Vipassana and Tantric sex

[vd007]

I am a 39 year old Indian male. I weigh 130 pounds. I have done 2000 - 3000 hours of vipassana meditation practice, which consist of watching breath and body sensations (S N Goenka tradition) in the past TEN years. I have done 6 ten day courses and one 20 day course. My last course was in 2010.   I started to practice
tantric sex(which is slow sex)  with my wife as I was told that it would increase love and my relationship with my wife. I practiced it for 2 years till 2010 for half an hour a day for 5 days a week.  Then problems started to arise. I started to feel lethargic and tired and also head pressure and head sensations. I have stopped tantric sex(which is slow sex)  since the past 3 years. I want to add that I am practising celibacy for the most past in the past 3 years. When I indulge in sex I feel very tired and drained. I break my celibacy 5 or 6 times a year only.   For the past 3 years, there are some sensations always going on in my head and on top of my head.Whenever I start to meditate I feel something is going on top of my head. Then I end up with a very heavy head for the rest of the day. At other
times  I feel very fatigued and dont have the energy to do anything. I either have
headaches/head pressures or I am fatigued. I have been moving into these two physical symptoms for the past 3 years. It has very badly impacted my family, professional and social life.   I have gotten various blood test and brain MRI done and they are all normal. I was found to be deficient in b12 and D3. But the problem is whenever I take any medicine allopathic or Ayurveda I immediately get headaches. I have not been able to take any medicine as my body has become very sensitive.I stopped vipassana for few months but then I would feel so awful in the body that I had to start vipassana again   I feel that my kundalini might have been impacted because of my sexual practice. I have read 500 books on this subject and vipassana.   Right now if I do vipassana I suffer in my life after my meditation.If I don’t do vipassana I suffer in my life. Medicines make my body even more worse. I am also reading that medicines cause more harm in the long run. Before I started practicing slow sex, i.e. before 2008, I would practice vipassana and break my celibacy only 5-6 times a year. I used to be very happy and energetic. Now I am always having headaches or fatigue. I am in a very dark place right now. Please help. I have not been able to do any vipassana because of what meditation does to me.

[redalert]

Contact and talk to a teacher at your centre of practice.

Metta

[vd007]

I contacted SN goenka himself and he directed me to a local teacher. The local teacher said that you should be equanimous towards the sensations. How can someone be equanimous to something that goes on for years. It could be a kundalini issue. The advice on kundalini forums is to get oneself immersed in day to day life an quit meditating. That just does not work. I tried it for months . I still feel miserable. Has someone been in my boat ? Just wanted to know if there are people who went through these issues and if they found any solution.

[Dharmic Tui]

I would suggest seeing a doctor, this sounds psycho somatic and you could have an anxiety disorder. Or maybe look at changing the form of vipassana you are practising.

[redalert]

The local teacher said that you should be equanimous towards the sensations.

Yes, this is the practice.

How can someone be equanimous to something that goes on for years.

It sounds like you want equaminity to remove the sensation, this is not equiminity, this is aversion. The practice is to simply observe whatever sensations present themselves, to experience this reality as it is not as we want it to be.

 It could be a kundalini issue.

 It sounds like a craving issue, there is something you are supressing that needs to be observed and let go of. It is manifesting as this unpleasantness you are experiencing.

The advice on kundalini forums is to get oneself immersed in day to day life an quit meditating. That just does not work. I tried it for months . I still feel miserable.

Supression is not the solution, these thought formations need to be observed and let go of.

Has someone been in my boat ? Just wanted to know if there are people who went through these issues and if they found any solution.

Again talk to your teacher, if you do not like the first teachers advice, request another teacher, some are more experienced than others. Have you not found one that you are drawn towards after as much time in this tradition, or have you kept mainly to yourself.  I have found doing Dhamma service extremely valuable in rounding over the roughness brought to the surface during retreats. Perhaps this could be beneficial.

Therapy may be helpful , but I would strongly advise talking to another teacher about options. I've never heard of tantric sex practice, or forced celibacy in a loving relationship. It sounds like you are mixing different techniques.

[vd007]

Hi,

I've talked to 5 or 6 SN Goenka school teachers and they all say the same thing. I don't see them as very knowledgeable.

I was wondering if any advanced vipassana student had practiced tantric sex and if so what was his experience.

[Dharmic Tui]

If you can be truthful what have you gleamed from 10 years of Goenka then? Have you noticed some progression, regression or otherwise? It may be that either Goenka or any other form of insight may not be of benefit to you at this time.

