Author Topic: Main Vipassana Objects  (Read 7170 times)

Flipasso

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Main Vipassana Objects
« on: May 06, 2008, 07:09:49 PM »
What are the main Vipassana objects you put your focus on?

Re: Main Vipassana Objects
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2008, 10:35:42 AM »
I do the method suggested by S N Goenka. Focus on the breath sensation caused in between the nostril and lips, At the first 5 minutes it wanders for a more longer time if I have done more wondering on any thought during the day, later in about 15 minutes it gets concentrated, later I try to do few rounds of body scanning for sensations .
Need to do a lot  :-\.


Matthew

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Re: Main Vipassana Objects
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2008, 12:48:53 PM »
Breath. Thoughts. Feelings. Body. Sensations. Sounds. My reactions.

In the Dhamma,

Matthew
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greenhorn

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Re: Main Vipassana Objects
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2008, 04:42:34 PM »
Thank you Matthew for the email you sent me. I never really dared to share my thoughts online, because I thought you all must have gone through the beginner's stages and I would have bored you.
But here I am now with a question that I think might have contributed to me dropping the whole Vipassana meditation altogether.
I went for a 10 day retreat in Jan this year and was excited about it and continued practising it religiously for a month every morning for an hour. But slowly my enthusiasm dropped and this question never let me in peace.
I found there's a paradox in the process of meditation, in the sense that being aware of every moment (say every breath) means focusing , trying to focus on the breath even when other thoughts come to mind.So then how do u keep coming back to the breath(as they tell us) without repressing other thoughts?? Because if you don't follow a thought, what do you do with it, u're repressing it and then the next morning again you find some peace of mind and those repressed thoughts come back and what do you do? You keep coming back to the breath and repress the thoughts again. Am I making any sense? 

Now I'm reading Ajahn Brahm's Mindfulness, and it's very helpful to see he actually talks about the hindrances in meditation.I guess Doubt stopped me. But also the fact that I can't keep up to a routine.I'm a Vata person :(         

Now  I don't know how to get back on the track. I feel Vipassana in the S.N. Goenka tradition is too much for me. I find scanning body parts boring.:( I almost feel afraid to tell you this, because you guys all seem to be so INTO it.


Flipasso

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Re: Main Vipassana Objects
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2008, 08:08:39 PM »
Goenka doesn't advise witnessing thoughts. Other meditation teachers do.
I read a text online that one should even provoke strange thoughts to happen so that one could watch how pointless our thoughts really are.
If you like this (thought observing) practice more, then I think Mindfulness in Plain English is a good book for you.
Another book I like very much but in which you're not advised to witness thoughts, but instead to notice them and label them is The Essentials of Insight Meditation Practice.
They're both on book recommendations on the forum so check it out.

happiness@you.all

Matthew

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Re: Main Vipassana Objects
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2008, 11:52:04 PM »
I found there's a paradox in the process of meditation, in the sense that being aware of every moment (say every breath) means focusing , trying to focus on the breath even when other thoughts come to mind.So then how do u keep coming back to the breath(as they tell us) without repressing other thoughts?? Because if you don't follow a thought, what do you do with it, u're repressing it and then the next morning again you find some peace of mind and those repressed thoughts come back and what do you do? You keep coming back to the breath and repress the thoughts again. Am I making any sense?

Yes. You don't repress the thoughts but you don't get hooked into them. You notice them and watch the thought, just don't get into an internal dialogue.

e.g

Sitting meditating, thought comes up "I am hungry". Habitual reaction is to start thinking about food, whats in the fridge, do I have to go to the shop? etc etc. In Shamhata/Vipasssana one of the things you are trying to develop is your concentration. You are concentrating on the breath - but this is perhaps 50% of your attention. You are also aware of body and mind. But when the thought comes up "I am hungry" you notice it without judging it, see it arise, feel it sit there for a moment, label it as "thinking" verbally in your head, watch it disappear, then return to noticing the breath. Doing this over and over again you will develop a greater and greater level of concentration.

As to keeping up a routine it works really well to add it to your morning one. And start with 10 minutes or 20 minutes if an hour is too long. Don't beat yourself up. Wake, stretch, shower, sit, breakfast is a good recipe. Think of it as part of your daily hygiene routine. A similar routine in the evening to fit with your lifestyle is best.

