Author Topic: Help needed to restart and settle into a daily practice  (Read 11848 times)

Cilla

Re: Help needed to restart and settle into a daily practice
« Reply #25 on: February 29, 2012, 11:37:30 AM »
I'm writing from my experience, little in terms of meditation practice but not irrelevant IMO. If you've got an issue with something i say in a post, perhaps you can deal with it then and there. If you think i'm making something up from thin air rather than from experience.

I was somewhat aware that your question wasn't meant kindly or innocently when you asked. Perhaps you could think about your intentions/motives and how noble that was?

Sometimes i draw people's attention to what others have said such as the writer jack kornfield. I think it can help to be put in touch with others who may have something helpful to say to the OP.

Maybe you're nose is out of joint because i've put a point or two more convincingly than you have. Could that be the reason you've taken this tack.

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Member
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: Help needed to restart and settle into a daily practice
« Reply #26 on: February 29, 2012, 01:03:47 PM »
I'm writing from my experience, little in terms of meditation practice but not irrelevant IMO. If you've got an issue with something i say in a post, perhaps you can deal with it then and there. If you think i'm making something up from thin air rather than from experience.

My main issue is with the sheer volume of words you write, as you admit based  on little experience of meditation. Experience of meditation is what this place is about:

...
Discussion of anything is acceptable, however, game playing with words is an obstacle and hindrance on the path of meditation and divisive of community.

In particular "mindless speculation of imponderables" and purely intellectual debates are not what this place is about - this place is a meditation practice oriented community of active meditators - not an intellectual playground for the amusement of people with a purely intellectual approach to the subject. The approach is practical, personal and experiential.
...

This is from the "introduction to who we are" thread. The approach you are taking at the moment is contradictory to this.

I was somewhat aware that your question wasn't meant kindly or innocently when you asked.

My question was not innocent but there was no lack of kindness behind it. As Vivek said the suggestion was made to bring to your notice something intended to help you on the path - and it reflected the troubles you first described in your first post and which persist to this day.

Perhaps you could think about your intentions/motives and how noble that was?

My intention was well thought out and clear. It was entirely noble. You are speculating vastly with the majority of your posts and that does not help you tread the path nor is it likely to be of great help to others. Actually the opposite is true - for you, writing intellectually about things you have no experience of is a very good way of making sure you get no experience of them. It's part of your avoidance of practice.

The intention was to remind you of the difficulties you first described, to see if you were aware you were still stuck in that place and encourage you to move forward.

...
Maybe you're nose is out of joint because i've put a point or two more convincingly than you have. Could that be the reason you've taken this tack.

I have not taken this tack because my "nose is out of joint" - I have taken it for the grounded sanity of this forum.

I was also aware of a dynamic of conflict starting to emerge where if I said X you would say Y. Maybe you took this stance because your nose was out of joint? For whatever reason it's not healthy and so better out in the open and discussed.

Matthew
« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 01:08:02 PM by Matthew »
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Cilla

Re: Help needed to restart and settle into a daily practice
« Reply #27 on: February 29, 2012, 02:46:10 PM »
I can't even bother to read all this. Your anger is obvious.

You are projecting like mad and you are the one who needs to stop it and get a grip.

In case you haven't noticed a lot more goes here questions are not strictly about meditation. There are other fields of experience that come to bear. And even so, i've been exposed to enough in my short time with meditation to be able to talk from experience.

You've got a problem Matthew and it isn't me. I'll bow out of your forum since that's what you want.

You can't dismiss intellectual activity on a forum. Communication is all intellectual and the dharma is nothing if you take away the intellectual aspect of it. Its imperative to think ABOUT  things in order to make sense of them. You can't just sit and listen, feel, look, taste and not think and expect to understand anything.

The dharma teaches that some things can only be known and understood through pure experience. I don't believe it teaches that all things can only be known and understood through experience and nothing else. Without intellectual activity, one could not teach or learn the dharma.

Vivek

  • Moderator
  • Member
    • Advaita & U Ba Khin's tradition
Re: Help needed to restart and settle into a daily practice
« Reply #28 on: February 29, 2012, 03:12:27 PM »
You are misinterpreting a lot of what has been told to you. Intellectualism is helpful to the extent that practice is strenghtened. Too much theory without sufficient practice, will not do any good. No one has asked you to go from this forum, neither is anyone trying to fight with you. Please take our suggestions in good spirit.
Let's go beyond this illusion, shall we?

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Member
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: Help needed to restart and settle into a daily practice
« Reply #29 on: February 29, 2012, 07:59:52 PM »
Cilla,

We all have our own problems. When activity on the forum is beneficial and wholesome then it works, when activity gets unbalanced it does not work. Talking about meditation as if you know it all with less than a years experienced is unbalanced.

I do have problems - and so do you. I am dealing with mine and only asking you to do the same.

It would be a shame if you ran away from the lessons to be learned and it would also be a shame as you obviously have great heart and care for people.

Kind regards,

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Member
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: Help needed to restart and settle into a daily practice
« Reply #30 on: February 29, 2012, 10:38:50 PM »
I can't even bother to read all this.
...

