Author Topic: Earth, water, air, fire?  (Read 22283 times)

Dharmic Tui

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Re: Earth, water, air, fire?
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2013, 08:22:04 PM »
Seemed kinda straight forward to me. All these words will prevent one from seeing past the mystery of who they are.

redalert

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Re: Earth, water, air, fire?
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2013, 08:33:53 PM »
Yes, I meant on how it adds to the content of this thread. Seems a bit off topic.

This is an online forum, we work in the medium of words for the most part.

Dharmic Tui

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Re: Earth, water, air, fire?
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2013, 10:05:56 PM »
It adds to the content of the thread well. You've asked how others incorporate a whole bunch of descriptors and measurements into their practice, others have replied to that.

There's an old story I don't remember well, about a Monk who would journey to the top of a hill to watch the sunrise every morning. One of his students begged him to come along one day. The Monk relented, and upon reaching the top of the hill, the student annunciated his joy of being there, and vocally marvelled at the play of light and beauty of the vista. That was the last time the Monk went up the mountain to watch the sunrise.

redalert

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Re: Earth, water, air, fire?
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2013, 10:22:07 PM »
So I'm spoiling your sunrise? What a grumpy monk.

Dharmic Tui

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Re: Earth, water, air, fire?
« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2013, 10:44:13 PM »
I can see I have to be more direct :p It's not my sunrise I was referring to, it was yours. You're going to struggle seeing things clearly with the large amount of words and comprehension you feel you need to bring to your practice. Whether this is a Goenka thing or a redalert thing I can't say.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 10:46:32 PM by Dharmic Tui »

redalert

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Re: Earth, water, air, fire?
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2013, 11:06:07 PM »
Why don't you let me worry about my sunrise. :)

If you don't want to play with me, then don't.

Is contemplation, and expression not allowed?

Why do people paint, write poems, sing?

Am I to turn into an emotionless machine?


Dharmic Tui

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Re: Earth, water, air, fire?
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2013, 11:24:37 PM »
I'm just putting something out there to give you a different perspective. Contemplation and expression only rarely benefits practice, if practice is to lead to a state free from rumination and machination.

People express themselves through art for all manner of reasons. Some to remember, some to forget, some to make sense and some to confuse.

You'll have emotions just fine without needing so much thinking and talking, you may just have less short lived highs and a lot less neurosis. The absence of fear is quite a blissful place to be.

redalert

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Re: Earth, water, air, fire?
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2013, 11:49:38 PM »
I'm just putting something out there to give you a different perspective.


You keep saying this to me over, and over, in every thread I start. DT, i'm a happy guy with a stable practice, this is getting as old as the constant Goenka bashing on this forum, and it is off topic.

 
Contemplation and expression only rarely benefits practice, if practice is to lead to a state free from rumination and machination.

I like it. :)

Just be nice DT, i'm putting a bit of myself out there in every post. My intentions are harmless.

Oh, and put away the pocket thesaurus, some of us have a limited vocabulary. :-*


Dharmic Tui

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Re: Earth, water, air, fire?
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2013, 03:55:29 AM »
Why even ask the question if you're not prepared to accept answers that don't gel with your preconceptions? This is a forum with a central theme of practice, insight and awareness. Raise a thread about drugs, animal ownership or earth elements and you are going to get posts relating the central theme of the forum to the thread topic.

But I have received your point, and I will refrain from answering questions in abstraction or using a perspective which you are not comfortable with yet. Don't think I can do much about the vocabulary sadly.

redalert

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Re: Earth, water, air, fire?
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2013, 01:26:07 PM »
This is a forum with a central theme of practice, insight and awareness.

True, but people can only practice at the level of acceptance they are capable of. This is why I constantly say in threads regarding dogs, elements, Goenka, etc.... it is not about winning(being right), it is how you play the game. Can we practice while communicating to each other, can we see the words and the message within, without losing the balance of our mind and responding with blind emotion.

When I type a post, I keep my attention focused within, I observe the thought formations as I try to interpret responses and as I respond to them. I type, I check my emotions, if I notice that part of what I have written was done blindly, contains ill will, is untruthful, or that I feel will not be of benefit, then I do my best to rewrite it, or simply do not post it. I wish I could say that I am always successful in this department, I really do try.

I take the Post button VERY seriously, especially knowing how many here feel towards my tradition. Honestly, I feel a great deal of underlying anger at this forum, I am trying to cut through this as best I know how.

