Stumbling along

[DarkNightOfNoSoul]

Hi all, I'd like to ask the advice of the experienced practitioners here about some difficulties I've had learning vipassana meditation. I apologise in advance for yet another "wall of words" - I feel that so far I have only taken from this forum, with little to give back as yet. But the concerns I'm going to talk about are genuine and have weighed on my mind for a long time. And you never know, maybe my story will strike a chord for others who are having similar problems.

I started studying Buddhism via books in 2006 after I hit a low point in my life, then a friend mentioned the Goenka retreat. Since then I've attended four of these courses, the most recent in January this year. But I still classify myself as a vipassana novice.

I tend to be cynical and skeptical; I reject mainstream religious teachings and most new-age nonsense (e.g., "The Secret"). However, my first retreat was an eye-opener and I had experiences (both pleasant and unpleasant) that were novel and intriguing. I was also impressed by the apparently genuine nature of Goenka's organisation, and found myself embracing the logic and wisdom behind the Buddhist teachings - it seemed to me the first real wisdom that I had ever heard. I especially appreciated that although Goenka talked about the metaphysical aspects of Buddhism (e.g., rebirth, kamma), he encouraged retreat attendees to "leave it aside" if they couldn't accept such things on faith. On an intellectual level, I ended up fairly convinced that vipassana meditation was a technique that at least promoted psychological well-being, if nothing else.

Meditation issues: After the first retreat I was determined to maintain a daily practice, yet found it extremely difficult (like so many others, it seems). Currently I'm sitting evenings only, and have been doing so for about six months now, but already feel myself beginning to falter. My problems seem to revolve around doubts as to whether I'm actually meditating "properly", and if so, why I haven't experienced the positive changes in my life that Goenkaji speaks of! I usually start with anapana until my mind quietens down a bit, then I work on vipassana body-scanning as Goenka instructed, finishing up with metta bhavana. A fair amount of mind-wandering often occurs, but I'm generally able to bring my attention gently back to the body without irritation. I usually feel subtle sensations (with some "hazy" areas). In fact, I'm aware of sensations a lot of the time when I'm not meditating - seems funny now that I never noticed them before the first retreat! I don't often experience "gross" sensations in my daily practice, which makes me wonder if I'm not doing any work on my sankharas of aversion outside retreats. In addition, the body-scanning has become very automatic (another forum member has mentioned this), and it is easy to drift off and think of other things while the scanning "just happens" all by itself. Basically, I'm full of doubts, and suspect that I'm not really meditating properly at all; just sitting around daydreaming.

This neuroticism is further fed by the fact that I don't seem to have experienced any noticeable benefits (e.g., less emotional reactivity, more happiness). What does seem to have happened is a profound shift in values and lifestyle - I have no idea whether this is a subconscious process, or simply a result of reading about Buddhism. I used to be a bit of a party animal and a big drinker (borderline alcoholic), also dabbling in recreational drugs. I was an "experience junky" (wanted to do anything and everything); had loads of mates and a full-on social life. But a year after the first retreat, I astounded myself by giving up drinking completely, along with a lot of other activities and plans (losing many friends in the process). Following my third retreat in 2009 I just stayed vegetarian, and even started avoiding dating. To me it seems that this all just happened naturally, but probably there was conscious intention too of trying to maintain some of the precepts outside of retreats.

Negative experiences: My view of the world changed, little by little. I began to think that most of our normal ideals and values are meaningless and worthless, and I gradually lost interest in much of "popular culture" and the seemingly pointless things people do to keep themselves stimulated. I could hardly bare to watch TV any more, and became quite sensitive to the repeated portrayal of aggression and violence as "entertainment". Normal, everyday life started to seem completely crazy to me - everyone running around so busy trying to pleasure themselves, terrified of anything unpleasant, thinking they can attain happiness by controlling absolutely everything in their life (and buying loads of shiny new things). I started to feel like an "alien" or outsider. I started feeling grumpy and irritated, and I sometimes felt contempt for the human race rather than compassion. It occurred to me that maybe I was the one who was crazy - and even if some of the things I was experiencing were simply the truth of dukkha, I had none of the equanimity, peace, calmness, etc that meditation is supposed to bring. Eventually I was diagnosed with major depressive disorder, and for about 18 months I had to pop fluoxetine to keep me going. The depression passed, but there was no joy in its place.