Honestly - can you not laugh at yourself writing this, having written over 8,000 words on the forum in six days last week?

If not then you do need to take a reality check ....
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Andrew

  • Member
    • friends tell me things, sometimes I listen.
    • Letting Go.
Re: Help needed to restart and settle into a daily practice
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2012, 01:24:04 AM »
I am merely telling it as it is.


 :-X 'As it is' doesn't generally get told, it gets lived.

Matthew & Vivek are only saying what it obvious to anyone reading what you are 'telling'; calm down and practice some mindfulness of your habit of writing massive essays, then completely not listening to others point of view. Especially the points of view of those who have taken the time to share from their meditation experience that has been learnt over many many years.

If you want to post massive essays of your complete grasp of 'how it is', get a blog (they are free at 'blogspot') and go for your life. Otherwise, start a journal somewhere online and post to it, you will find that there is plenty of tolerance of all sorts of topics when done in the spirit of 'self-discovery' in a journal.

Anyway, I know Matthew and Vivek well enough to know they have absolutely straight noses, and calm compassionate hearts. Stick around and work on the things you first came asking about (kick starting your practice). We are more than willing to be there for you and help you achieve that.

kind regards

Andrew
 
getting it done

joy

  • Member
Re: Help needed to restart and settle into a daily practice
« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2012, 08:56:14 AM »

Quote
If you want to post massive essays of your complete grasp of 'how it is', get a blog (they are free at 'blogspot') and go for your life. Otherwise, start a journal somewhere online and post to it, you will find that there is plenty of tolerance of all sorts of topics when done in the spirit of 'self-discovery' in a journal.


This comment is ordinary and unnecessary. Intention behind such advice is not clear.   
« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 09:44:07 AM by Matthew »
Joy

Alexanderjohn

Re: Help needed to restart and settle into a daily practice
« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2012, 09:44:29 AM »

We are not just a forum here, we are a sangha. An online community which is right now gathering quite a lot of momentum. Part of practicing meditation is the ability to be honest and take criticism from other members, observe the reaction you have, laugh at your reaction as it swells and fades and learn from this process as much as the advice itself. This takes practice, everyday and much effort. Reaction to criticism is an an urge and like all urges we must practice mindfulness of them before blindly reaction.

Andrew

  • Member
    • friends tell me things, sometimes I listen.
    • Letting Go.
Re: Help needed to restart and settle into a daily practice
« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2012, 02:13:43 PM »

Quote
If you want to post massive essays of your complete grasp of 'how it is', get a blog (they are free at 'blogspot') and go for your life. Otherwise, start a journal somewhere online and post to it, you will find that there is plenty of tolerance of all sorts of topics when done in the spirit of 'self-discovery' in a journal.


This comment is ordinary and unnecessary. Intention behind such advice is not clear.

Yes the first line is a bit on the sarcastic side, and sets a tone which colours the rest, though the last bit is quite genuine though. Personal journaling is a great outlet, and historically members have benefited from them. So yes, intention was mixed, thanks for pointing it out, I mean to say, without the sarcasm, there are ways of channeling the felt need to write essays and here a two suggestions;

personal blog

personal journal



getting it done

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Member
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: Help needed to restart and settle into a daily practice
« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2012, 10:45:41 AM »
By email:

Quote
Sent: Thursday, 1 March 2012 8:51 AM
Subject: Why wonders happen?

Cilla,

It can all be worked out. Wonders happen when you get a community that gels.

For this reason I hope you will not deny the forum of your strengths. Everyone has a communication style. It takes effort to achieve understanding and build community.

This is why we closed the forum to new members for nearly a year until shortly before you arrived. It worked well, though by now you may have read some horrors on the forum.

This is why I have been stressing the importance of relaxed mindfulness practice over discussion, reading and words. All that thinking behind the words. It's all limited by language - it's not reality. As a gardener you know this. You know the feel of soil and the joy of watching plants - by experience.

In the same way and until you allow yourself to touch emptiness of words, of thought - through meditation and relaxation - the words are often "fingers pointing at the moon".

Words are truly important and best chosen carefully.

Humility on the path is virtuous.

Matthew

Quote
Matthew thanks for the invitation, however, i've found another forum which is more in keeping with my needs.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

