulty.

@Matthew Wonderful! I can't begin to express how precious it is to me when good teachers have taken the time to help us understand difficult concepts from the sutras (like the heart sutra for example).