Author Topic: how do enlightened people feel anger  (Read 5931 times)

brdlo

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how do enlightened people feel anger
« on: May 03, 2013, 10:36:44 AM »
well I often have a problems with anger, and i don't know how to control it in a right manner. I was wondering how do enlightened people deal feel anger.

Can they be angry? If anger exist do they feel it like ordinary people?
For example someone punch my child, do I feel anger? If I feel it how do I feel it. Is it separated from my body?. Is it like some kind of energy that forces me to react, or what?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 10:39:45 AM by brdlo »

Re: how do enlightened people feel anger
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2013, 11:33:18 AM »
an enlightened being is free from seeds of negativity.... so no.. they dont feel anger or its better to say that there is no trace of reaction to anger.

better give more time to practice, intellectual thinking dont answer these questions.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 11:36:22 AM by siddharthgode »

redalert

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Re: how do enlightened people feel anger
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2013, 12:48:01 AM »
well I often have a problems with anger, and i don't know how to control it in a right manner.
As we develope sati(awareness) we start to break apart the wall of identification with the self. In the beginning anger can come quickly like a huge wave and before we know it we have identified with it and are reacting blindly towards it. When this occurs there is probably not enough awareness to come out of it, so when it passes be honest, do not make excuses about the anger, accept that at that moment you were angry. Do not criticise yourself for becoming angry do not make it into a problem, be happy that you have come out of this anger and are once again aware. With continued practice the time you spend in anger will decrease and you will naturally find yourself catching the anger in its early stages and you will not react blindly towards it(you will not give it any energy).

I was wondering how do enlightened people deal feel anger.

Can they be angry? If anger exist do they feel it like ordinary people?
Dipa ma was a very experienced meditator and highly developed human being, She did not claim to be fully awakened but I believe was very close. She said she could feel the anger arising(sensations) along with the corresponding thoughts, but it would not develope into anything she simply did not feed it, and it would pass away very quickly. She had accumulated enough wisdom to know that feeding thoughts of anger would lead to suffering, and her awareness was so strong that these thoughts could not enter and go unnoticed long enough to gain the strength to overpower her.

I can only assume that a fully awakened being (arahant) would not have a moment lapse without sati(awareness) and would catch thoughts that otherwise could lead to anger instantly thereby giving them no energy whatsoever to develope. They would also have limitless compassion and would probably not even generate thoughts with a root of anger.


Falkov

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Re: how do enlightened people feel anger
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2013, 04:12:57 AM »
There are different causes of anger: some may not have anything to do w/ negativity but more of a concern (teacher teaching student).     I am sure enlightened person feels everything like everyone else: hunger, fear (primal fear like fear of height), sadness/ happiness, hot/cold,etc.   

If you have an anger issue, I would say you are on the right path for accepting your own demon.  Now you are gonna keep working on it, until it can no longer control you.   Don' t worry- you are gonna fail, but you are gonna get back up many, many times- just the way it is.  The bottom line is- is emotion controlling you or you are in charge of it  ( I am avoiding using the word controlling the anger, as you progress through meditation you will understand why not to control emotion but to instead acknowledge them)

You mentioned about how you should feel if someone punched your kid, did that already happened?  Because creating the "negative" what if, can get you worked up for no reason- the mind already jumped to the conclusion while the actual event is not even there- yet.    Don't worry about how the other (enlightened) person should feel, this is your own battle which you need to face it yourself.   How?  -it's really up to you.  If you do it right, there will be peace and happiness.  If you do it wrong, there will be more suffering - repeating the same mistakes over and over.

Billymac629

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Re: how do enlightened people feel anger
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2013, 02:39:27 PM »
well I often have a problems with anger, and i don't know how to control it in a right manner. I was wondering how do enlightened people deal feel anger.