Obviously I've read a bit about the "dark night" experience in vipassana practice (which our friend G. doesn't warn us about!), yet I now realise that with my patchy practice I've barely advanced on the path, so this is not what's going on. Besides, many of the comments from experienced meditators on this forum go straight over my head!

Questions: What am I doing wrong?! Is there, in fact, a "correct" way to meditate? Why have I experienced only negative results so far? Do I need to maintain a continuous, intense daily practice for a year or two before I start to experience anything positive? Should I experiment with alternative meditation techniques?

Any and all comments welcome!

Thanks!

[Andrew]

Ok, DNONS, despite being rule out in the first line of your OP, I'll give you my technique of getting through this 'desert of the real'

 It's deceptively simple;

You are allowed to feel happy without a reason.

I could go on, but i would rather you react/respond. either to what I said, or my excessive use of formatting. (I just had to give them a go)

[Masauwu]

What you listed as negative experiences, i don`t see them as negative at all. The world as it is right now really is disappointing and depressing once you open your eyes to reality. That is what our old conditioned mind makes of it. I`m also a novice and experience most of what you described, including doubt about myself not practicing it correctly since the results don`t meet the expectations.

I had none of the equanimity, peace, calmness, etc that meditation is supposed to bring

I suggest you try shamatha for a while; it`s basically the anapana taught at the courses but with the sensations of the breath observed not just at the nose. While i haven`t been a very diligent practitioner, for the little i`ve done this practice it has brought calm into my everyday life. Also cultivating mindfulness in everyday life helps a lot cutting down the proliferation of discursive thinking that creates a lot of tension in our minds.

If i have a "bad" meditation session i take comfort in the words a friend once told me: "Steel yourself with the idea that there is never a bad meditation session. There may be sessions where you thought you didn't get accomplished as much as you may have intended to, but each session is a win when you prevail over the mind's pre-conditioned negativity and prevail despite its urgings that you quit."

When you have time listen to this talk from Ayya Khema, it helps understand why it`s important to train the mind and what are some subtleties of this process.
Why Meditate ~ 4 Kinds of Happiness ~ Ayya Khema

[Vivek]

Hello Dark Night,

 Let me share some of my thoughts on what you have written.

Currently I'm sitting evenings only, and have been doing so for about six months now, but already feel myself beginning to falter...

Not sure how exactly you are faltering. Maintaining practice for six months is not a small thing. It is indeed laudable. Are you setting too high standards for yourself, like you should be sitting for hours, be able to focus continuously etc? If so, such things are going to put you in trouble. Relax, let go, you are doing good.

My problems seem to revolve around doubts as to whether I'm actually meditating "properly"...

Yes, you are correct. This is the main problem. You need to relax and let go. You are doing good.

...and if so, why I haven't experienced the positive changes in my life that Goenkaji speaks of!

Two things:
1. What Goenkaji talks about in his talks as benefits are only general examples. It is NOT necessary that everyone should get ALL benefits, and also not necessary that everyone should get benefits on similar time periods. There are always individual variations.
2. In your post, you have actually listed out many benefits, but somehow you seem to be discounting them, on the ground that they are not what you are actually looking for. You need to let go of your assumptions and expectations, and focus on the here and now.

I usually start with anapana until my mind quietens down a bit, then I work on vipassana body-scanning as Goenka instructed, finishing up with metta bhavana.

This is a good way. You are doing it correctly.

A fair amount of mind-wandering often occurs, but I'm generally able to bring my attention gently back to the body without irritation.