And regarding body scans ... I haven't studied with Goenka. Body scans are something I get done in hospital when I am ill. I pay attention to my body when sitting but not in the Goenka way.

And ... welcome :) glad you posted.

In the Dhamma,

Matthew
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Juan

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Re: Main Vipassana Objects
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2008, 12:37:54 AM »
HI!
I haven't posted in a while and i just found this thread and i found it very interesting because just a while ago i was listening to this dhamma talks by Ven. Ajaan Panya. And he set this very interesting example: Your dealing with the thoughts that arise in anapanasati must be the same way you drive a car. Say that you are driving the car and the passenger is talking to you, you are listening but suddenly you come across a difficult crossroads, your attention then focuses on the action of driving and getting across, and the voice of the passenger goes to the back, you still can hear it but you are not "listening". The same thing you must do when meditating, your attention must be on the breath (driving) and when a thought comes you just refocus on breath, do not repress anything that arises, just send it to the back and refocus on breath. This has helped me a lot!  :)

greenhorn

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Re: Main Vipassana Objects
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2008, 10:50:49 PM »
 
Matthew,
''Yes. You don't repress the thoughts but you don't get hooked into them. You notice them and watch the thought, just don't get into an internal dialogue.''

Thanks for your reply. I guess my problem has always been too much thinking and analyzing. I'm just too obsessed with 'where do those thoughts go' when they..perish?:) The 10 day meditation retreat was supposed to be a purification process, and the way I understood this purification was twofold: on the one hand, when mind settles down, all the repressed thoughts come to the surface, you face them and you're ..healed as long as you don't react to them with anger or sadness etc; in the same manner you react without clinging to the nice, good thoughts that may emerge. On the other hand I also saw sitting as purification in the sense that you no longer generate 'unwholesome' thoughts, so that's also spiritual cleaning.

It's so funny that things seemed to fall into space while I was doing meditation, and it seems to me now that I forgot everything. How can the human mind be so..shallow? :)

As regarding your suggestion of using labeling, I realize now I was actually doing it unconsciously, but always thought, again, in the Geonka tradition, that it's not good. Because if you're thinking about thinking, you're not actually ...present. The present moment slips by.

Last question, how do you watch your body while meditating? I usually just tried being aware of all sensations across body parts, but I guess it started to be boring because i always had more or less same sensations, and even if theoretically I kept telling myself, that's actually meditating, having no expectations whatsoever, I still started to dread the sittings and stopped. Ajahn Brahm was saying if sitting is sth you don't look forward to it makes no sense, and he's right. Another piece of advice I got from a monk, yet, was this: isn't EATING boring? isn't SLEEPING boring? And I guess both of you are right: it has to be part of a daily mental hygiene. And I will take your advice, I'll start by doing little. Maybe I'll accomplish more.:)

Monica
e.g

 

Matthew

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Re: Main Vipassana Objects
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2008, 07:53:44 AM »
I guess my problem has always been too much thinking and analyzing. I'm just too obsessed with 'where do those thoughts go' when they..perish?:)

You will not answer that question with thinking or analysing as thinking consists of thoughts. You will answer that question by watching where the thoughts go if you stop entertaining them with dialogue.

In the Dhamma,

Matthew
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pamojjam

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Re: Main Vipassana Objects
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2008, 09:31:50 AM »
Hi all,

You will answer that question by watching where the thoughts go if you stop entertaining them with dialogue.

In the Dhamma,

Matthew

Experientially, that's a very interesting question. I found it even more interesting where they start - and I don't mean place wise, but more in terms of time. The place just a millisecond before grammar is able to construct anything..

kind regards..

greenhorn

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Re: Main Vipassana Objects
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2008, 04:45:05 PM »
pammojam,

that's a very nice way to put it:'The place just a millisecond before grammar is able to construct anything..'
i was once also engaged in the mind game while meditating.i wanted to know where thoughts do come from.i was fascinated to actually experience  on my own skin what I learnt from psychology books: thoughts are linked with emotions and there are billions of connections in the mind triggered by emotions. i guess what i was doing was not present moment awareness, but 'letting go' of the flux of consciousness and trying not to analyze, comment on etc.