But I have received your point, and I will refrain from answering questions in abstraction or using a perspective which you are not comfortable with yet.


I have been accused of playing games with words on this forum, this is not my intention. My understanding of the Dhamma is difficult to express, although it is clearly understood to me, it is difficult for me to express(paint my picture) in a way that is to be helpful and understood. I will keep trying and hopefully improve in this department.
I am accused of being a Goenka tape-recording constantly(tired) and not possessing any thoughts of my own(funny), but when I start a new topic for the fun of exploration and expression it is not received well, and seems to go off-topic and downhill quickly.

If you all don't want me here, take a vote, I'll accept the decision.
Don't think I can do much about the vocabulary sadly.
I get that you are a well educated fellow and possess a large vocabulary, I imagine myself listening to you giving a Dhamma talk in some temple, I fear I would be lost as I do not possess such a large vocabulary. Honestly when I read your posts I have to Google every other word to understand where you are coming from. I am taught that the Dhamma should only be expressed in simple words, so all can understand. Just something to think about.

P.S. Koans have a purpose and some like this method, but it is not my practice.

Matthew

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Re: Earth, water, air, fire?
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2013, 01:27:38 PM »
I'm just putting something out there to give you a different perspective.


You keep saying this to me over, and over, in every thread I start. DT, i'm a happy guy with a stable practice, this is getting as old as the constant Goenka bashing on this forum, and it is off topic.

red,

You have quite an imagination. There is no constant Goenka bashing on this forum. There are legitimate concerns about the nature of the practice and organisation. It is the expression of these that you, with your dogmatic clinging to him and his teachings, turn in your own mind into 'constant Goenka bashing'

Entropic has recently joined the forum and that discussion he is playing the opposite role to you but is equally dogmatic and in this you both miss the point: clinging to view is wrong view.

Just be nice DT, i'm putting a bit of myself out there in every post. My intentions are harmless.

Oh, and put away the pocket thesaurus, some of us have a limited vocabulary. :-*

You are the one not being nice here my friend, don't fool yourself - your post above and many others are full of passive aggression.

Additionally I would say you rarely put yourself out on the forum, you put out Mr Goenka's words as if they are your own and quite repetitively. If anyone desires to hear that they can listen to his discourses.

When you encounter language you do not understand I would suggest you take the time to educate yourself: using the many online and offline resources available. It will serve you better in your understanding of the teachings than attacking others.

Matthew
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redalert

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Re: Earth, water, air, fire?
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2013, 01:51:10 PM »
Entropic has recently joined the forum and that discussion he is playing the opposite role to you but is equally dogmatic and in this you both miss the point: clinging to view is wrong view.

I only see suffering.


You are the one not being nice here my friend, don't fool yourself - your post above and many others are full of passive aggression.

Additionally I would say you rarely put yourself out on the forum, you put out Mr Goenka's words as if they are your own and quite repetitively. If anyone desires to hear that they can listen to his discourses.

When you encounter language you do not understand I would suggest you take the time to educate yourself: using the many online and offline resources available. It will serve you better in your understanding of the teachings than attacking others.

I only see suffering.


Just so you don't confuse this and think I'm being mean, the suffering seen is within.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 02:00:55 PM by redalert »

Dharmic Tui

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Re: Earth, water, air, fire?
« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2013, 07:29:06 PM »
True, but people can only practice at the level of acceptance they are capable of. This is why I constantly say in threads regarding dogs, elements, Goenka, etc.... it is not about winning(being right), it is how you play the game. Can we practice while communicating to each other, can we see the words and the message within, without losing the balance of our mind and responding with blind emotion.

When I type a post, I keep my attention focused within, I observe the thought formations as I try to interpret responses and as I respond to them. I type, I check my emotions, if I notice that part of what I have written was done blindly, contains ill will, is untruthful, or that I feel will not be of benefit, then I do my best to rewrite it, or simply do not post it. I wish I could say that I am always successful in this department, I really do try.

I take the Post button VERY seriously, especially knowing how many here feel towards my tradition. Honestly, I feel a great deal of underlying anger at this forum, I am trying to cut through this as best I know how.
Well there's no anger on my side. If I can be blunt and to the point I think a lot of the division comes down to a distinct difference in how we approach this path, or maybe just where we are on it. Even in that body of text above, you seem to be very much caught up in rigorously scrutinising every facet and action of your existence, and trying to add meaning to everything. You're still over here, and everything else is over there, and you seem to have to try and understand it all and place yourself within everything rather than just seeing yourself as indistinct from everything.