Mind-wandering is natural. Even advanced meditatiors experience this around 80% of the time.

I usually feel subtle sensations (with some "hazy" areas).

Pass through areas of subtle sensations and hazy areas separately. Wherever you find hazy, misty or blank areas, spent more time there, keeping your mind equanimous. Then, continue being aware of the whole body subtle sensations. Then, again pass awareness through hazy/misty/blank areas seperately. Cycle through like this continuously. Eventually, the blank areas will start opening up.

In fact, I'm aware of sensations a lot of the time when I'm not meditating...

Excellent!!! Continue doing this more often. This is practice off-cushion.

In addition, the body-scanning has become very automatic...

Do not allow the process to become automatic. Whenever you catch yourself being on automatic mode, immediately change the way you are moving your awareness through the body.

...and suspect that I'm not really meditating properly at all; just sitting around daydreaming.

No, you are not. You are doing great, but you are discounting lot of the things you are doing right, by comparing with an ideal, and by holding too high expectations. Relax, let go, observe.

What does seem to have happened is a profound shift in values and lifestyle - I have no idea whether this is a subconscious process, or simply a result of reading about Buddhism. I used to be a bit of a party animal and a big drinker (borderline alcoholic), also dabbling in recreational drugs. I was an "experience junky" (wanted to do anything and everything); had loads of mates and a full-on social life. But a year after the first retreat, I astounded myself by giving up drinking completely, along with a lot of other activities and plans (losing many friends in the process). Following my third retreat in 2009 I just stayed vegetarian, and even started avoiding dating.

You have mentioned so many positive changes here, but you seem to be disparaging them and I also suspect you have ignored so many other little benefits just because you don't consider them benefits at all and so, have not even mentioned them in your post. 

What am I doing wrong?!

Nothing. You are mostly doing things right. You just have to relax and let go of thinking this whole meditative path like reaching a goal or something, by doing everything "correctly".

Is there, in fact, a "correct" way to meditate?

I don't think there is a THE RIGHT way to meditate. All instructions are guidelines to help you be fully present and realise the Three Characteristics (impermanence etc). Moreover, from what you have written, you are doing pretty OK.

Why have I experienced only negative results so far?

And by asking that, you have slighted all the positive benefits you have received so far. Some negative effects can occur when meditation is continued, but they are also impermanent. So, you should use your faculty of equanimity to deal with them too. They will also eventually pass away. 

Do I need to maintain a continuous, intense daily practice for a year or two before I start to experience anything positive?

Drop the desire to experience positive things, attain perfection etc. All desires are hindrances to the path. Be present, observe all sensations, realize the Three Characteristics.

 

[CameronJ]

Nice post, Vivek.

DNONS,

The more awareness we bring to our experience, the more in touch we are with our habitual tendencies, including the ones we may regard as less savory.  To avoid sinking into self-contempt, the only recourse is to be forgiving towards yourself, which goes hand-in-hand with being forgiving towards others.  The way you describe your view of the world, sometimes feeling contempt for the human race, it looks like there's some room for more forgiveness.  I can completely identify with this myself, as irritation occurs a lot more than I'd like!  If life is a stage for the exhaustion of bad karma though, it's bound to be an outright comedy of errors on occasion.

Another angle...sometimes, if sensitivity is overdeveloped in relation to equanimity, things can be overwhelming, and it might be advantageous to take a step back and regroup, perhaps even by indulging a little to reacknowledge our connection to the indulgent world at large.   

[Andrew]

Hi Cameron,
Though not my thread, I needed to hear that advice today. funny how it works like that. cheers. And I total agree that Vivek nailed that advice, it struck me too that there was alot of positives in Dark Nights post, i can relate to the excessive expectations and missing the subtle benefits.

[CameronJ]

Glad to hear it, Andrew.  Cheers.