Can they be angry? If anger exist do they feel it like ordinary people?
For example someone punch my child, do I feel anger? If I feel it how do I feel it. Is it separated from my body?. Is it like some kind of energy that forces me to react, or what?
it depends on what level of enlightenment you are referring to in the ariya sangha (the Buddha's noble ones):
 
Sotapannas (stream-enterers) and Sakadagamis (once-returners) still become angry
but I believe Anagamis (non-returners) do not
and Arahants (fully awakened ones) do not

maha metta
Nothing in this world is to be clung to as I, me, or mine...

Matthew

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    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: how do enlightened people feel anger
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2013, 04:31:07 AM »
an enlightened being is free from seeds of negativity.... so no.. they dont feel anger or its better to say that there is no trace of reaction to anger.

Can't find the Sutta now but there is one in the Middle Length Discourses whereby the Buddha is disturbed by a bunch of young monks who are being rowdy and not acting in line with his teachings. He is not exactly angry, however, he is definitely stern with them and makes it abundantly clear that if they don't sort their shit out the door is open for them to leave the Sangha and he will push them through it.

better give more time to practice, intellectual thinking dont answer these questions.

Middle way, practice and contemplation. But in principle you are on the nail for the majority of us as we absolutely over-think every damn thing.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

redalert

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Re: how do enlightened people feel anger
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2013, 12:28:25 PM »


Can't find the Sutta now but there is one in the Middle Length Discourses whereby the Buddha is disturbed by a bunch of young monks who are being rowdy and not acting in line with his teachings. He is not exactly angry, however, he is definitely stern with them and makes it abundantly clear that if they don't sort their shit out the door is open for them to leave the Sangha and he will push them through it.


Harsh speech is at times necessary. As long as the volition behind it is pure.

JamesT79

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Re: how do enlightened people feel anger
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2013, 04:27:27 PM »
Anger is my most destructive emotion. I like the concept of not giving it energy, I shall try that in future.

Renze

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Re: how do enlightened people feel anger
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2013, 09:19:46 PM »
an enlightened being is free from seeds of negativity.... so no.. they dont feel anger or its better to say that there is no trace of reaction to anger.

Can't find the Sutta now but there is one in the Middle Length Discourses whereby the Buddha is disturbed by a bunch of young monks who are being rowdy and not acting in line with his teachings. He is not exactly angry, however, he is definitely stern with them and makes it abundantly clear that if they don't sort their shit out the door is open for them to leave the Sangha and he will push them through it.

better give more time to practice, intellectual thinking dont answer these questions.

Middle way, practice and contemplation. But in principle you are on the nail for the majority of us as we absolutely over-think every damn thing.

I wanted to bring this thread back up again, because I recently stumbled upon this interesting part of the Patimokkha. There was a monk who broke the rule of celibacy, felt remorse and confessed to his fellow bhikkhus. Word reached the Buddha, and this is what he said to the monk:

Quote
"'Worthless man, it is unseemly, out of line, unsuitable, and unworthy of a contemplative; improper and not to be done... Haven't I taught the Dhamma in many ways for the sake of dispassion and not for passion; for unfettering and not for fettering; for freedom from clinging and not for clinging? Yet here, while I have taught the Dhamma for dispassion, you set your heart on passion; while I have taught the Dhamma for unfettering, you set your heart on being fettered; while I have taught the Dhamma for freedom from clinging, you set your heart on clinging.

"'Worthless man, haven't I taught the Dhamma in many ways for the fading of passion, the sobering of intoxication, the subduing of thirst, the destruction of attachment, the severing of the round, the ending of craving, dispassion, cessation, unbinding? Haven't I in many ways advocated abandoning sensual pleasures, comprehending sensual perceptions, subduing sensual thirst, destroying sensual thoughts, calming sensual fevers? Worthless man, it would be better that your penis be stuck into the mouth of a poisonous snake than into a woman's vagina. It would be better that your penis be stuck into the mouth of a black viper than into a woman's vagina. It would be better that your penis be stuck into a pit of burning embers, blazing and glowing, than into a woman's vagina. Why is that? For that reason you would undergo death or death-like suffering, but you would not on that account, at the break-up of the body, after death, fall into deprivation, the bad destination, the abyss, hell. But for this reason you would, at the break-up of the body, after death, fall into deprivation, the bad destination, the abyss, hell...

