Meditating in our dreams?!

[Matthew]

... annoying ...

     ... am I?

No I meant me but could have punctuated it better. Thought I'd seee how you reacted << see annoying ...

[Stefan]

aaah, those words, those words .... or, in this case, the grammar, the grammar ...

No I meant me ...

     ... are you?                                 ... 





PS.: I know I am annoying at times ...

[Matthew]

Some folk think so. Some not. Sometimes I am. Sometimes not. They've all got it right. But annoying doesn't mean bad necessarily. It can come from compassion and lead to awakening.

[Stefan]

  I don't care since there is no "I" ...

[Mungo]

I had a dream the other night that I thought was interesting and there was a funny part for TMOs benefit.

It was fairly mundane for the most part but there was some feelings of observing/watching rather than being involved.

At one stage I had entered this strange book store with a woman behind the counter. I didnt take much notice of the books and the woman ignored me and it was quite an unorganised store. I then got to a staircase made of books piled up and proceeded to walk up this "book staircase" to the level above. Upstairs I came to a hexagonal room with wooden floors and nothing but a telescope in the center. On each side of the hexagon there were windows closed with a purple curtain but the room wasnt completely dark. I went over to one of the windows and opened it a crack and outside was a beach and the ocean beyond. It was a very bright sunny day outside and light the flooded in at which point I closed it so as not to bother the store keeper downstairs. I looked over the telescope and pondered why such a great looking telescope was just sitting there in a closed room.

Interesting Part -
I dont usually interpret my dreams but this one seemed to say that I am done with "book learning". I have used them as steps to get where I am and have gotten to the top to the empty room. The peeking through the curtain and the light coming in was to say that there is great clarity and brightness behind the veil and I have seen a glimpse of it. I have a great telescope to observe all this but is being unused as yet. Either that or I am spiralling into delusion haha.

Funny Part-
The whole dream lasted for most of a day and this was a stop on my way to a 65th birthday party that afternoon I had been invited to.
I finally got to the party which was a smorgasboard. As I was walking over towards the food table I heard someone behind me say "hey, thats carlos castenada over there". He had a plate and was talking to a couple of people. As I got closer I heard him saying to these people that "there is no magic just process". At that point I got really peed off at him because he had taken the last 3 lamb chops and I really like lamb chops.

I have never read any castenada  books. My partner is really into him and gets me to read some paragraphs but its really trippy and a bit confusing for me. She loves terry pratchett to. I havent read him either but keep meaning to as it sounds quite fun.

Take Care All

[Matthew]

Mungo,

Your analysis of your own dream seems accurate.

Be well,

Matthew

[windaub]

Hi everybody! I don't know if I should start a new topic about that, I think that fits in this one. I'd just like to share some dream/meditation experience with you:

Three or four years ago, I trained to be lucid in my dreams for some months. I had maybe 40-50 lucid dreams. Some were just "oh it's a dream!" then I forgot I was dreaming, some were much more lucid, like I'm here as an observer for the whole dream, the dream stop, black screen(I'm still lucid, waiting), a few minutes after, another dream starts, etc...

Almost all of those dreams happened by realising from the dream state that I am dreaming. But in maybe 2 or 3 of them I stayed lucid from the waking state. I was in my bed, trying to sleep, then I realised I was sort of chewing a candy, and I told myself "This can't be possible, I don't have a candy and I didn't move a bit, I must have entered a dream"

I tried once to meditate in a dream, but that was before I took a Vipassana course, and I didn't really have a technique to meditate, I wasn't sure of myself. I sat on the ground, closing my eyes, but as soon I closed my eyes, I could see through my eyelids, and there were a lot of people around me, I couldn't concentrate.
Once I realised that, I had some fun in dreams "faking I was sleeping" inside my dream, eyes closed and watching everything that was happening in the dream through my eyelids.

One thing I noticed, meditation for sure increase memory(and by extension dream memory), and lucidity(same). In my second day of Vipassana course, I found myself in a dream talking to my mother, saying something like "I'm not with you right now you know, I'm sleeping at my Vipassana course, I'm not supposed to talk you know,I wonder if I'm authorized to talk in my dreams".
After that, I had no more lucid dreams, but my dream memory was astonishing, I could remember each move, each look, even smells in my dreams. Sometimes I though I had talked to people in real life but this was just in a dream. And one more thing, I had absolutely no weight in my dreams, I was floating in the air all the time.
I must say that even awaken, I was feeling very light.