[DarkNightOfNoSoul]

Ok, DNONS, despite being rule out in the first line of your OP, I'll give you my technique of getting through this 'desert of the real'

 It's deceptively simple;

You are allowed to feel happy without a reason.

I could go on, but i would rather you react/respond. either to what I said, or my excessive use of formatting. (I just had to give them a go)

Thanks Andrew, your comment really struck a chord (as well as half-blinding me ), as it wasn't all that long ago that this same insight came to me. I felt superb, as if a huge weight had been lifted. This lasted for an entire afternoon lol. Unfortunately, although there is conscious understanding, it seems that the unconscious part of my mind still reacts with anxiety and depression when "things go wrong" and is only cheerful when "things go right". Occasionally I can step back from whatever problems I'm having and laugh at my reaction to them, but more typically I become part of them.

[DarkNightOfNoSoul]

What you listed as negative experiences, i don`t see them as negative at all. The world as it is right now really is disappointing and depressing once you open your eyes to reality...

I suggest you try shamatha for a while; it`s basically the anapana taught at the courses but with the sensations of the breath observed not just at the nose.

I will try that - actually sometimes I seem to do something like that naturally when I'm finding anapana difficult, I just try and practice "whole body awareness", where I notice the sensations occurring through my body all at the same time, plus any other sensory experiences such as sounds.

If i have a "bad" meditation session i take comfort in the words a friend once told me: "Steel yourself with the idea that there is never a bad meditation session. There may be sessions where you thought you didn't get accomplished as much as you may have intended to, but each session is a win when you prevail over the mind's pre-conditioned negativity and prevail despite its urgings that you quit."

These are very helpful words, thank you Masauwu.

When you have time listen to this talk from Ayya Khema, it helps understand why it`s important to train the mind and what are some subtleties of this process.
Why Meditate ~ 4 Kinds of Happiness ~ Ayya Khema

Thanks heaps, I plan to watch it this weekend.

[Andrew]

Ok, DNONS, despite being rule out in the first line of your OP, I'll give you my technique of getting through this 'desert of the real'

 It's deceptively simple;

You are allowed to feel happy without a reason.

I could go on, but i would rather you react/respond. either to what I said, or my excessive use of formatting. (I just had to give them a go)

Thanks Andrew, your comment really struck a chord (as well as half-blinding me ), as it wasn't all that long ago that this same insight came to me. I felt superb, as if a huge weight had been lifted. This lasted for an entire afternoon lol.

I was thinking of supplying 3d glasses with that post, sorry about the eye sight.

Unfortunately, although there is conscious understanding, it seems that the unconscious part of my mind still reacts with anxiety and depression when "things go wrong" and is only cheerful when "things go right"..

Of course it does. It is unfortunate for the entire human race (minus those who have 'gone beyond')

Occasionally I can step back from whatever problems I'm having and laugh at my reaction to them, but more typically I become part of them

Perhaps make occasionally into as often as you darn well can!

that is basically the whole practice right there. Mental space created to remember that there is a better way than this. Such a way is marked by humour and happiness, gentleness and kindness.

Try to remember that afternoon as much as you can, catch whatever small giggles and wry smiles as your powers allow, in time your mind will start to incline towards these moments like a flower to the sun. Natural selection of thoughts will kick in. Your mind will have a viable option. At the moment the only way it feels it can be you, is through stress and identification with it. give it an option. Laugh, giggle, grin, or just don't frown as much, after a while of doing this your baseline will go from -20 (misery and depression on tap) to -5 (mildly flat feeling but within spitting distance of actually feeling happy for a change), hopefully you get the picture.

You are not only allowed to feel happy, you are allowed to actively find ways to maximise whatever pleasantness is there each moment in the hope of sparking a bit more.

Also identifying with the dark night can be a hindrance to getting out of it,it's why we get in it to start with. We think we are these stressful feelings. That they are me etc etc.
 

[Andrew]

Something I posted last year that is relevant, not perfect, but relevant none the less...