I don't have to contemplate and dwell on things like this. I used to, but no longer. I just sit in the field of awareness and relish whatever happens past me for however long it's there, I don't need to inspect or break it down. I'm not for a second saying I'm enlightened by any means, but a large part of me that would get caught up in all the details like you seem to is dead.

Maybe you'll see that one day, maybe it's not even something you've considered exists or is possible, I don't know. But true peace isn't in measuring and rumination, it's in the abandonment of it. Less is definitely more.
I get that you are a well educated fellow
I'm not very well educated. Most of my adult life has been in construction trades. I just prefer a large vocabulary as it a) allows points to be conveyed in less words and b) removes a level of ambiguity in posts.

Anyway, I won't go on, and hopefully some of what I've said resonates for you, I've only put them out there for you to have a think about, scoring points or winning isn't why I'm here.

redalert

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Re: Earth, water, air, fire?
« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2013, 01:37:19 AM »
Well there's no anger on my side.

As I have said before, I do not detect anger in your posts.


If I can be blunt and to the point I think a lot of the division comes down to a distinct difference in how we approach this path, or maybe just where we are on it.

Yes, there is a difference in how we approach the path. I will not discuss this difference as I feel it would not be beneficial, but it is why initially some people have difficulties accepting Mr. Goenka's method of teaching.

To clarify, I am not suggesting that you or others are not practicing the 8-fold noble path, but there is definitely a different approach being used by Goenka and it is not the sweeping method. Unless you have sat the retreats and observed the way they are conducted (even by videotape), you will not see this difference. As I am sure your own teachers have their particularities. This difference makes the courses extremely intensive, and this is why it is definitely not appealing for everyone.

I'm sure where we are on the path will have us acting and behaving in a different fashion, but I like to think of us as Smurfs, as we get closer to the final goal the fetters will drop away and we will become pure in heart and mind, like a Smurf, and like a Smurf we will each retain our individual unique personality. Some are grumpy, some are sleepy, some are funny, some are serious, some are brainy, etc.....


Even in that body of text above, you seem to be very much caught up in rigorously scrutinising every facet and action of your existence, and trying to add meaning to everything.

This is because I have not had much success communicating online, i'm very new to this. 2 yrs. ago I did not know how to use a computer. I had all these things that I wished to communicate to people about, with regards to meditation. These topics made perfect sense to me in my head but when I tried to type it out, it got jumbled, as I did not even know how to make a sentence and put thoughts to screen(still suck at this). I also did not know how to edit or navigate through the forums, I did not know that certain things were considered taboo to talk about, had no idea about suttas and the given importance to them, and ended up getting a lot of people mad at me and thinking I was some sort of troll.

Basically I'm working very hard to not get banned from here, given the range of topics I like to discuss, and my level of activity. I try to use a lot of humour but it is clearly not working. People want me to go away and they have made that clear to me in PM's.

You're still over here, and everything else is over there, and you seem to have to try and understand it all and place yourself within everything rather than just seeing yourself as indistinct from everything.

Others have asked me why I wish to understand things, and why don't I just accept the teachings. Then I observe these people getting angry and really frusterated in day to day life and the anger seems to have left me. The way I am practicing is working, it is helping me to remain equanimous with life.
I don't have to contemplate and dwell on things like this. I used to, but no longer. I just sit in the field of awareness and relish whatever happens past me for however long it's there, I don't need to inspect or break it down.
This is where our understanding differs, I don't sit in the field of awareness, I am the awareness that observes experience.


I'm not for a second saying I'm enlightened by any means, but a large part of me that would get caught up in all the details like you seem to is dead.

I'm sure you are enlightened/awakened to some extent, your anger is gone or diminished and that's wonderful. I enjoy contemplating as part of my practice at this moment, why so much concern?

But true peace isn't in measuring and rumination, it's in the abandonment of it. Less is definitely more.
If you want to talk some more about peace I'm in but back in the other thread. This one is way off topic as it is. ;D
 
I just prefer a large vocabulary as it a) allows points to be conveyed in less words and b) removes a level of ambiguity in posts.

The Dhamma must be accessible to all, to people with little to no education, to people with little or no money, it must simply be accessible. Talking in complex words may ease your burdens but it limits what you are expressing to those with a similar vocabulary.

Matthew

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Re: Earth, water, air, fire?
« Reply #39 on: September 16, 2013, 02:42:38 AM »
red,

This is a forum with a central theme of practice, insight and awareness.