Matsuemon

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Re: Main Vipassana Objects
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2014, 02:37:08 AM »
Hey Flipasso,
I always focus either on my breathe, or body sensations, since I have a lot of those due to my depression/anxiety problems. That is what usually works great for me

J0rrit

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Re: Main Vipassana Objects
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2014, 10:23:05 AM »
I found there's a paradox in the process of meditation, in the sense that being aware of every moment (say every breath) means focusing , trying to focus on the breath even when other thoughts come to mind.So then how do u keep coming back to the breath(as they tell us) without repressing other thoughts?? Because if you don't follow a thought, what do you do with it, u're repressing it and then the next morning again you find some peace of mind and those repressed thoughts come back and what do you do? You keep coming back to the breath and repress the thoughts again. Am I making any sense?

Yes. You don't repress the thoughts but you don't get hooked into them. You notice them and watch the thought, just don't get into an internal dialogue.

e.g

Sitting meditating, thought comes up "I am hungry". Habitual reaction is to start thinking about food, whats in the fridge, do I have to go to the shop? etc etc. In Shamhata/Vipasssana one of the things you are trying to develop is your concentration. You are concentrating on the breath - but this is perhaps 50% of your attention. You are also aware of body and mind. But when the thought comes up "I am hungry" you notice it without judging it, see it arise, feel it sit there for a moment, label it as "thinking" verbally in your head, watch it disappear, then return to noticing the breath. Doing this over and over again you will develop a greater and greater level of concentration.

As to keeping up a routine it works really well to add it to your morning one. And start with 10 minutes or 20 minutes if an hour is too long. Don't beat yourself up. Wake, stretch, shower, sit, breakfast is a good recipe. Think of it as part of your daily hygiene routine. A similar routine in the evening to fit with your lifestyle is best.

And regarding body scans ... I haven't studied with Goenka. Body scans are something I get done in hospital when I am ill. I pay attention to my body when sitting but not in the Goenka way.

And ... welcome :) glad you posted.

In the Dhamma,

Matthew

But this is not anapana, right? With anapanasati you don't watch the thoughts to the end, till they fall, but you notice them, relax the tension and return to the breath. What is the best way Matthew? I am still confused about the different 'Vipassana and Anapanasatii' techniques, Vipassana being watching the thoughts rise and fall and Anapanasati being you notice the thought and gently and relaxed return to the breath.

Thanks in advance

Re: Main Vipassana Objects
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2014, 06:05:00 PM »
It is very important to be able to catch a thought at its origin. I would advice one to work on being aware of that point when working on concentration in anapana.
It is very important to understand attention and how it works, if one wants to develop sustained concentration. Just blindly bringing back the mind to the object of meditation is not complete exercise.  If one does not work to solve the problem one is facing when doing work then they will never be able to work properly. Dont expect just by doing blind exercise nature will solve your problems and you will enter jhana one day.

Also thoughts are like any other emotion when it comes for attachment.
mmm what i am saying is.... take anger for example, more one rolls in the anger harder it is to come out of it... we create entangles ourself because of ignorance.... so in the beginning we try to come out of anger as soon as we can identify it and strive not to engage in its rolling.
Similarly thoughts grab our desire at the beginning of a thought. Longer we take to get the awareness back to present moment more will be the attachment it creates and harder it is for us to not identify with it.
So it is very important to work on being aware at the moment of origin of a thought.... Dont neglect thoughts.... Study them as much as possible.

Matthew

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Re: Main Vipassana Objects
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2014, 08:06:29 PM »
But this is not anapana, right? With anapanasati you don't watch the thoughts to the end, till they fall, but you notice them, relax the tension and return to the breath. What is the best way Matthew? I am still confused about the different 'Vipassana and Anapanasatii' techniques, Vipassana being watching the thoughts rise and fall and Anapanasati being you notice the thought and gently and relaxed return to the breath.

