Uncomfortable energy in the body

[Flipasso]

I have some literaturall (spl? those this even exist) advice.

From Ven. Sujiva's The essentials of insight meditation practice Mahasi Sayadaw's tradition.

Handling objects in the wrong way. In the course of practice, the meditator may encounter unusual experiences that may be very fearful or blissful. In vipassana, they are taken note of mindfully and they will eventually pass away. If they persist, the next step is to ignore them and watch another Vipassana object (such as the breath). If the object(fear or bliss) continues to be dominant, one is advised to get up and do walking meditation.

He advises a bit later that people that have had mental breakdowns should seek a competent teacher for guidance, not only for the right practice but to help clear doubts that come along the way. - That's what I'm trying to do now.

[deanmw]

You can't let go of it when intellectualizing, because when you keep on thinking about it, then you keep it (in your mind) ... that's the opposite of letting go. When I let go of an emotion/thought/ body feeling/ sankhara, then normally I don't bother thinking about it any more. Indeed it would be hard to think about it since it is gone ...

That's an interesting and perhaps more insightful perspective - the thinking is the holding, rather than just disturbing the state of mind needed for release.

On the other hand, symptoms like these can occur from the radiation emitted by pylons (high voltage or also handy-pylons). Maybe you live near a pylon and start to sense it due to high concentration achieved through your meditation session?

No pylons or sub-stations nearby that I'm aware of. I've not really noticed any appreciable difference in my baseline "buzzy-ness" when I'm home or away for any length of time (on vacation for example).

It's interesting though that you suggest it be might increased sensitivity due to high concentration. Looking at it that way, I'm just becoming aware of something that is already there (internal or external). Somehow it feels better to think of it like that.

[deanmw]

From Ven. Sujiva's The essentials of insight meditation practice Mahasi Sayadaw's tradition.

Handling objects in the wrong way. In the course of practice, the meditator may encounter unusual experiences that may be very fearful or blissful. In vipassana, they are taken note of mindfully and they will eventually pass away. If they persist, the next step is to ignore them and watch another Vipassana object (such as the breath). If the object(fear or bliss) continues to be dominant, one is advised to get up and do walking meditation.

I wonder how many people are strict enough with themselves to put a stop to persistent blissful experiences!    I thought it was okay to enjoy blissful experiences for what they are, just don't get attached to them.

I wouldn't mind having those kind of problems on the cushion.

Anyway thanks for the quote. I do sometimes switch to the breath. It requires application of a little effort because the other sensations are usually dominant, but after a while I do find more concentrated and blissful states arising. Perhaps I should pursue this approach more often to see where it leads.

[Flipasso]

Perhaps I should pursue this approach more often to see where it leads.

I'm interested. Where did you learn Vipassana, from a teacher or are you a "self-taught" Vipassanaut?
It seems that you're still experimenting with the technique...

[deanmw]

I'm interested. Where did you learn Vipassana, from a teacher or are you a "self-taught" Vipassanaut?
It seems that you're still experimenting with the technique...

I am self-taught, and yes to an extent I'm still experimenting, but I'm not chopping and changing it every day. I've put together my own practice based on where I am at (energetically), and my own understanding of the principles, rather following vipassana instruction from one school or another to the letter. I don't do the Goenka body scan for example, because my entire body becomes completely wired, ringing in ears, hot prickles, the full deal, and it doesn't go away when I stop meditating. I won't be able to sleep that night, wide awake for hours, and if there's work the next day, ...well I'm just not going to go there if I have to work the next day.

From my perspective, I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that providing the thinking mind is tamed (i.e. observed if it is present, but not indulged) and the mind is concentrated on the current activity, everything becomes meditation. I read a comment on here that even when focused on the touch of breath, the experience can expand to encompass the whole body and then presumably the whole of reality. So I've stopped getting hung up too much on getting the technique exactly right.

On the other hand I am mindful that wrong technique has caused problems for people, and I would be interested to find out other peoples experience of wrong technique - knowing the wrong way might help to find the right way. Perhaps another thread...

I recall that Goenka is adamant that you must choose one technique and stick to it to the letter to give it a fair trial. Is that the general consensus - you don't get anywhere unless you follow a technique consistently to the letter?