"'Worthless man, this neither inspires faith in the faithless nor increases the faithful. Rather, it inspires lack of faith in the faithless and wavering in some of the faithful.'"

It can be found here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/bmc1/bmc1.intro.html

I was quite surprised the Buddha used such harsh speech.

Matthew

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    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: how do enlightened people feel anger
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2013, 11:05:11 PM »
It sounds like a later enhanced rendition of what really happened, created perhaps in the minds of followers some generations later.

The words are of a religious dictator not a compassionate Buddha to my ear. I cannot imagine the Buddha using the phrase 'worthless man' - I can imagine people a couple of generations after him trying to defend the sangha's reputation by using them, at a time when it was rife with splits and division.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Johann (Hanzze)

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Re: how do enlightened people feel anger
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2013, 04:00:17 AM »
Even at Buddhas Time, there have been many who have been not pleased by what he taught. Right speech does not mean pleasant at the first place, but first of all right and than all that is proper for the situation and supportive.

How general doubt when hearing Dhamma comes into being, the The Discourse on Future Dangers  might explain how it comes.

Buddha was a teacher and he took care of his disciples and Sangha. Even it is a fact that he preferred to leave troubles behind, he did all possible to keep everything on the right track.

It is a today's believe that thing work out by them selves, actually corruption is what lasts it, what will work out more and more, if there are no corrections of faults.

Not easy, but at least Buddha gave the Dhamma more value as any in honest agreements and compromise for the sake of common gains and worldly success.

There are many suttas which could annoy for new comers to Dhamma. And that is normal and usual till one get's the whole impression of the teachings.
John Bullitt wrote a really useful and helpful guide for readers of suttas: "Befriending the Suttas -Tips on Reading the Pali Discourses

As for the OP,
feeling do not decay, its just that you would not pick them up any more knowing what they are. To thing, I am a bad person, because I have bad emotions coming up is not good but to observe and recognize feeling coming up will not let them find an anchor in the mind. As soon they realize that they are seen the vanish by them self.
It's just if you point with a finger on a man of less virtue and look into his eyes. He suddenly comes why and what and disappears again. Even no need to by aversive at all toward it.

So it's good to recognize, that there is a different between letting go and dislike. As taught, hostility can not be overcome by hostility, and that counts for all kind of feeling.

A nice short story:

He does, but he doesn't   

In 1979, Luang Pu went to Chantaburi to rest and to visit with Ajaan Somchai. On that occasion, a senior monk from Bangkok — Phra Dhammavaralankan of Wat Buppharam, the ecclesiastical head of the southern region of the country — was also there, practicing meditation in his old age, being only one year younger than Luang Pu. When he learned that Luang Pu was a meditation monk, he became interested and engaged Luang Pu in a long conversation on the results of meditation. He mentioned his responsibilities, saying that he had wasted a lot of his life engaged in study and administration work well into his old age. He discussed different points of meditation practice with Luang Pu, finally asking him, "Do you still have any anger?"

Luang Pu immediately answered,

"I do, but I don't pick it up."

 :angel:  :)

dimeo

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Re: how do enlightened people feel anger
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2013, 02:29:09 AM »
Everyone experiences anger, and it's part of the human condition. 

The idea of the teachings is ultimately liberation from suffering.
The  Noble Eightfold Path leads to this.   Anger is one of the “three poisons” of Buddhism.   Typically, anger clouds the clarity of the mind.

I've heard before the idea in zen that anger can come and go like a thunderclap.  I've always been a bit puzzled by this idea, but it makes some sense in this idea that all phenomena in nature will arise and cease.  It is what it is.   Nature can be fearsome, so we learn to not fight it, but live in harmony with it and respect it. 

   For whatever the reason, anger does exist and arises.   We shouldn't cling to it!  The sooner we 'get over' our anger the sooner we can return to living in harmony and being compassionate.


 

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