Hi J0rrit,

Much of the confusion around this issue arises from the confusion that Vipassana is a practice and the reality is that it is a fruit of mindfulness practice. Now many Meditation techniques are taught under the label of "Vipassana Meditation" today, so it is no surprise that this confusion perpetuates. The origin of it is in the Abhidharma, a collection of analyses and commentaries written some hundreds of years after the Buddha died.

The Buddha rarely used the word Vipassana and, most importantly, when telling people to meditate he would say "go do jhanna" - Jhanna as you probably know is an outcome of development of the mental qualities of Shamatha (calm) and specifically the higher reaches of Samadhi (concentration).

If you read the Anapanasati sutta for yourself you will see that it goes way beyond just mindfulness of breathing.

Quote
In this community of monks there are monks who remain devoted to mindfulness of in-&-out breathing.

"Mindfulness of in-&-out breathing, when developed & pursued, is of great fruit, of great benefit. Mindfulness of in-&-out breathing, when developed & pursued, brings the four frames of reference to their culmination. The four frames of reference, when developed & pursued, bring the seven factors for awakening to their culmination. The seven factors for awakening, when developed & pursued, bring clear knowing & release to their culmination.

The four frames of reference are body, feelings, mind and mental qualities. The Anapanasati sutta starts from simple mindfulness of breathing but goes on to explain how this is deepened into a full meditative path using the four frames and the seven factors of awakening (mindfulness, analysis of qualities, persistence, rapture, serenity, concentration and equanimity) leading to " release and clear knowing". Each of the four frames is taken as an object of Meditation and developed to culmination with each of the seven factors.

There is within this one short text a very full understanding of the path if it is read and understood. There are also important insights buried in the text as to how to proceed:

Quote
On whatever occasion the monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world, on that occasion his mindfulness is steady & without lapse. When his mindfulness is steady & without lapse, then mindfulness as a factor for awakening becomes aroused. He develops it, and for him it goes to the culmination of its development.

I have highlighted in bold a phrase much overlooked, "his mindfulness is steady & without relapse" - in other words the requisite mindfulness for any deeper progress on the path is the strong development of mindfulness that does not wander, does not "relapse".

Later stages in this progressive path are dependent on earlier stages, though I think it is also clear it is not entirely or always the case - there are other texts that describe progression through the frames and factors in different ways for different individuals.

The main point I derive from this text is that before anything approaching meaningful arising of insight (Vipassana) as a quality that can be cultivated fully, there must be the development of the ability to keep mindfulness strong and unwavering and that the stage this is achieved at is mindfulness of bodily sensations created by the process of breathing. Why breathing? - because it is constantly there, constantly changing and developing mindfulness of it calms both body and mind - as the text makes clear. It is the very foundation of the practice and all progress on the path, and unfortunately, in my experience far too many people do not establish this foundation - whether that be due to misunderstanding, poor teaching or lack of persistence.

Kindly,

Matthew

All quotes from:

Anapanasati Sutta: Mindfulness of Breathing" (MN 118), translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu. Access to Insight (Legacy Edition), 30 November 2013, http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.118.than.html
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 08:10:30 PM by Matthew »
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Re: Main Vipassana Objects
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2014, 04:38:53 AM »
Quote
But this is not anapana, right? With anapanasati you don't watch the thoughts to the end, till they fall, but you notice them, relax the tension and return to the breath. What is the best way Matthew? I am still confused about the different 'Vipassana and Anapanasatii' techniques, Vipassana being watching the thoughts rise and fall and Anapanasati being you notice the thought and gently and relaxed return to the breath.

This is a confusion every beginner gets.... You are confused between thought and a thought trail. Thought trail is multiple thoughts that arise because of the craving... A single thought is a mental image... when we attach to this thought other images related to the thought from the memory arises in series and mind uses its perception to evaluate these images and it becomes a thought trail. If you are not able to single our a thought then watching the thought trail to the end doesnt make sense because as soon as we are aware of the thought trail it brakes up and ends. Faster one becomes aware of the thought trail the better... along with bringing back the awareness to breath it is necessary to learn how can one end thought trails faster and faster.

