Author Topic: Is mercy karma's loophole?  (Read 14560 times)

Andrew

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Re: Is mercy karma's loophole?
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2011, 09:29:08 AM »
who posted that the other day "Two Buddhist kids in a sandbox"?
"
Your clinging!

No I'm not, your fabricating that!"

Dusko, you can't have a reaction and then when others have (in your eyes) a reaction go, "Gotcha" -that is just game playing. I have been having this conversation my ENTIRE life I can assure you I don't react to it. 12 years ago yes, I would have wanted to convert you, but now I only tell people I think can handle it. It is not an easy word to be at peace with. But it is just a word. GOD God god

Peace mate, it is all just words that hopefully give us insight moments when they melt before our eyes!

love



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Stefan

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Re: Is mercy karma's loophole?
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2011, 09:41:11 AM »


who posted that the other day "Two Buddhist kids in a sandbox"?


 :D  may I point out that I am truly happy you joined in!

you don't only present truth at times, but you present it in a good way.

Thank you!
anicca

Morning Dew

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Re: Is mercy karma's loophole?
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2011, 10:13:36 AM »
Do you think I reacted in my emotions? Not at all. Nice try though!  :P Just wanted to share something I've learnt with my friend!

Nope. I was talking entirely to Stefan :)

Ok! God always listens you say!
God is Nirvana you say! Can Nirvana listen? Are you experiencing Nirvana/God? Or are both of ya just trying to tell us that we are to believe that Santa Claus always listens to you?! Sorry i ment God  :angel:
Selling pop-corn and soft ice-cream on a Vipassana forum ay  ;D ;D ;D

If you have said Christ Mind/Mindfulness always listens then ok im with that but you did not say that, or?

I am happy to see both of you knowing me better than i know myself  ;D
Any chance to tell me if im going to win lotto this month?

Just joking here lads. Still friends of course.

Lets keep this Insightful Circus in peace n harmony no throwing rotten tomatoes at each other :)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 11:28:58 AM by Morning Dew »

Morning Dew

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Re: Is mercy karma's loophole?
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2011, 11:38:58 AM »
Quote
Contemplation has its' place I think but yes mindfulness is the first and last step whether or not all this thinking leads to any actual conclusion, and this isn't contemplation at this point anyway just a buncha overanalyzation 

You are showing great wisdom in these words my friend :) it makes me happy to see that. Yes Contemplation is a very important aspect of this Path and one is to spend time in Contemplating ... But not that often :)
Often contemplation tend to become a chatter box creating inner tension and restlesness. To avoid this i try to remember as often as im able to come back to the awareness of breathing and observe the contemplation "subject" arising and passing away :)
If my subject is arising and passing away just because the awareness is on the whole body breathing at the same time what does that tell me about that contemplation "subject/object"? ;)

Insight happens on its own accord, not when we intelectualy engage in pondering/contemplating :)

Good man and sorry for 3 lads playing wet shirts in your thread ;D
Ha ha ha

Stefan

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Re: Is mercy karma's loophole?
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2011, 12:06:22 PM »

Selling pop-corn and soft ice-cream on a Vipassana forum


at least I guessed THIS intention of yours right .... we DON'T WANT to sell you anything, as Andrew said in his words.


no throwing rotten tomatoes at each other :)


yes, please, don't. I still miss the insights on your intentions for jumping at everything that sounds like "churches" to you ...
come to tomatoes. you write about your gardening here, and noone told you that you sell soft icecream on this forum. did we? please leave us "our kind of tomatoes" without actually starting a religious war every time. "Lets-make-fun-of-the-believe-of-others" is a rather poor approach.

Have MERCY on us!
That would be YOUR karmic loophole out of this quite unnerving "buddhistic" habit of shooting at us "godbelievers".

And yes, you got me there. that's not hard. and it is no reason to be proud of it.
Not to get me there next time will be a reason for you to be proud of it.