This is plainly stated in the forum rules and is the purpose of this space. It is not a playground for ideas, meaningless speculation, purely intellectual discussion or anything else - it is about personal experience of practice, mutual support and discussion of how we can help each other through our experience and understanding.

True, but people can only practice at the level of acceptance they are capable of.

People can only practice to the level that they have heard, understood and put into practice the Dhamma.

This is why I constantly say in threads regarding dogs, elements, Goenka, etc.... it is not about winning(being right), it is how you play the game.

It seems to me from your posting that you are unaware of your own need to be right. Playing with mediation is being a dabbler - meditation is not a game but part of a path towards understanding the nature of self and manifesting free of the mask of ego and with compassion. Being a member of a community following this path demands consideration of others.

Can we practice while communicating to each other, can we see the words and the message within, without losing the balance of our mind and responding with blind emotion.

If the practice is good the fruits will be good, including clear communication. There need not be a need to decipher meaning. Seeking clarification is sometimes needed but when this turns to verbal warfare we have lost sight of the path and goal.

When I type a post, I keep my attention focused within, I observe the thought formations as I try to interpret responses and as I respond to them.

It seems you are over-analysing on a frequent basis. Responses are what they are and if you are always interpreting them then that is something to reflect upon.

I type, I check my emotions, if I notice that part of what I have written was done blindly, contains ill will, is untruthful, or that I feel will not be of benefit, then I do my best to rewrite it, or simply do not post it. I wish I could say that I am always successful in this department, I really do try.

Again you seem to over-analyse on the one hand and not know yourself as well as you think on the other.

I take the Post button VERY seriously, especially knowing how many here feel towards my tradition.

Playing games, taking the post button seriously .. This is contradictory.

"My tradition" - did you contemplate this phrase? You are clinging to view so much that you take ownership of Mr Goenka's teachings?

You some time ago accepted on behalf of Mr Goenka an apology I did not offer to him. I let it go at the time but it seems timely to point that out. You are not in a position to do anything for Mr Goenka or on his behalf, especially accept apologies that were not offered.

Honestly, I feel a great deal of underlying anger at this forum, I am trying to cut through this as best I know how.

Your own anger is where your efforts are best directed. When I have posted replies to you often the response is dismissive, joking or completely unrelated - this is a sign of buried anger.

I have been accused of playing games with words on this forum, this is not my intention.

I believe and trust this is not your intention, yet you do so and it is not helping you or others. You want to invent your own language at times, relate practice to outmoded understandings for fun and frankly do not always respond honestly, though you may not be aware of this.

My understanding of the Dhamma is difficult to express, although it is clearly understood to me, it is difficult for me to express(paint my picture) in a way that is to be helpful and understood. I will keep trying and hopefully improve in this department.

Herein lies the root of the problem: all the problems you are encountering here: you cannot express your understanding of the Dhamma. Ask yourself why?

If you are honest with yourself you will begin to understand something DT has been pointing out for a while: you are constantly trying to intellectualise the Dhamma and in doing so you weaken your practice of the Dhamma and therefore your understanding of it. Stop trying to put it in a box of words. Live it. And don't try and teach if you are incapable of putting it into words.

The problem is not your inability to use computers or express yourself, it is a basic lack of true experiential knowledge.

I am accused of being a Goenka tape-recording constantly(tired)

This is rather true, both that you are accused and that you are.

You constantly try and frame everything in Goenka-talk but as you admit above, you cannot express the Dhamma. More practise and less words is the answer.

and not possessing any thoughts of my own(funny),

Clearly you have thoughts of your own. They are not well formed as your admission you cannot express the Dhamma shows.

The above is also a classic example of repressed anger though: this situation is not funny for anyone, it is frustrating or angering.

but when I start a new topic for the fun of exploration and expression it is not received well, and seems to go off-topic and downhill quickly.

Yes, because starting a topic for fun is an ego-game. It is not conducive to practicing or understanding the Dhamma, it is entertainment. It really is not what the forum is about.

If you all don't want me here, take a vote, I'll accept the decision.

Firstly, that's not how things happen here:

The community usually decides through consensus if a situation deteriorates to such a dire level.

You do not seem to have noticed but members have been incredibly patient with you, have tried hard to communicate and have spent much time engaging with you.

Nobody is asking you to leave.

I am asking you to stop being so reactive, to stop framing every answer in Goenka-talk, to stick to the forums purpose and only to answer questions when you are able to explain your understanding of Dhamma behind the answer.