I have not practised tantric sex, but if I could offer my two cents I can't see how it'd be necessary for having a good relationship with your wife. Instead maybe look at other pursuits the two of you could engage in, if even a walk outside together.

[Quardamon]

Dear vd007,

I am sorry to hear about your condition.
Let me try and find a few perspectives to see this matter from.

About the  sensations going on in the head and on top of the head: A picture/idea that I like is that the energy in the body and around the body is such: The energy flows up along the spine, out of the head up and to the sides (like a fountain), and comes in again through the feet. (The idea is, that one is standing.) One could make a movement with the arms to encourage this feeling of spreading above the head, dropping along the sides, and allowing to come in to the feet again. If this is new to you, do not do it more than three minutes.

About doing slow sex: It sounds as if you were doing this as a discipline.
And, if I may say so: as your discipline. (With a stress on you, and not on your wife.)
How was this for your wife? Was she also in to Goenka-style meditation when you both started on this way of improving the relationship?

You did eight years of Goenka-style vipassana. And then you combined that with tantra (slow sex) for two years. As far as I know Goenka forbids to do other spiritual practices, and Goenka regards sexual longing and sexual activity as something to overcome. Correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds as if you decided to combine the way of Goenka with something that he does not want his students to be combine things.
In my view, the body scanning techinque is so basic that it can easily be combined with a lot of spiritual disciplines. I learned body scanning as a part of Natural Dance, from a pupil of Anna Halprin. But that scanning does not have the theoretical and spiritual setting and meaning that it has with Goenka.
Again: Correct me if I am wrong, but to me it sounds as if for two years you did something of which you knew that Goenka would regard it as wrong. Without taking leave from Goenka at the start of you tantra-exercises.
So in this perspective - and it might just be my fantasy - you have a headache form a fight between two different spiritual disciplines. At least, one discipline fights the other. In this perspective, being in a battle zone drains your energy.
(I knew a few ladies here in Holland, who longed for sex, but felt that sex was bad, due to their religious conviction. They had a feeling of guilt by default. They suffered from guilt. And they decided to change their religion to a milder form. A whole generation did that. Sex is no longer regarded as something filthy by the Christians of today here in Holland.
That would be comparable, if this perspective were right.)

So, that is three perspectives.
I hope that this helps.

How is your wife?

P.S.: If meditation is that bad for you, I do not see why you should be sorry not to do it any more.

[redalert]

Hi,

I've talked to 5 or 6 SN Goenka school teachers and they all say the same thing. I don't see them as very knowledgeable.

I'm sorry to hear that. If you have sat the long course you have done at least one 10 day service. Did you or do you not find service beneficial. There is all the opportunity to talk with students and teachers about these types of issues, you may find someone within this tradition of practice that can discuss these issues with you as they relate to this technique.

I was wondering if any advanced vipassana student had practiced tantric sex and if so what was his experience.

I am not familiar with tantric sex, but from what you describe it involves performing sexually in slow motion. This goes against this practice as every action should be done in a natural way, no purposeful slow walking, just your natural pace. I can only assume this would include sex.  Have sex naturally, do not force it, or deny it, just observe sensations as you and your partner take part in the act. If you feel like going slowly, go slowly, if you want to go fast go fast.

Also, you should not deny your partner sexual pleasure as they require it. You are involved in a loving relationship and the needs of both must be considered. Goenka suggest that through this practice the desire for sex(the sensations experienced) will naturally disappear. On courses they ask one to be completely celibate but after the course you are free to do as you please. Only when one becomes established in this tradition and one wishes to sit longer courses the requirements and diciplines off course become more strick.

It is the same as smoking, during a course you are not allowed to smoke, after the course you are your own master you can do as you please. But if one observes sensations one will soon realise that they do not crave the nicotine, they crave the sensation nicotine produces. Practicing appropriately one will naturally abandon the habit of smoking.

[vd007]

Thanks to all for their input. But I really want someone who has practiced Vipassana and Tantric sex to let me know if it has adversely impacted their vipassana practice or not.

[dhammadude432]

I have a girlfriend and we both practice vipassana every day, and we have sex though it's just normal sex. and i havn't noticed any adverse affects, on the other hand going to a vipassana course has benefited our relationship. I'll try this tantric thing just to experiment and see what happens.

[Johann (Hanzze)]

vd007,

actually it would be more of benefit to take up 8 or 10 Silas as to make the opposite. No wonder why pain and confusion increases.
The path has its dependencies and does not work otherwise.

Appamada!