Vipassana means meditation. This philosophing around things we didn't find out yet (YOU have no proof there is no god, and btw you have no proof there's no Santa Claus either) is, frankly, just a stupid habit, nothing more. I leave you your secularism, you will leave me my personalism, and then we will talk about mutual respect.

Yes I am angry.  >:(
Still friendly, though. Otherwise I wouldn't bother answering.

oh, and btw ...
....sorry, Cole, ...
anicca

Andrew

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Re: Is mercy karma's loophole?
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2011, 01:16:57 PM »

I asked a question and you Stefan reacted to it. Why dont you now observe that reaction and learn from it  ;D

Nope. I was talking entirely to Stefan :)

Dusko I thought you said you and Stefan reacted to it. Looks like I saw a word that wasn't there. Maybe I wanted it to be there...please throw some of your tomatoes at me, my pok choy nearly died, I could do with some decent seeds!


Yes I am angry.  >:(
Still friendly, though. Otherwise I wouldn't bother answering.

oh, and btw ...
....sorry, Cole, ...

I didn't see any anger in your words before, but I guess that goes to show how limited this medium is at communication of the WHOLE message. I think the points you made, though angry by your own admission, illustrate the mercy point quite well. Mercy is as mercy does, may we all have mercy on the unbelievers in our own beliefs!.  :D

metamorphosis to all.



 
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 01:52:18 PM by Andrew »
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Namaste

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Re: Is mercy karma's loophole?
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2011, 03:26:27 PM »
4) Karma doesn't work that way. Matthew wrote something about the misinterpretations of the karmic concept some years ago .... didn't find it in a hurry ... so, in my words:
It will never be your fault that Mr. Humptydumpty did some bad things a couple of centuries ago.
5) Meditating on your question, emptying the mind, stopping thinking, letting truth arise: ...
... I get the answer of "no", then ...  :)

I will read more on karma because my understanding of it is pretty basic, It wouldn't be my fault but I am worried I'd have to help "share the punishment" in a way - how could one not and be in the right?  I donno, I will meditate longer and see in the future what I think.   :)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 03:28:38 PM by Cole »

Morning Dew

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Re: Is mercy karma's loophole?
« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2011, 03:28:10 PM »
Stefaaaaaaaaaan :) hold your horses mate. Its all good its just Anicca as you nicely wrote in your signature :) take it easy with so many assumtions. I was just joking with ya. Why so sensitive when God is inquestion? I guess your believe is hanging on a tiny thread it seems. A little joke and the all good guy Stefan goes feeding the Anger-eating Demon Stefan. I love you man :) let go of it.

You know 3 guys joking making fun of each other.

Btw, i keep that Tomato Journal so to keep our hot heads out of the usual All Meditation Stuff, and refresh it with some Earth stuff which is what we are most of the time. Anywho if it bithers you people i will be hapoy to remove the whole og it, even my previous Journal. I thought Journals are inspiering others, i might very likeky be wrong.

Tell me it will make you a happier person and ill go and delete the tomato thread.

Btw, i am writing a song for you Stefan and will sing it on a guitar for you (god help us) when finished.

I apoligise for testing your equanimity and compassion i too find it hard to be calm and compassionate when in pain (sore throat).

Dusko out


Stefan

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Re: Is mercy karma's loophole?
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2011, 03:34:07 PM »
interesting, that was.

tension I felt from the first answer Dusko wrote in that other thread ... no matter what Dusko brought into it, it was my tension, of course. hard and cold as knife. then you, Andrew, had your fantastic moments where I exploded in laughter (I'd love to be here when you'll decide to have a "Carl Jung" on anyone  :D ) ... the laughter washed all away but the origin of the tension ... and that was pure anger. red, hot, bubbling ... you know it  ;) .... but only when I articulated my anger and also stated that I am angry it would ceise.

the anger originated from the feeling of ... well ... give you an example ...
I build a little shrine somewhere in the woods, not for religious rites but for the pure joy of it, put some flowers there, a nice beautiful stone and maybe a twisted branch for a little roof, sit down there between sun and wind for a minute and just be. that's holy to me. that feels holy to me. I don't need to build a permanent church there ... just that little, for that moment, for my own sake ...
next day I come along quite per chance and see that someone had a pee on my little shrine and left a note about the nonsense of religiosity.

that's how I felt. and up to the point where I will be developed much further I will become angry again, I am afraid. So, please, anybody, have mercy on me and leave my religiosity unattacked.