[Matthew]

I think it is important to ground all attempts at meditation in calm attentive state. This is best achieved by focussing on the breath, gently enough that you are aware of other arisings and do not block them out (self hypnotism) but not so gentle that your mind wanders (not really meditation).

Changing technique or not sticking to the technique you are engaged in has a danger of meditation becoming another form of distraction rather than something that makes your distracted mind clearer. It is therefore more useful to stay with the same technique for some time, and certainly try and know what you will do at each sitting and then stick to doing that. If you find on a regular basis the energy that arises is overpowering then keep the sessions short (10 x 5 minutes a day is better than 1 x 50 minutes of disturbed meditation).

If it continues to disturb then it may be a question of technique or stage on the path. The first stage is calming. No body scans, no attemps at increasing awareness, just focussing on the breath and letting other things go without following them and without squeezing them out of consciousness forcefully. This stage can take a long time. Patience is one of the key qualities good meditation brings because good mleditation is invariably somewhat boring.

In the Dhamma,

Matthew

[deanmw]

Thanks Matthew, that's sound advice.

If you find on a regular basis the energy that arises is overpowering then keep the sessions short (10 x 5 minutes a day is better than 1 x 50 minutes of disturbed meditation).

I can't seem to resist longer sessions (minimum 30 minutes), even though I have a lot of energy going on. I think it's because I'm working on the assumption that somehow this energy needs to work it's way though my system - I think I got that idea from the kundalini websites - that this intelligent energy knows what it is doing and is clearing blocks on it's way.

In your experience would you say it is a good idea, assuming one can maintain equanimity with it, to tolerate a moderate amount of baseline energy in between sits (as opposed to on the cushion) on the basis that it is having a purifying effect? Or would you suggest no, cut the meditation right down to minimize any discomfort, there is no benefit to longer sessions if there is residual discomfort?

[Matthew]

Dean

I think you are handling things very well by following your intuition at this point.

In the Dhamma,

Matthew

[deanmw]

I think you are handling things very well by following your intuition at this point.

Thanks for the vote of confidence! 
I guess you're right - intuition is the key. Even if someone said no cut it to 5 minutes per day, I'd unlikely stick to it because my intuition would be saying something else...

[Flipasso]

I have some literaturall (spl? those this even exist) advice.

From Ven. Sujiva's The essentials of insight meditation practice Mahasi Sayadaw's tradition.

Handling objects in the wrong way. In the course of practice, the meditator may encounter unusual experiences that may be very fearful or blissful. In vipassana, they are taken note of mindfully and they will eventually pass away. If they persist, the next step is to ignore them and watch another Vipassana object (such as the breath). If the object(fear or bliss) continues to be dominant, one is advised to get up and do walking meditation.

He advises a bit later that people that have had mental breakdowns should seek a competent teacher for guidance, not only for the right practice but to help clear doubts that come along the way. - That's what I'm trying to do now.

He does also mention that mindfulness is never bad.
People who have problems in meditation is because of incorrect practice (even if you at some point did it correctly) hence the need for a teacher.

happiness@you.all

[Oolongmonkey]

I have some literaturall (spl? those this even exist) advice.

From Ven. Sujiva's The essentials of insight meditation practice Mahasi Sayadaw's tradition.

Handling objects in the wrong way. In the course of practice, the meditator may encounter unusual experiences that may be very fearful or blissful. In vipassana, they are taken note of mindfully and they will eventually pass away. If they persist, the next step is to ignore them and watch another Vipassana object (such as the breath). If the object(fear or bliss) continues to be dominant, one is advised to get up and do walking meditation.

He advises a bit later that people that have had mental breakdowns should seek a competent teacher for guidance, not only for the right practice but to help clear doubts that come along the way. - That's what I'm trying to do now.

He does also mention that mindfulness is never bad.
People who have problems in meditation is because of incorrect practice (even if you at some point did it correctly) hence the need for a teacher.

happiness@you.all

Hey Dean, I really resonated with your post and I deal with similar issues. Just hoping that this message reaches you and that you'd be willing to chat.