Innate in all of us are the factors of enlightenment. We choose to water them, we don't put them there.

Mindfulness

Investigation of truth

Energy

Happiness

Relaxation

Concentration

Equanimity.


When we are aware of our sensate experience (mindful) we detect pleasurable aspects of it (happiness-for me it is triggered by the touch of the air on the skin). When something disturbs us we investigate why and what has dragged us away from the pleasant feelings (investigation of truth), we find out as quickly as possible and do what we can (energy) to get back to the sense of happiness. As we built the neural pathways that form this into a habit, when chill out (relaxation) and don't stress about stuff in life (equanimity), we become really good at being in the here and now (concentration). Do this enough and we have got our shit together (enlightenment)

As we loop this practice over and over we find happiness everywhere in every moment and every sensation.

Thats the theory anyway...hahaha

[DarkNightOfNoSoul]

Let me share some of my thoughts on what you have written...

Vivek, thanks heaps for wading through my post and putting together such a detailed and thoughtful reply. It's quite a relief to know that my approach seems to be on the right track. I do concede some of the experiences are positive in that they've opened my eyes to reality - though I do sometimes wonder if I'm just seeing the world in a distorted way because of all the things I've read and thought about Buddhism, rather than these changes being due to my practice.

I take your other points too, especially trying to bring mindfulness into everyday life. Some days I do pretty well at this, other days I seem to lose the "knack" and just get wrapped up in what's happening and lose my detachment. Also, desire for positive experiences is definitely a hindrance for me; these experiences do come on rare occasions when I hit bottom and just kind of let go of everything. It would be good to be able to let go without crashing.

Re body scanning, I think moving through the hazy areas slowly will help stop it being so automatic. Lately I'm also getting "gross sensations" in the form of really powerful itching and tickling around the face. That sure wakes me up.

Lots to think about. Or maybe less thinking and more doing needed. Thanks again.

[DarkNightOfNoSoul]

To avoid sinking into self-contempt, the only recourse is to be forgiving towards yourself, which goes hand-in-hand with being forgiving towards others... 

Great point Cameron, the two definitely seem to go hand in hand. I'm contemptuous of my own weaknesses, and of others showing the same weaknesses.

If life is a stage for the exhaustion of bad karma though, it's bound to be an outright comedy of errors on occasion.

I really like this statement, it immediately makes me feel that I can just relax, step back and let myself laugh at my own human frailties - and allow others to have theirs without judging.

Another angle...sometimes, if sensitivity is overdeveloped in relation to equanimity, things can be overwhelming, and it might be advantageous to take a step back and regroup, perhaps even by indulging a little to reacknowledge our connection to the indulgent world at large.   

Righto, I'm off to get pissed! 

[charon]

Hi

This is my first post, but have been lurking and listening to the great advice for quite a while.

I’m far from an expert, but I felt compelled to reply as I am often in a similar place to you – only I would tend to give up practising for a bit, so well done for sticking it out!

As well as the great advice above, and to echo some of it, I would maybe work on cultivating some tranquillity with breath mediation. I’m very analytically minded  (something which contributes to my periods of depression), and I’ve found the letting go process involved in breath mediation helps to counter this both on and off the cushion. And whilst not consistent, some of my sits have led to experiences of a beautifully profound stillness which can stay with me for a long time after.

I also find watching Ajarn Bram’s youtube channel really chills me out and brings me back to earth. Whilst I don’t subscribe to some of his more metaphysical points (being pretty much secular in my views), he is easily one of the best Dharma teachers I’ve ever come across. He is also a strong advocator of smatha/vipassana being one and the same – and constantly reinforces the importance of training the mind to experience tranquillity.

Here’s a link to his youtube site:

http://www.youtube.com/user/BuddhistSocietyWA/videos

I’d have a look through the selection and see if any of the titles jump out at you.