Metta to you all.
It is a treasure, this little forum here.

Yours sincerely, the varmellous honkman!!?
anicca

Stefan

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Re: Is mercy karma's loophole?
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2011, 03:40:37 PM »


I apoligise for testing your equanimity and compassion


so you tell me you wrote all that just to test my equanimity ...
anicca

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Re: Is mercy karma's loophole?
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2011, 03:42:46 PM »
You know 3 guys joking making fun of each other.

Language is funny.  Alot of blacks in the US talk through enormous arrogance to each other - they don't mean any of it, to outsiders they often sound like assholes, but they're using feigned/unserious arrogance as the medium through which to come out with much more personal/insightful conversation to each other.  When one actually gets offended, they drop it and get real fast.  It's just beautiful and works a hell of a lot better than walking-on-eggshells.  I'm generalizing heavily here as there are exceptions to both and race isn't a good thing to draw lines by but I think it might help paint the picture in this case.

Maybe that is what happened here, clash of style?  It's hard to tell over cold text.  Or maybe I am just talking to myself  :D :D

Stefan

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Re: Is mercy karma's loophole?
« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2011, 03:45:52 PM »

It wouldn't be my fault but I am worried I'd have to help "share the punishment" in a way


I cannot put my understanding of that into words so easily.
It's something like "you will share the punishment only if you insist" ... or maybe "only if you feel you should be punished" ...
well, quite something like that. Now I am quite interested myself on what the scripts have to say on that one.  ;)

Metta, Stefan
anicca

Stefan

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Re: Is mercy karma's loophole?
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2011, 03:54:11 PM »
You know 3 guys joking making fun of each other.

Language is funny.  Alot of blacks in the US talk through enormous arrogance to each other - they don't mean any of it, to outsiders they often sound like assholes, but they're using feigned/unserious arrogance as the medium through which to come out with much more personal/insightful conversation to each other.  When one actually gets offended, they drop it and get real fast.  It's just beautiful and works a hell of a lot better than walking-on-eggshells.  I'm generalizing heavily here as there are exceptions to both and race isn't a good thing to draw lines by but I think it might help paint the picture in this case.

Maybe that is what happened here, clash of style?  It's hard to tell over cold text.  Or maybe I am just talking to myself  :D :D

I'm not sure it's a clash of style only. Dusko writes he saw it as sort of joking around all the time. well, it wasn't only joking to me ... this particular piece was no joke for me. Maybe I should have stated that earlier, maybe I should have put it clearer "please leave that one be" ...
I know that sort of black lingo, in my punk times we had a friendly gang of turkish who were playing it all the time (Duck You, Fick ...). I can have that, no problem. but, well, sometimes, in certain circumstances, I will beg for the eggshells, please.  ;)

You couldn't have known that, Dusko, I am full aware of it ....   :) ... now you know.

Metta, Stefan
anicca

Morning Dew

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Re: Is mercy karma's loophole?
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2011, 04:09:34 PM »


I apoligise for testing your equanimity and compassion


so you tell me you wrote all that just to test my equanimity ...

Not directly, no :) it happens to look like it yes, but lets say i was rolling the boll for a while to get to know my friend Stefan a bit better.

Cole got it right ;)

As i said Stefan, im witing a song for you and will sing it to ya on a guitar once its finished. Cant find the words for the end ... Hm ...