As for anapana and vipassana, as Matthew said these are not two different technique. they dont contradict one another at any stage of the path. They go hand in hand. We have made a division for our convenience.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 04:42:22 AM by siddharthgode »

J0rrit

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Re: Main Vipassana Objects
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2014, 09:40:03 AM »
Quote
But this is not anapana, right? With anapanasati you don't watch the thoughts to the end, till they fall, but you notice them, relax the tension and return to the breath. What is the best way Matthew? I am still confused about the different 'Vipassana and Anapanasatii' techniques, Vipassana being watching the thoughts rise and fall and Anapanasati being you notice the thought and gently and relaxed return to the breath.

This is a confusion every beginner gets.... You are confused between thought and a thought trail. Thought trail is multiple thoughts that arise because of the craving... A single thought is a mental image... when we attach to this thought other images related to the thought from the memory arises in series and mind uses its perception to evaluate these images and it becomes a thought trail. If you are not able to single our a thought then watching the thought trail to the end doesnt make sense because as soon as we are aware of the thought trail it brakes up and ends. Faster one becomes aware of the thought trail the better... along with bringing back the awareness to breath it is necessary to learn how can one end thought trails faster and faster.

As for anapana and vipassana, as Matthew said these are not two different technique. they dont contradict one another at any stage of the path. They go hand in hand. We have made a division for our convenience.

Thank you for this answer. But I can do two things: Watching/following a single thought till it disappears for the fully 100% in the corners of my awareness, or I see it, it disappears for the most and I go back to the breath (automatically, because the thought doesn't have attraction/attachment anymore), or I follow it really to the END in the corners of my awareness ? 

Matthew

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Re: Main Vipassana Objects
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2014, 10:44:46 AM »
J0rrit,

How long can you follow the breath without other thoughts intruding?

Matthew
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J0rrit

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Re: Main Vipassana Objects
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2014, 01:28:48 PM »
J0rrit,

How long can you follow the breath without other thoughts intruding?

Matthew

I can't tell....Thoughts intrude but I won't really lose sight of the breath at the moment, their attachment is gone before I know it....

Still don't have a clear answer on this?
« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 01:32:11 PM by J0rrit »

Re: Main Vipassana Objects
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2014, 12:47:40 PM »
I think what you mean is ending a thought trail in mind creates resistance and stress in mind so you let it slowly think a little on the topic but with awareness till it loses its energy.

If this is it then try to release stress using vipassana and better end the thought asap. If you cant do that then doesnt matter... it would be just ignoring the matter of thought for time being and meditating.

J0rrit

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Re: Main Vipassana Objects
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2014, 03:45:07 PM »
But can someone give me an answer: follow the thought till they fall completely or when you become aware (and 'out' of them) of them return to the breath immediately (after relaxing)?

Re: Main Vipassana Objects
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2014, 05:03:45 PM »
dont follow. Let it die out.

J0rrit

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Re: Main Vipassana Objects
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2014, 05:07:14 PM »
dont follow. Let it die out.

ok, but in what is called 'Vipassana' practice, you need to follow the thought till it terminates completely, before going back to the breath. What is the advantage of this ? Seeing impermanence ?

And with follow I mean you watch it terminate or die out but not get involved with it

Re: Main Vipassana Objects
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2014, 06:49:58 AM »
Quote
but in what is called 'Vipassana' practice, you need to follow the thought till it terminates completely

Where have you read this? This is not part of teaching.

Please dont enter the fields of mind without their link with sensations. Watching thoughts without being mindful of the sensations each thought produces is not the practice. Its just waste of time. Work with body first, Clear all the fog that is blocking to see the link between mind and body. Then enter the field of mind.