frepie

  • Member
    • Goenka and personnal
    • Looking for answers and trying to loose weight
Re: Help needed to restart and settle into a daily practice
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2012, 07:03:35 PM »
On retreat its easy to meditate and stick with the program. In normal life, self discipline is  absent.
I fully understand!
Quote
After my retreat i had hoped to try to continue with some of the daily routine that we followed on the retreat a la Goenka. I wanted to get up early, go to bed early, refrain from internet and tv. Meditate twice a day for a total of about 2.5-3 hours.
2.5 hours seems a lot, depending on your situation.
Quote
There are some really good things on tv and they are often on quite late at night.
Again, I understand. It is my situation exactly.
Quote
I just tried to give up using my computer during the week except on Sundays (which i think is a very good plan) but i failed in my first week. Once i start using the net, i keep on using it. My breaks  between work etc get longer and longer on the net. For instance today i haven't done much else since i got up. Just one simple chore and one not so quick chore but still less than an hour.
Have you been spying on me?
Quote
I think a lot of my problem is what happens in meditation for me. I think of other things i want to do and get restless. Or i get discomfort and can't stay with it. Or i get bored. My mind doesn't wander too much and i don't have any other strong emotions. Just the usual 5 hindrances. If i could be more successful at sitting for an hour, i think i would find it easier to keep doing. Before i was quite successful at sitting for half an hour but now i've sort of lost that. time just seems to drag. While i think watching the breath is a great practice, i don't find it quite as interesting as the books say it is. In fact i don't find any of the practices as interesting as people say it is. I wish i was better at mindfulness of feelings, thoughts and so on. I haven't really grasped the training there.
People who find meditation "interesting" are bound to quit.

Meditation is not meant to be entertaining. It is the observation of what you are living in the present. If it is boredom, then observe all the aspects of your boredom. Boredome is a series of physical sensations, emotions and thoughts.  Observe where you feel it in your body: how the urge to stop expresses itself? Where it is? What thoughts are accompanying them? Then return to the breath, or other bodily sensations.

I am currently also in a phase where motivation is low.  I would like to meditate at least 1 hour a day, ideally 2 hours a day but barely manage to meditate 1 hour every 2 days.

I think the worse thing you can do is feel guilty about it, which is exactly what I do...

When I attended a retreat with Jon Kabat-Zinn and Saki Santorelli, they said that we should always be full of loving kindness towards ourselves. One person said:
"Does that mean that we shouldn't meditate when we don't feel like it?"
Saki replied:
"No, that means that you should compassionately accept this desire not to meditate. But meditate nonetheless."

I hope this might help you.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 08:42:13 PM by frepie »
Meditation makes me angry...

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Member
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: Help needed to restart and settle into a daily practice
« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2012, 10:29:05 PM »
Frepie,

You're efforts are in vain - as Cilla posted by email (above) she has left. She refused to take on the point that she would not "get" meditation through intellectual discourse or thinking. It is only the relaxed cessation of thinking that allows this.

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Lokuttara

  • Member
  • Trekking the hills of dhamma
    • Vipassanamurti
    • Love cycling into the blue skies and enjoying the first touches of Spring!
Re: Help needed to restart and settle into a daily practice
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2012, 11:00:43 AM »
Why do we keep dividing things up?
"I would like things to be like this, but they are not"
"I want my meditation to be like this, but it is not"
"I want to be better at meditation but I am not"
"I want to meditate more, but I cannot"
"I find meditation difficult, but I want it to be peaceful like it says in the books"
"I want to get benefits from meditation, but instead it gives me more pain"
"I want to stop looking at the internet but I can not".

This is what we do. We make a problem out of it. [WE meaning us humans. Not any particular human from this forum, but all of us]

Compassion means allowing it to be. Being conscious of it, with your whole heart and mind. With the awareness of the sensations in this activity.

If we have an addiction to some activity, why do we make a problem out of it? Just observe it with loving kindness, "I am addicted to this activity, to the sensations that accompany it". Allow it to be. Why add this to your countless problems? And don't try to jump to the opposite, to some idea of virtuous activity. Don't try to kick-start enlightenment based on your deluded conception of it.  Do nothing, just...
Be conscious of it, with your whole heart and mind. With the awareness of the sensations when you are caught in this activity. The craving will lose it's power eventually.... give it time, patience.

Awareness dissolves all impurities. The wish for the dissolving of these impurities creates resistance. Resistance breeds more impurities.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 10:04:15 AM by Lokuttara »
"One may be surrounded by great beauty, by mountains and fields and rivers, but unless one is alive to it all one might just as well be dead." Krishnamurti

Vivek

  • Moderator
  • Member
    • Advaita & U Ba Khin's tradition
Re: Help needed to restart and settle into a daily practice
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2012, 11:32:07 AM »
Good one, Lokuttara.
Let's go beyond this illusion, shall we?

frepie

  • Member
    • Goenka and personnal
    • Looking for answers and trying to loose weight
Re: Help needed to restart and settle into a daily practice
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2012, 03:19:29 PM »
You hit the nail on the head Lokuttara. And I am full of compassion for the nail and the hammer...
Meditation makes me angry...

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
7 Replies
2783 Views
Last post April 29, 2010, 01:07:34 PM
by dhruv
11 Replies
4276 Views
Last post December 12, 2010, 05:25:12 PM
by Matthew
1 Replies
1648 Views
Last post July 26, 2011, 11:20:55 AM
by Andrew
13 Replies
3645 Views
Last post January 13, 2012, 02:32:20 AM
by ramelec
4 Replies
1694 Views
Last post November 23, 2014, 07:13:21 PM
by Middleway
7 Replies
1292 Views
Last post March 13, 2019, 09:19:49 AM
by Apkallu
1 Replies
462 Views
Last post February 03, 2020, 12:49:08 PM
by stillpointdancer