Andrew

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Re: Is mercy karma's loophole?
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2011, 06:22:50 AM »
So Cole, how are you going with your thoughts on this one, is mercy karma's loophole? Let us know where you are at with this, it is a valid question. (As jeeprs said a page back)

My own feeling is there is a deep mystery here (I tend to think that about practically everything these days though!)

You know, the more you look at it, the answer is yes, true mercy is like compassion, it understands suffering from all angles and loves anyway. Is The Ancient Path a road of penance and punishment, or liberation and release? Do we sit down and feel bad deliberately? No, we sit down take some breaths, put a little smile on our face as we release the tension, we let go of trying, and strive no more. That sounds like an antidote to endless retributive action to me. Something someone could do in the darkest dungeon, or the most lavish palace.

In the end this thread shows how limit language is; Mercy is just another word for Letting Go. Isn't that what we would say if a criminal is let of from his prison? We had mercy on him. We let him Go. So it is when we sit, all the criminals of our past present and future are let go, released, set free. We can do this only because we know there is something more than the limited experience we are used to, and ultimately something far more mysterious going on. In this metaphor, the only one we actually had in prison we our own sense of self.

love
Andrew
« Last Edit: June 25, 2011, 06:40:02 AM by Andrew »
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dragoneye

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Re: Is mercy karma's loophole?
« Reply #40 on: June 25, 2011, 06:26:50 AM »
Quote
Cole, for me gratitude is better than certitude, and mercy better than judgement. Karma; understanding that is like chasing the wind, make it your friend instead and fly a kite!
Andy, beautiful writing (sorry, but I had to let you know ;))

What is this guilt Cole? Mercy might be an appropriate solution, if you mean the mercy you could have for yourself.
I do not think we need it from anyone else.
With metta,
DE
Dragoneye

Andrew

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Re: Is mercy karma's loophole?
« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2011, 06:42:12 AM »
Thanks DE, this is an interesting topic, I'm happy as well to read your insights these days, it's nice to get to know you!  :)

A
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Morning Dew

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Re: Is mercy karma's loophole?
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2011, 07:01:44 AM »
Quote
What is this guilt Cole? Mercy might be an appropriate solution, if you mean the mercy you could have for yourself.
I do not think we need it from anyone else.

Hear hear :) Seconded

Namaste

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Re: Is mercy karma's loophole?
« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2011, 08:15:09 AM »
Quote
What is this guilt Cole? Mercy might be an appropriate solution, if you mean the mercy you could have for yourself.
I do not think we need it from anyone else.

Hear hear :) Seconded

I don't feel guilt associated with the question.  Mercy for ourselves is part of it - Andrew put it good right here.

You know, the more you look at it, the answer is yes, true mercy is like compassion, it understands suffering from all angles and loves anyway. Is The Ancient Path a road of penance and punishment, or liberation and release? Do we sit down and feel bad deliberately? No, we sit down take some breaths, put a little smile on our face as we release the tension, we let go of trying, and strive no more. That sounds like an antidote to endless retributive action to me. Something someone could do in the darkest dungeon, or the most lavish palace.

In the end this thread shows how limit language is; Mercy is just another word for Letting Go. Isn't that what we would say if a criminal is let of from his prison? We had mercy on him. We let him Go. So it is when we sit, all the criminals of our past present and future are let go, released, set free. We can do this only because we know there is something more than the limited experience we are used to, and ultimately something far more mysterious going on. In this metaphor, the only one we actually had in prison we our own sense of self.

love
Andrew

Mercy to us when we slip, mercy from us when others slip..   compassion in human context, feels like to me.
 

Matthew

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Re: Is mercy karma's loophole?
« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2011, 08:39:04 AM »
Awakeness, mindfulness and the fruits thereof including compassion, which leads to mercy is Karma's loophole. You can burn your Karma by facing the truth, all of it. It's called Nirbanna, Nirvana, Enlightenment or being awake.

Be well. May be back in about two weeks full time.