Like the comments above, from the outside you seem to be doing much better than you think, just try not to give the negative narratives too much voice; they’ll be drowning out the positive ones wanting a bit of attention! – always easier to say than do 

Edited as put in the wrong link!

[DarkNightOfNoSoul]

This is my first post, but have been lurking and listening to the great advice for quite a while...

As well as the great advice above, and to echo some of it, I would maybe work on cultivating some tranquillity with breath mediation...

I also find watching Ajarn Bram’s youtube channel really chills me out and brings me back to earth...

Like the comments above, from the outside you seem to be doing much better than you think, just try not to give the negative narratives too much voice; they’ll be drowning out the positive ones wanting a bit of attention! – always easier to say than do 

Charon, welcome to the forum!  Thanks so much for your encouragement and empathy. I'm definitely getting the impression I need to give slightly more emphasis to samatha than vipassana for a while.

I have occasionally experienced the tranquility and stillness you speak of, but mainly on retreat and only for brief periods, maybe a few hours or so. The first time it happened was on my first retreat, and I remember being totally blown away by it and thinking wow, this is the way we are meant to experience life. But then I felt a profound sadness for the human race, kind of mourning the fact that we apparently seem to have lost this ability.

Thanks also for the link. Hope to hear more from you on this forum. 

[DarkNightOfNoSoul]

Something I posted last year that is relevant, not perfect, but relevant none the less...

Innate in all of us are the factors of enlightenment. We choose to water them, we don't put them there.

Mindfulness

Investigation of truth

Energy

Happiness

Relaxation

Concentration

Equanimity.


When we are aware of our sensate experience (mindful) we detect pleasurable aspects of it (happiness-for me it is triggered by the touch of the air on the skin). When something disturbs us we investigate why and what has dragged us away from the pleasant feelings (investigation of truth), we find out as quickly as possible and do what we can (energy) to get back to the sense of happiness. As we built the neural pathways that form this into a habit, when chill out (relaxation) and don't stress about stuff in life (equanimity), we become really good at being in the here and now (concentration). Do this enough and we have got our shit together (enlightenment)

As we loop this practice over and over we find happiness everywhere in every moment and every sensation.

Thats the theory anyway...hahaha

Nice. So much of it seems to be about calming down enough to be able to just notice the very subtle and simple pleasures of just being alive and finding happiness in that rather than looking for it in external stimulation.

[DarkNightOfNoSoul]

Try to remember that afternoon as much as you can, catch whatever small giggles and wry smiles as your powers allow, in time your mind will start to incline towards these moments like a flower to the sun. Natural selection of thoughts will kick in. Your mind will have a viable option. At the moment the only way it feels it can be you, is through stress and identification with it. give it an option. Laugh, giggle, grin, or just don't frown as much, after a while of doing this your baseline will go from -20 (misery and depression on tap) to -5 (mildly flat feeling but within spitting distance of actually feeling happy for a change), hopefully you get the picture.

Thanks Andrew. And I like the way you've appealed to my scientific world view!

You are not only allowed to feel happy, you are allowed to actively find ways to maximise whatever pleasantness is there each moment in the hope of sparking a bit more.

Just want to ask you about an example. Yesterday on the way home from uni on the bus I was feeling down after some social interactions I'd had in the afternoon (social anxiety has featured largely in my life, but that's another story). The bus was packed, I was sitting on the side that caught the full force of the sun, and the air conditioning was broken. I managed to detach to some extent and be aware of being down, of the precise reasons for it, its predictable and repeating pattern, the fact that the feelings occurring were the result of past conditioning, that they would pass, and that they were relatively unimportant anyway. I was aware that the physical discomfort of sitting in sweaty 35-degree heat could not be escaped for the next forseeable 40 minutes. For much of the time I was able to direct my attention away from the "poor me" thoughts back to sensations and breathing. Yet I wonder whether even with highly developed mindfulness skills I would be able to detect any pleasantness in that situation. Is it possible to find happiness in such situations (or let's say a really unpleasant hypothetical situation, like being tortured!)? Or is equanimity the best one can manage when only unpleasant feelings are being experienced?