After taking this course, I had some dreams in which I meditate(not lucidly), that was pretty funny, instead of feeling sensations inside my body, I was feeling sensations all around me, in all my dream universe, sometimes feeling sensations inside the others caracters of my dream, as if my limitations in my dream were not my physical body, but all the dream universe.

After that I decided to try to really meditate as soon as I would realise I was in a dream. So what happened a few times was, when I realised I was in a dream, I asked clearly "I want to get back to my physical body". Each time I did that, I felt pretty much this :

A few weeks ago during a dream i had these strong body sensations like waves of energy vibrating through my whole body, and two weeks ago in a different unrelated dream the same sensations manifested. I never had body sensations in a dream before, not so vivid anyway; both times after it happened i remember being half asleep half awake, sleep being interrupted by this. First instinct was to ask about it but then i thought it might be just a projection of my eagerness for results.

I'm not sure if I was still somehow dreaming or totally awake, but it was not "my dream body" that I was feeling, of that I'm sure, it was my real physical body, lying down in my bed. What I felt was like the free flow, but more in it's "Free hurricane" version.

[Renze]

I don't dream a lot, but I heard that lucid dreaming can be a side-effect of meditation practice. I've had a few weird experiences, that are somewhat related to the 'strong body sensations' that you and Masauwu described. It felt almost like I slipped into some sort of Jhana-like state, instead of sleeping. It's like you're sleeping, but at the same time have full-body awareness. It feels more invigorating than normal sleep! I noticed these experiences usually occur when you pick up the practice again after a long break.

[siddharthgode]

hi windaub,

i had similar experience in my first retreat, at that time there was no one to help me out and was very confused about lucid dreams. Then i found a youtube video of shinzen young about the topic and it was very helpful.

The more you enter from anapana to vipassana the lesser you start interfering with dreams and start relaxing.

Doing vipassana in sleep is encouraged by shinzen young. I personally have been able to do that 3 or 4 times and hard to understand those multiple body sensations (for me its the real sleeping body sensations and the dreaming body sensations, not of surrounding and all... ony 2 bodies)

[redalert]

A very experienced teacher told me that any experience that I have that leads to a happier life is good, but also that all this is still samsara and has the charachteristic of anicca and to give it no real importance.

Sorry if this is a downer.

[windaub]

Thank you for your answers!
In fact I am praticing again seriously for 2weeks now, it took me a long time to get rid of an annoying addiction which was not really getting along with meditation ! Even though vipassana helped me a lot to get out of this.
siddharthgode thank you for your insight about Vipassana/anapana, it makes sense,  I've been wondering for a while why I wasn't lucid dreaming even when I meditate a lot. Before knowing Vipassana, I had really a lot of lucid dreams when I was meditating. Now that  I do vipassana, I have a lot of weird dreams, in which I meditate in ways so weird I can't figure them out when I wake up, or I have some "techniques" to be more aware, but I really can't understand it after waking up (by the way it's a little frustrating !! like if I was missing something important ^^) Thank you also about shinzen young, I didn't know him, I will look into his videos!
Redalert don't be sorry! I think we are all in what you call samsara, but we won't just sit still all our lifes saying "nothing is important", this would be sad ^^

[mobius]

I think I've experienced something similar to what the first poster has...

I've noticed that my dreams have changed (or at least feel different) since I started meditating. One night I had a strange dream (wouldn't exactly call it a nightmare) but when I woke up I felt very weird and afraid. Almost like I was afraid someone or something was watching me or going to get me. It wasn't like waking up from a nightmare...

A few nights later I had a dream about seeing my own face, yet somehow it wasn't me...
Then I had my very first lucid dream the other night! (a pleasant one)

The weirdest dream I had has to be the one from back this past winter;

I was on some kind of important mission from God, in a desert or like a dry river bed. And in this dream; god was a cat, my cat actually, Idk how but somehow I knew that this cat was God. And the cat/god was leading me. I was with another large person but I can't remember who they were or what they were like other than being big and strong.
At some point I ended up inside a lavishly decorated temple.
We found this enormous stick which turned into a snake, then into a stick then a snake again. I had to cut the head off with a knife; but it kept growing back. Then it finally turned into a stick and vanished.
My friend pointed to the cat and said: "Ask him, that's God, after all. Ask him what to do."
but it didn't respond and walked away in silence. Then I was in a basement look at a staircase upward. Then I was outside in the desert again, it was stormy.

Then I was overwhelmed with a strong, powerful uneasy feeling; like everything about the world and life itself was not as I thought it was like I had been deceived or living some kind of delusion, and was suddenly forever changed.