Quote
“One practices as follows:
“The first breath: ‘Breathing in a long breath, I know I am breathing in a long breath. Breathing out a long breath, I know I am breathing out a long breath.’
“The second breath: ‘Breathing in a short breath, I know I am breathing in a short breath. Breathing out a short breath, I know I am breathing out a short breath.’
“These two breaths enable you to cut through forgetfulness and unnecessary thinking, at the same time giving rise to mindfulness and enabling you to encounter life in the present moment. Forgetfulness is the absence of mindfulness. Breathing with awareness enables us to return to ourselves and to life.
“The third breath: ‘Breathing in, I am aware of my whole body. Breathing out, I am aware of my whole body.’
“This breath enables you to contemplate the body and be in direct contact with your own body. Awareness of the whole body and awareness of every part of the body allows you to see the wondrous presence of your body and the process of birth and death unfolding in your body.
“The fourth breath: ‘I am breathing in and making my whole body calm and at peace. I am breathing out and making my whole body calm and at peace.’
“This breath helps you realize calmness and peace in the body and arrive at a state in which mind, body, and breath are one harmonious reality.
“The fifth breath: ‘I am breathing in and feeling joyful. I am breathing out and feeling joyful.’
“The sixth breath: ‘I am breathing in and feeling happy. I am breathing out and feeling happy.’
“With these two breaths, you cross into the domain of feelings. These two breaths create peace and joy that can nourish mind and body. Thanks to the cessation of dispersion and forgetfulness, you return to yourself, aware of the present moment. Happiness and joy arise within you.
“You dwell in the wonders of life, able to taste the peace and joy mindfulness brings. Thanks to this encounter with the wonders of life, you are able to transform neutral feelings into pleasant feelings. These two breaths thus lead to pleasant feelings.
“The seventh breath: ‘I am breathing in and am aware of the activities of the mind in me. I am breathing out and am aware of the activities of the mind in me.’
“The eighth breath: ‘I am breathing in and making the activities of the mind in me calm and at peace. I am breathing out and making the activities of the mind in me calm and at peace.’
“These two breaths enable you to look deeply at all the feelings arising within you, whether they are pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral, and enable you to make those feelings calm and at peace. The ‘activities of the mind’ mean, in this case, the feelings. When you are aware of your feelings and can see deeply into their roots and nature, you can control them and make them calm and at peace, even though they may be unpleasant thoughts which arise from desire, anger, and jealousy.
“The ninth breath: ‘I am breathing in and am aware of my mind. I am breathing out and am aware of my mind.’
“The tenth breath: ‘I am breathing in and making my mind happy and at peace. I am breathing out and making my mind happy and at
peace.’
“The eleventh breath: ‘I am breathing in and concentrating my mind. I am breathing out and concentrating my mind.’
“The twelfth breath: ‘I am breathing in and liberating my mind. I am breathing out and liberating my mind.’
“With these four breaths you cross into the third domain, which is the mind. The ninth breath enables you to recognize all the states of the mind, such as perceptions, thinking, discrimination, happiness, sadness, and doubt. You observe and recognize these states in order to see deeply into the mind’s activities. When the mind’s activities are observed and recognized, you are able to concentrate your mind, making it quiet and at peace. This is brought about by the tenth and eleventh breaths. The twelfth breath enables you to release all obstacles of the mind. Thanks to illuminating your mind, you can see the roots of all mental formations, and thus overcome all obstacles.
“The thirteenth breath: ‘I am breathing in and observing the impermanent nature of all dharmas. I am breathing out and observing the impermanent nature of all dharmas.’
“The fourteenth breath: ‘I am breathing in and observing the fading of all dharmas. I am breathing out and observing the fading of all dharmas.’
“The fifteenth breath: ‘I am breathing in and contemplating liberation. I am breathing out and contemplating liberation.’
“The sixteenth breath: ‘I am breathing in and contemplating letting go. I am breathing out and contemplating letting go.’
“With these four breaths, the practitioner passes into the domain of objects of the mind, and concentrates the mind in order to observe the true nature of all dharmas. First is the observation of the impermanent nature of all dharmas. Because all dharmas are impermanent, they must all fade. When you clearly understand the impermanent and fading nature of all dharmas, you are no longer bound by the endless cycle of birth and death. Thanks to that, you can let go and attain liberation. Letting go does not mean to disdain or run away from life. Letting go means letting go of craving and clinging so you do not suffer from the endless cycle of birth and death to which all dharmas are subject. Once you have let go and attained liberation, you can live in peace and joy in the very midst of life. There is no longer anything which can bind you.”

Here you can see that first four breaths are used to realize calmness and peace in the body and arrive at a state in which mind, body, and breath are one harmonious reality.
The breath after 4th enters the field of mind. After both mind and body are harmonious. Or after one is able to see the inter relation between the two. Untill then whatever arises in the mind one has to ignore...

 

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