Also identifying with the dark night can be a hindrance to getting out of it,it's why we get in it to start with. We think we are these stressful feelings. That they are me etc etc.

Indeed, maybe I need to change my forum name!

[Andrew]

Is it possible to find happiness in such situations (or let's say a really unpleasant hypothetical situation, like being tortured!)? Or is equanimity the best one can manage when only unpleasant feelings are being experienced?

I often think of this myself, then I realise I'm not being tortured and only what is happening right now can have any bearing on what would/could/should happen in the future.

In a situation like that (your bus trip) I would probably use a bit of imagination to reframe it; i.e. people pay good money to sit in a suana and you are getting it for free, and for a full 40 mins. 

Another little consideration I find defuses my speculation is simple to realise there is opportunity in everything to be mindful. It's not about avoiding pain, it's about eliminating the stress that we overlay it with.

I remember riding in a tro-tro (a beat up van being used as a bus) in Ghana, shoulder to shoulder with strangers, windows barely open, sweaty (and not just my own). I was loving it though, simply because I wanted t be there. I deliberately went out of my way to catch it. I had the money for a taxi, but I wanted too.

Sometimes it is the thought of there being an option that allows us the mental space to stress about it. And regarding the torture question, I hope neither of us have to find out, but if we do, can you conceive of a better way to get through it than mindfulness?

 

[charon]

Many thanks for the welcome DarkNightOfNoSoul :-)

[Matthew]

...

I tend to be cynical and skeptical; I reject mainstream religious teachings and most new-age nonsense (e.g., "The Secret"). However, my first retreat was an eye-opener and I had experiences (both pleasant and unpleasant) that were novel and intriguing.

...

Obviously I've read a bit about the "dark night" experience in vipassana practice (which our friend G. doesn't warn us about!), yet I now realise that with my patchy practice I've barely advanced on the path, so this is not what's going on. Besides, many of the comments from experienced meditators on this forum go straight over my head!

Questions: What am I doing wrong?! Is there, in fact, a "correct" way to meditate? Why have I experienced only negative results so far? Do I need to maintain a continuous, intense daily practice for a year or two before I start to experience anything positive? Should I experiment with alternative meditation techniques?

...

Everything you do becomes habit. Each thing you concentrate, place your awareness upon repeatedly, thought, sound, word, sight, deed .. each and everything becomes eventually embodied into your subconscious mind. It then ends up in the shadow government ruling the show instead of as part of the show ... or not.

Mindfulness is not about meditation. It is about being aware of what you are doing/thinking/saying/fearing/conceptualising/etc., all of the time. The meditation bit is just to amplify awareness and concentration (i.e. "practice") so you can do these things all the time: be mindful of what you are doing/thinking/saying etc, be wise in your choices, be refrained in desires, be kind and loving and accepting to whatever arises in your world.

Get your basic morality stuff in check. Relax. Be aware of what you are doing and why. And meditate to hone those skills.

What you get out of meditation depends on your state of mindfulness the moment you plomp your ass on the seat. That depends on your state of mindfulness just before you did so ...

M

[DarkNightOfNoSoul]

...only what is happening right now can have any bearing on what would/could/should happen in the future.

Yes bringing the mind back to the present moment is a constant challenge for me, thoughts are usually racing. A couple of possible issues with "living in the now" though. One example - I've been trying to be more mindful when going out for a run down at the local beach, as sometimes I come back barely remembering having been, or the natural beauty of the place, the sound of the waves, taste of the salt, etc etc. Yet on the other hand, I often have my best ideas and inspiration (for solving problems in daily life) when out running.