The powerful feeling I described was truly strange and intense, I cannot put it into words; only describe an approximation.
On one hand it was a devastatingly sad and frightening feeling; like knowing I was about to die or that the whole world was ending.
On another hand it was a revelatory feeling. Like I just discovered something deep and terrible. Like I uncovered a lie or a hidden truth about the world or life itself. I felt totally deceived but at the same time awakened; like I suddenly had a new power that made me strong and opened up some kind of possibility. The feeling was so strong I believe this is what woke me up.

--now; I am not really much of a 'believer' or religious person in any fashion. Having said that; first of all; this dream really shook me to the core at the time. And I couldn't really articulate it into anything useful.
But now, consider that this dream took place last March. I even wrote it down on another forum with a time stamp anyone can check to see that's true.
As I write this post it's almost sixth months later (July) of the same year. Since this time several things have happened;

1) I got very interested (purely as a hobby) in Ancient history, particularly ancient Egypt. I started listening to a podcast which got me interested then I started reading books about it. [in the dream; I was in a desert then a golden (Egyptian like) temple]
2) I also bought a book (also from listening to this podcast) about the Dead Sea Scrolls which basically details some theories about the bible [in the dream; the stick turning into a snake (which comes directly from Moses's story) and my cat being God.
3) I discovered meditation and how mind altering it can be. My experiences thus far have been profound but I think I've only gotten a tiny taste of it as of yet. Even so, I've really been reevaluating myself and my life. I could be delusional but I think I'm beginning to feel changed somehow. Just one session of meditation made me feel so... 'awakened' it made me giggle with excitement and awe. [in the dream; the powerful feeling at the end.]

A week ago I suddenly looked back at this dream and got chills contemplating that I may have foresaw my own future. Even if there is just a chance of it being more than coincidence... In retrospect the first two things about Egypt and the bible may very well be coincidence but the feelings are different. They were incredibly unique in the dream and my feelings now after meditation are also incredibly unique and like nothing I've felt before.

[VipassanaXYZ]

Meditation is doing its job of making you aware of what is going on.

As you progress, you would be aware of things - aware of sensations and feeling in the dreams as well, without even freaking out.

It is natural that you would be aware of what is stored, stacked up in the mind, stay calm as it all releases and leaves you lighter

[mobius]

Meditation is doing its job of making you aware of what is going on.

As you progress, you would be aware of things - aware of sensations and feeling in the dreams as well, without even freaking out.

It is natural that you would be aware of what is stored, stacked up in the mind, stay calm as it all releases and leaves you lighter

thanks for the response but I don't feel like I'm becoming aware of what is going on... I feel like I don't have a clue what is going on. I have tons of ideas in my head as to what's going on but who's to say any of it has any shred of truth?

recently (After not meditating for about a month or longer then starting again) I had three experiences;
1. I dreamed that I was sitting meditating. I dreamt that I was meditating but after (or maybe it was at the same time) I was seeing myself (From afar). I was in some brightly lit room or maybe a room where the sun was shining in. Nothing unusual happened.
2. Later; same as above but this time I woke up around this time to find myself hallucinating; thus in an actual meditative state.* So... I was dreaming about meditation and it somehow translated to real life.  Maybe this isn't that strange; for example people dream of riding a bicycle then wake up to find they've kicked the covers off the bed.
3. Most recently I again dreamed I was meditating but this time I think I might have been half awake. My dream unlike the other two times the dream was in darkness. I can't remember exactly what I was seeing but I was beginning to feel a strange feeling, and thinking about not being myself, trying to let go of my ego. So I thought I was bringing on a thing which I experienced once before this summer. But after a moment or two I got scared and aborted (not really sure how, I guess consciously trying to get out of that works) and I woke up. I didn't feel very strange afterward. I'm not really trying to bring this on or fear it either.

*Since beginning meditation I hallucinate very easily in darkness, without wanting to. I seemingly have little control over this.

What happened to me this past summer was; I was struggling to sleep one night in bed and drifting in and out of sleep and hallucinating (but trying not to) then I just abruptly and briefly entered some kind of altered state of consciousness. It lasted only a moment maybe less than a second, but it was so shocking it completely woke me up and my heart was pounding. I got out of bed and I remember feeling strange for a while afterward. I can't describe exactly how but it was unsettling. I struggled to get back to sleep later. The next day I didn't feel good (at least partially due to lack of sleep that night) and had a few moments of bizarre feeling (not like what happened in bed) but strange enough that I started questioning my own sanity. It was after this that I stopped meditating entirely as it seemed to be getting unhealthy.

This feeling at night is what I thought might've been happening again recently. So part of me is curious about it but also really afraid of doing it again.