If you examine that request I hope you will see it is reasonable.

Please take some time off from the forum before responding to this post in order to reflect upon what I have said.

Give it a couple of days, don't read the forum or post: reflect on what I have written and show some patience. I am not banning you but requesting politely that you respect this request to show good faith and that you have taken the time to reflect.

Matthew
« Last Edit: September 16, 2013, 02:50:46 AM by Matthew »
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redalert

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Re: Earth, water, air, fire?
« Reply #40 on: September 16, 2013, 12:07:53 PM »
Now that the air has been cleared, Back to topic.

Sitting for me is an exploration of time. It has been like starting from the core of the planet, the sensations felt were very burning, pressurised, very intense, my identification with them really intensified these sensations, my body felt like it was burning, my blood felt like lava pumping through my veins. No escape, I had to look at these sensations, and accept them, as this moment in time.

 Slowly they changed and it felt as though the enormous pressure was easing, the intense burning subsided and it felt somewhat cooler as though I had entered from molten lava into the ocean depths, still pressure but not as intense, there was some movement, waves could be felt, there was extreme cold and my limbs felt shivery, not subtle still intense. Again no escape just observation and acceptance, time had given me something else to observe.

Moving through the watery depths exploring all the different sensations available, suddenly it was as though my head popped up from above the water, and the warm yellow light touched my skin, the sensations were subtler, warm and lighter than any before. Oh how I liked these, then I found myself back under the water, oh the dread, then back in the fire.

This pattern repeats until acceptance of all the sensations, no craving no clinging. surfacing from the watery depths the air was cool and the sky dark and a white circular disc was seen in the sky, its night, different sensations but subtle. There is sand under my feet, I feel the pressure, acceptance, lying down on the beach breathing for the first time, realising that I was all this before, that I have always been this, no fear, only love and acceptance of this moment. When the warm yellow light of the morning came up on the horizon, it was time, no resistance, the body simply faded away........


Dharmic Tui

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Re: Earth, water, air, fire?
« Reply #41 on: September 16, 2013, 06:28:34 PM »
If that's the sort of reply you were expecting from others it's little wonder you've found the posts so off topic.

Matthew

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Re: Earth, water, air, fire?
« Reply #42 on: September 16, 2013, 08:03:35 PM »
Quote
Please take some time off from the forum before responding to this post in order to reflect upon what I have said.

Give it a couple of days, don't read the forum or post: reflect on what I have written and show some patience. I am not banning you but requesting politely that you respect this request to show good faith and that you have taken the time to reflect

Quote
Now that the air has been cleared, Back to topic.

8 hrs 9 minutes might be a record for you but falls short of my polite request. And It's back to business, you ignore 100% any emotion despite what must have been difficult things to read, irrespective of any agreement or not. And not a single point either agreed with, answered or challenged.

After six years I've been here a few times.

Can you avoid reacting to this post? Can you take time to reflect? Or is mind's grip so compelling  you must take up the keyboard?

Reacting is the land of the fool,, responding that of the wise.
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redalert

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Re: Earth, water, air, fire?
« Reply #43 on: September 22, 2013, 10:20:30 PM »
If that's the sort of reply you were expecting from others it's little wonder you've found the posts so off topic.

No real expectations DT, I am just finding my practice becoming more spiritual as I walk the path. Insights have been presenting themselves with greater detail. My understanding of nature and my place in it has become more than just sitting and letting go of things. Contemplation of these insights has led to a much deeper understanding of the Dhamma. The depth of this understanding allows the letting go process to be very natural and not forced in any way. I have no desire to be further along the path, I'm simply enjoying the journey.

Mpgkona

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Re: Earth, water, air, fire?
« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2013, 10:43:46 PM »
Nice to see you back Red!

When you use the term "spiritual," what do you mean by this. This word has become so cliche these days and I am very often confused by what people mean by this. I'm not knocking your use of it, just looking for clarification. Thanks.
When you change the way you look at things the things you look at change.

redalert

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Re: Earth, water, air, fire?
« Reply #45 on: September 23, 2013, 12:03:42 AM »
Nice to see you back Red!

Thank-you Mpgkona :)


When you use the term "spiritual," what do you mean by this.

