Author Topic: Is God Satan? Is Satan God?  (Read 11113 times)

Andrew

  • Member
    • friends tell me things, sometimes I listen.
    • Letting Go.
Re: Is God Satan? Is Satan God?
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2011, 07:13:01 AM »
This is very true. The deepest value is the way to go.
getting it done

Jeeprs

  • Guest
Re: Is God Satan? Is Satan God?
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2011, 07:58:31 AM »
I didn't mean to express 'anger' but I will admit, there are things that do annoy me and I react to. What got under my skin about this thread was simple lack of etiquette and respect for others.

I have thought a lot about the relationship of Buddhism and the God idea  - and I have come to the view that there are Buddhists who are atheists, and those who are not.  The Buddha himself was beyond the distinction. Certainly, he did not preach belief in god or gods, but remember, the gods in his world were those of the Hindu pantheon. Whether they were the same as what Christians understand by God, is an open question, in my view. After all, the teachings of Jesus, and the teachings of the Buddha, have far more in common than what sets them apart.

I do understand that it is certainly not part of the Buddhist path to believe in God - I'm totally clear about that. I never prosetelyse such ideas, but I am sensitive to remarks about God.  I would rather that this name is not rubbished. And if that is going to be, then I will certainly not stick around - but it is nothing personal.

Jeeprs

  • Guest
Re: Is God Satan? Is Satan God?
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2011, 10:05:36 AM »
There is also something I wish to add about my remark about Dusko 'not understanding what he is saying'. That is a very specific point, about this idea that jeeprs=dusko=andrew and all beings being one and so on....

What I mean to say about this is, that it is true that ultimately, we are 'all one', and that conventional labels and distinctions are only that - conventional.

This is very much part of the Mahayana tradition which I am studying.

It is not one of the teachings of the Theravada Vipassana teachers.

The point about this teaching is the idea of two levels of reality: conventional and ultimate. Conventional reality is the realm of ordinary conventional life where we all live our lives. The ultimate reality is the reality that the Buddha communicates.

The reason I made the remark about 'grasping the snake' is that from the time this teaching was created, it was always emphasized that it must be understood properly, otherwise you end up just collapsing all distinctions. You end up, in other words, with nihilism.

The name of this thread is very close to nihilism: nothing matters, there are no real distinctions, and so on. And nihilism is a real threat. Many people fall victim to nihilism, it is actually an affliction.

This is not said on some high-horse or from a sense of moral superiority. This is said sincerely as a co-practitioner and someone who cares for the truth. The path is a razor's edge in some ways, and understanding what we are doing on it is often more difficult than it seems. This is especially so in the crazy modern world, where many ideas are simply thrown out there and are circulating, and we have no real way of assessing their meaning.

It is also true that the Buddha would never insult other religious traditions. He would argue against them, and debate vigorously with them, and point out the errors in their ways. But He always showed respect, and in these matters, respect is called for.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 10:07:53 AM by Jeeprs »

Quardamon

  • Member
    • Teachers were: P.K.K. Mettavihari, Frits Koster, Nel Kliphuis. (In the line of Mahasi Sayadaw)
Re: Is God Satan? Is Satan God?
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2011, 01:19:13 PM »
Che,

What the heck are you doing?
Up and running/ posting at 4.45 in the morning today;
doing 13 posts yesterday.
That was your practice day for school, remeber?

If the world is rotting,
you are now supposed to let it rot,
and do your training to be an agriculturalist.

Leave it to God or Devil to be a God or a Devil right now.
You are supposed to be human.
One human.
One specific human,
A man to count on when it comes to growing tomatoes.
A man to count on when it comes to earning a living.
A man who is powerful enough to give attention to the details that are before him in a world that is on fire.
Any woman who sees her children die of hunger (somewhere in the third world) would want her husband to take care, even if it is only for a decent funeral ritual.

And if it is with tears on your face, have tears on your face. But do put your nose in those books. Do put your hands in the earth.

Yes, I do want you to have a self.
And if you have no self, grow it.
We do need selves who take care of what is close.
We do need people who deliver the post.
We do need people who grow food.
Leave it to the gods or whatever whether we are doomed or blessed.

Sometimes it takes more courage and endurace to be humble than to be a hero.

Morning Dew

  • Guest
Re: Is God Satan? Is Satan God?
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2011, 05:03:18 PM »
Quote
If the world is rotting,
you are now supposed to let it rot,
and do your training to be an agriculturalist.

This is a good advice :) thanks man.

Maybe it is time for me to leave this community so it can be in peace and harmony and keep the dark stuff in my own house.