Another thing. Some mornings I work hard on keeping mindful of everything I'm doing - all the mundane things like having a shower, making breakfast, the sensations and thoughts occurring, etc. I read somewhere about your "fractal" mindfulness as well, I find that's awesome. But if I'm thinking only about now, I sometimes end up quite disorganised, because normally my mind would normally be busy planning all the things that need to be done!

Another little consideration I find defuses my speculation is simple to realise there is opportunity in everything to be mindful. It's not about avoiding pain, it's about eliminating the stress that we overlay it with.

I've been trying to get in the habit of turning any unfortunate situations around by thinking "awesome, everything's going to crap, a perfect opportunity to practice equanimity".

I remember riding in a tro-tro (a beat up van being used as a bus) in Ghana, shoulder to shoulder with strangers, windows barely open, sweaty (and not just my own). I was loving it though, simply because I wanted t be there. I deliberately went out of my way to catch it. I had the money for a taxi, but I wanted too.

Sometimes it is the thought of there being an option that allows us the mental space to stress about it.

Not sure I've grasped this properly - so our normal habit pattern is to react with stress to any boredom or unpleasantness in life, and stress leads us to try and control or change situations to eliminate the unwanted things. But if we resolve not to change anything about the current situation (or if we have no option), there is nowhere for stress to reside.

[DarkNightOfNoSoul]

Mindfulness is not about meditation. It is about being aware of what you are doing/thinking/saying/fearing/conceptualising/etc., all of the time. The meditation bit is just to amplify awareness and concentration (i.e. "practice") so you can do these things all the time: be mindful of what you are doing/thinking/saying etc, be wise in your choices, be refrained in desires, be kind and loving and accepting to whatever arises in your world.

Get your basic morality stuff in check. Relax. Be aware of what you are doing and why. And meditate to hone those skills.

Thanks Matthew. I'm trying to be more aware of my emotions, thoughts, speech, and actions in everyday life. I'm certainly starting to notice hypocritical and selfish thought patterns, where I judge others harshly, but make excuses for myself for the same behaviour! But negative thoughts toward self and others are a recurring issue. Sexual desires are also a damn annoyance - being single and no longer interested in relationships, I don't want to be wasting time and energy thinking about sex lol.

Regarding morality, I've worked quite hard over the last few years on ensuring my outward behaviour is guided by the basic precepts. But inward thoughts are another story.

[Andrew]

"awesome, everything's going to crap, a perfect opportunity to practice equanimity".

hahahahaha 

[Andrew]

Not sure I've grasped this properly - so our normal habit pattern is to react with stress to any boredom or unpleasantness in life, and stress leads us to try and control or change situations to eliminate the unwanted things. But if we resolve not to change anything about the current situation (or if we have no option), there is nowhere for stress to reside.

I think you grasp it better than i do judging by that sentence.

[Andrew]

I'm certainly starting to notice hypocritical and selfish thought patterns, where I judge others harshly, but make excuses for myself for the same behaviour! But negative thoughts toward self and others are a recurring issue.

this is the compounding happening right here. The fractal part of stress. We do act hypocritically , we are insincere and selfish; BUT we need to notice this without adding more judgement on top fo it, we are in a loop at that point if we do.  Gently does it.

We judge others;

We notice our judgement

We notice the hypocrisy

we judge the hypocrisy

We have stress all the same!



So what happens if we realise that our initial judgement was probably correct (others are for the most part messed up) and we stop calling it a judgement but rather an observation, and through mindfulness we have the ability to see this same quality in ourself so we have the idea of 'compassion' arise for all involved. We are in this together. So though our behaviour is only partly modified by this realisation, it is, in some small way, heading towards a new level of wisdom. There is no distinct 'me' and 'them', there is inconsistency in both.

If we see the spinning, and compounding of stress, and bring ourselves back to the room/environment, we can at the very least trim the tail off the dragon..

I'm going to go back to my evening now with the thought "awesome, everything's going to crap, a perfect opportunity to practice equanimity" , that is pure gold right there! Bring it on kids, lets see what you got...