Experiencing past lives on some very intimate levels, not mine but others lives, and coming to the understanding that we are being influenced by these past lives moment to moment. We experience these past lives as bodily sensations and are reacting to them constantly. It seems that if my concentration is strong and the conditions are right, penetration into a singular sensation may occur. This has occurred at varying levels, from some very intimate experiences of past lives, where I have experienced the thoughts of some very kind people reacting in some extremely difficult life threatening situations. I have experienced their sensations and thoughts as though they were my own, while this occurs one would not know that this was not as real as my everyday reality seems to be.

At other times I am shown things in dream like states, simple things like a book title or the relabeling of a discourse I have previously listened to with a different title. The different title allows me to rethink the discourse in a completely different way. This seems to be how some insights present themselves to me. Like a flash of very simple everyday things but at exactly the right time to allow for a deeper understanding to reveal itself.

Understand that my meditation practice remains the same, I just practice as taught without craving for or thinking of these flashes, and at times they happen.
I reflect on these afterwards and they have been very helpful.

Kindly,
Red


Dharmic Tui

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Re: Earth, water, air, fire?
« Reply #46 on: September 23, 2013, 02:13:20 AM »
It would appear then our paths are almost the total opposite. I have started from a position of thought, and am moving away from it as a point of relevance towards my being, you are doing the reverse.

I like Robert Halls discourse in regards to letting go of thought, seems to sum up my thoughts towards this matter, if you've the time to listen:

http://roberthalldharmatalks.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/drm_85_track_trk003-20-11.mp3

Mpgkona

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Re: Earth, water, air, fire?
« Reply #47 on: September 23, 2013, 04:48:12 AM »
Just like DT I used to think, analyze, and try to interpret everything going on around me and in my meditation. But then I came to realize (in my opinion) the burden that is created by over intellectualizing phenomena. Nowadays I simply observe it and move on quickly. I have actually become less spiritual, religious, or whatever one wants to call it since I began meditation, and I believe this is due directly to not analyzing phenomena before, during, or after meditation. Red, I hear what you say is happening to you lately, and it sounds interesting and although you say you have no attachment or aversion to it it actually seems like there is a bit of craving on your part to these phenomena. That's just what I gather from your "tone" in your post. When I say tone I mean the way you relate these experiences, it seems like they are pleasant to you. Would you write so much about them if they were unpleasant? But since this is an online forum and we're dealing solely with words maybe I'm misinterpreting.
When you change the way you look at things the things you look at change.

Dharmic Tui

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Re: Earth, water, air, fire?
« Reply #48 on: September 23, 2013, 05:22:11 AM »
Ayup. It’s taken me a while to identify why there is often so little written about Jhanic states and bare attention and in hindsight it seems so obvious. It is almost impossible to put into words the euphoria derived from abandoning all reason, all thought, and just watching the flow of things as they are, without trying to change, understand, measure or own them.

redalert

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Re: Earth, water, air, fire?
« Reply #49 on: September 23, 2013, 01:03:22 PM »
Just like DT I used to think, analyze, and try to interpret everything going on around me and in my meditation. But then I came to realize (in my opinion) the burden that is created by over intellectualizing phenomena. Nowadays I simply observe it and move on quickly.

Yes and I agree, move on(beyond), letting go, but things are sticky or secretly we wish to push them away. We run the risk of supressing, a habit we are all to familiar with. Anything that manifests itself in meditation I look at, study, break it down. I observe this phenomenon until its hold on me naturally releases, at this point this phenomenon or others of similar nature have no hold on me.

I have actually become less spiritual, religious, or whatever one wants to call it since I began meditation,
I come from a background of much pain and physical abuse, I closed my world off at a very early age for protection. Essentially I built a wall around me and kept adding layers and layers. A huge part of this wall broke down and the spiritual aspect of life has returned, or better put, I am able to see it now clearer and clearer. There is no craving for this, as there is no need to crave for sensation, it is simply there when you look.


  That's just what I gather from your "tone" in your post. When I say tone I mean the way you relate these experiences, it seems like they are pleasant to you. Would you write so much about them if they were unpleasant?

I have sat through pleasant and unpleasant and the grossest forms of these have mostly fissled away. My meditation has become subtle and peaceful for the most part. Compassion for others has begun to increase, I feel drawn towards serving others in a dhamma fashion, so they to can receive this benefit. These are qualities I wish to encourage within. These experiences are not new to me, they have been happening for some time. I don't know why others do not write about them or share them, it took me some time to feel comfortable to share this and perhaps this will change in the future. It does not feel wrong that I share this, I do not feel an energy drain if they are not accepted by you all as I feel I would have in the past. Perhaps there is some freedom from these.

I do appreciate the concern,
Red

 

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