4.45 i was up to walk the dog and making ready to go practice some crop sowing :)

Sowing weat :)

Quote
Do put your hands in the earth
I did :)


Be well

Namaste

  • Guest
Re: Is God Satan? Is Satan God?
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2011, 05:04:31 PM »
That tractor has a nose!!!! :D



and the red one has little arms!!
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 05:07:38 PM by littlegrape »

Morning Dew

  • Guest
Re: Is God Satan? Is Satan God?
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2011, 05:09:14 PM »
Big nose indeed :)

I agree with Andy about the Avatar and am changing it this very moment :)

Be well ya all

Morning Dew

  • Guest
Re: Is God Satan? Is Satan God?
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2011, 06:39:08 PM »

Andrew

  • Member
    • friends tell me things, sometimes I listen.
    • Letting Go.
Re: Is God Satan? Is Satan God?
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2011, 01:45:35 AM »


Maybe it is time for me to leave this community so it can be in peace and harmony and keep the dark stuff in my own house.



Dude, Dhamma brother, Dusko,

We love you. We have great hopes for you. We want you to succeed in being happy. We want this for you, we want it for ourselves.

let me list my friends for you,

My wife and family
My two remaining brothers
My best mate
My brother in law
This Sangha; Matthew , Dusko, Jonathan, Chintan, Vivek, Stefan, Masauwu, Cole, Tom, (and there are significant others who should be on the list who warm my heart when I see them post but names escape me right now, sorry!).

These are people I spend time with daily, in fact I spend more time with you that my brothers by a long way.

Others could probably post similar lists.

So get serious, stop playing the emotional game you so despise, just get in there and resolve that story. Forgive those who need forgiving, and ask for forgiveness from those who deserve you apologies.

I'm not giving you advice that I haven't followed myself here.
Though I didn't know it was just a story back then, and it just about destroyed me. The dhamma has led you to this point. You know the drama of life is a story in the mind; what a wonderful gift and a treasure to know!

I would love to catch up on skype so you can know that there is no anger behind anything I said to you yesterday, it was my best impression of a mirror. (definitely smudged and cracked, but hey, it's all I've got right now)

By the way I don't think Dr Evil regularly cries for the children of the world, so if you wouldn't mind, please put your face back on your avatar.

love

Andrew
getting it done

Andrew

  • Member
    • friends tell me things, sometimes I listen.
    • Letting Go.
Re: Is God Satan? Is Satan God?
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2011, 03:34:18 AM »

I'm not giving you advice that I haven't followed myself here.



I should say, I'm not echoing advice that I haven't followed myself.

Forgive them all.
getting it done

Quardamon

  • Member
    • Teachers were: P.K.K. Mettavihari, Frits Koster, Nel Kliphuis. (In the line of Mahasi Sayadaw)
Re: Is God Satan? Is Satan God?
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2011, 07:15:40 AM »
This community rather wants happy people to suit their spiritual needs.


Quote
If the world is rotting,
you are now supposed to let it rot,
and do your training to be an agriculturalist.

This is a good advice :) thanks man.

Maybe it is time for me to leave this community so it can be in peace and harmony and keep the dark stuff in my own house.

4.45 i was up to walk the dog and making ready to go practice some crop sowing :)

Sowing weat :)

Quote
Do put your hands in the earth
I did :)

Be well

Thank you for your reaction. I was so concerned that you had thrown away school already.

Of course you cannot satisfy our need foor good feelings and pats on the shoulder. That is not the place that you are in right now.
Being on the edge, being with Good and Evil, is a lonely place. That is the character of meeting one's edge.
You may hate it that, where you are now, you cannot help but shake us up, and disturb the "peace and harmony" of this community. (Or you might love it, or both.)

In my view, you are sincere, hard working and compassionate. I am in a place where I can choose a little bit how to see the world, Good and Evil, you, Jeeprs and others. And I will use this room to the best of my knowledge.

May you be well.
May others see the blessing that you are.

Morning Dew

  • Guest
Re: Is God Satan? Is Satan God?
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2011, 10:53:31 AM »
Quote
I was so concerned that you had thrown away school already

The schooling is chalenging but im letting it unfold on its own. Im attending the class and doing the internship. Things are happening.

There is a tendency to feel fear "what if i dont make it" but its been treated as any other thought by simply noting it and calming it down.
I am being very much mindful around people not connected to meditation. Compassionate even. I even Note their confusion, their suffering.

You have a soft heart not burdened with Achieving. Thank you Q for being who you are and for keeping an awake eye over this fidgeting Sangha.

May you too be well and happy

Morning Dew

  • Guest
Re: Is God Satan? Is Satan God?
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2011, 03:55:48 PM »
Fair play!



Stefan

  • The Marvellous Omannobazong!!!
  • Member
  • love is the key
    • Vipassana (Goenka), Freestyle, Family, God
Re: Is God Satan? Is Satan God?
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2011, 04:52:13 PM »

I feel this is such a useless discussion ... like ants discussing quantum physics, like geese discussing astronomy ... is Dusko a giraffe? is god ego? is the universe a pizza?

I really don't mean this offensive, but challenging. It is a fruitless intellectual debate, trying to label concepts like god or dhamma or stuff ... these are experience questions, not intellectual questions.

So, I don't feel offended by this discussion, but I feel reminded of little children playing in the sand trying to rebuild New Dehli in original measures with their tiny shovels.

You can go on discussing it, sure, but it will lead you nowhere. It is not at all practice.
anicca

 

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