Author Topic: Stream enterer, once returner etc  (Read 11288 times)

Vixsesh

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Stream enterer, once returner etc
« on: July 28, 2012, 09:42:33 AM »
How does one know if they are a steeam wmterer or once retuner etc yet?

Billymac629

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Re: Stream enterer, once returner etc
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2012, 07:17:48 PM »
It's supposed to be by the number of fetters that you have eradicated
Nothing in this world is to be clung to as I, me, or mine...

Masauwu

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Re: Stream enterer, once returner etc
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2012, 07:51:51 AM »
There`s a table on Wikipedia showing the stages and which fetters are abandoned with each stage.
The summer river:
although there is a bridge, my horse
goes through the water.

Vixsesh

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Re: Stream enterer, once returner etc
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2012, 01:04:58 PM »
Thanks for the information Masauwu.

redalert

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Re: Stream enterer, once returner etc
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2012, 04:34:34 PM »
hi Vixsesh,
 
     If I asked you to put your hand into a burning fire, most likely you would say NO! This is probably because you have been burnt before and have aquired the wisdom which knows this will cause me to suffer, and therefore you refrain from this action. You don't have to practice this or keep reminding youself of this, this aquired wisdom is like a brick wall that you don't go through.

     For each of the supramundane paths there are  bricks of wisdom(known as insight knowledges), most of us who have began meditating seriously have had a moment of awakening. A moment where you realise my actions are causing me to suffer and you wish to bring this suffering to an end. We then start our search for a path to end our suffering. It doesn't matter where we look this tradition or that tradition this technique or that technique, whats important is that  we find that first brick of wisdom. This first brick of wisdom instills a faith or belief or trust that we have found the path. From this moment on you are walking on the Noble 8-fold path.

     This sound great and it is, but you are still not safe you may still find yourself reborn in the lower realms. You are only safe from rebirth in these realms when you have found  all the bricks of wisdom on the first path leading to stream enterer. At this point a frution experience is meant to occur and this experience will give you a "glimpse" of Nibbana. This glimpse "theoretically" gives the meditator a look at what lies beyond(another dimension), and gives the meditator a new understanding of dependent origination and the four noble truths, as it pertains to mind and body.

      This new understanding is equivalent to the wisdom you have previously gained in regards to the hand in the burning fire, but powerful enough to keep you from ever taking action that will lead to rebirth in the lower realms of existance. Your first brick wall is completed, you have permanently cut the fetters of identity view, skeptical doubt, and clinging to rites and rituals, you are a stream enterer the first and lowest stage of the noble ones. You are also incapable of six types of defilements envy, jealousy, hypocrisy, fraud, denigration, and domineering. You are also incapable of commiting these six actions murdering your mother father or an arahant , maliciously injuring the buddha to the point of drawing blood, successfully creating a schism in the monastic community, and choosing anyone other than a buddha as ones formost teacher. Your lust, hatred, and delusion have been permanently weakened you have at most seven rebirths until attainment of Nibbana.

      The stream enterer may continue to work in this lifetime, and the buddha reccomended to keep up the practice, but the dam has been cracked and no matter what the dam will break.  The remaining paths are the same picking up the bricks and building the walls, and the stream enterer may reach higher paths and may become an arahant in this lifetime. By reviewing the remaining fetters one is meant to accertain their stage on the path.

      I also believe you can pick up all the remaining bricks and go directly to arahantship from stream enterer as in the case of ananda the buddhas attendent.

     Metta :)       

     

     

Vivek

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Re: Stream enterer, once returner etc
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2012, 05:54:25 PM »
Great explanation, Redalert. That was very informative.
Let's go beyond this illusion, shall we?

Vixsesh

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Re: Stream enterer, once returner etc
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2012, 03:58:40 PM »
Thanks redalert

Stefan

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Re: Stream enterer, once returner etc
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2012, 07:29:31 PM »
thanks redalert, that was good reading and painted an understandable picture ... maybe the brick picture is slightly confusing since what is happening has more similarity to removing bricks from the wall that builds our prison of ignorance.

Metta to you, too  :)
anicca

redalert

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Re: Stream enterer, once returner etc
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2012, 08:51:28 PM »
       Hey stefan,

       I was a bricklayer for 7 yrs. I can't stop thinking of bricks. ;D
   
       In this story think of them as supramundane bricks.

       be happy :)

Blue

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Re: Stream enterer, once returner etc
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2012, 10:12:35 PM »
There are stages that people universally goes through as they progress in Dhamma.  Here is a link to them:

http://www.vipassanadhura.com/sixteen.html

Don't get overwhelmed by all the information, and don't feel the urgent need to find out where you are. 

That being said there are some signs that can really help you figure out where you are.

For example
If you have ever had a really amazing event happen in your meditation, there is a good chance that is stage 5 on the list. 

After that stage, comes several very difficult stages.  Stages 6-8

After that comes a very easy going stage, and after that is Nirvana stage :)

Mal

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Re: Stream enterer, once returner etc
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2012, 12:05:13 PM »
If you doubt rebirth can you become a stream enterer?

Doubt is a form suffering, so you certainly need to get rid of it!

On rebirth, soul, 11 dimensional universes, and such contentious issues, I try to generate "don't know mind", a suspension of belief - neither believing nor disbelieving.

Does it matter which view is correct?

In one sutta a monk asked the Buddha if the view that there is a soul, or not, is correct. The Buddha just remained silent. That seems to support my approach.?



Stefan

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Re: Stream enterer, once returner etc
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2012, 03:03:18 PM »


neither believing nor disbelieving


We are meditating to find out the truth, aren't we? We are not satisfied any more by simply (dis)believing anything, we want to see for ourselves.
So, in my opinion, neither believing nor disbelieving is the only possible approach for meditators.



In one sutta a monk asked the Buddha if the view that there is a soul, or not, is correct. The Buddha just remained silent.


 :)
Disciple: "Guruji, is there a soul, or is there no soul?"
Guru: "Yes."
anicca