Much love to all,

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Andrew

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Re: Is mercy karma's loophole?
« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2011, 11:34:49 AM »
i
I build a little shrine somewhere in the woods, not for religious rites but for the pure joy of it, put some flowers there, a nice beautiful stone and maybe a twisted branch for a little roof, sit down there between sun and wind for a minute and just be. that's holy to me. that feels holy to me. I don't need to build a permanent church there ... just that little, for that moment, for my own sake ...
next day I come along quite per chance and see that someone had a pee on my little shrine and left a note about the nonsense of religiosity.


Yours sincerely, the varmellous honkman!!?

This is an amazing little story TMO, I admire your freedom of spirit and playful reverence of simple beauty. Just so I'm clear though, someone actually unzipped their dacks and took a slash on your shrine, then pulled out pen and paper to educate you on the nonsense of religion?! That is amazing! I'm so lost for words! I can image someone kicking it over, or a dog weeing on it, but leaving a note is...um... just ...I...well...it's...oh dear....  ???

Varmellous Honkman, you have no choice but to get out there and build shrines in honor of the industrious person who wees on shrines and leaves notes, such thoughtfulness cannot go un-celebrated!. We definately have to think of a super villian name for this soul...The Wizzen Scribbler maybe?

The Penal Publisher, The Wee Fairy, The Crusading Crutch, Zippy the Educator,  The Pencil Pecker?
Peeny Wonder Pen?

TMO, every super hero has their nemesis, I think you have found yours.

A (I sooo want a super name now  ::))

Edit: Cool post Matthew, it has a great ring to it.

 
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Stefan

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Re: Is mercy karma's loophole?
« Reply #46 on: June 25, 2011, 12:17:28 PM »


...The Wizzen Scribbler maybe? The Penal Publisher, The Wee Fairy, The Crusading Crutch, Zippy the Educator,  The Pencil Pecker?
Peeny Wonder Pen


 :D   nearly suffocating from laughter  :D

no, I can't answer right now... incredible ...

 :D air!  :D
anicca

Stefan

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Re: Is mercy karma's loophole?
« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2011, 12:40:00 PM »

This is an amazing little story TMO, I admire your freedom of spirit and playful reverence of simple beauty. Just so I'm clear though, someone actually unzipped their dacks and took a slash on your shrine, then pulled out pen and paper to educate you on the nonsense of religion?! That is amazing! I'm so lost for words! I can image someone kicking it over, or a dog weeing on it, but leaving a note is...um... just ...I...well...it's...oh dear....  ???
 

I build shrines like that sometimes. The Wizzen Scribbler never finds them.  ;)
But.
My post about the Dalai Lama was like a little shrine to me. Nothing like "who and why is the D.L.", nothing like "discussing religions", just me feeling "shriney" on those words. And while I couldn't find the right words to describe what it was that Dusko did ("to me", of course, my ego responds), this little story provided every element of what I felt had happened.
"to me", that is ...  ;)
Dusko has his own view on that, of course, but I guess now we both understand the whole "thing" a little better and can enjoy the weekend.


The Wizzen Scribbler maybe? The Penal Publisher, The Wee Fairy, The Crusading Crutch, Zippy the Educator,  The Pencil Pecker? Peeny Wonder Pen
 

:D   I'm still not finished with laughing that one off. Super Villain? Ha!
You just provided me with a whole gang of "Supee Weellains" and now I have to look out for other heroes for the ultimate Team-Up ...
anicca

Stefan

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Re: Is mercy karma's loophole?
« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2011, 12:43:56 PM »


Awakeness, mindfulness and the fruits thereof including compassion, which leads to mercy is Karma's loophole. You can burn your Karma by facing the truth, all of it. It's called Nirbanna, Nirvana, Enlightenment or being awake.


And that's incredible, too.  Looks like we provided all pieces of the puzzle in this thread already, but ... oh so neatly put together in two lines ... that's so very Matthew!

Metta, Stefan
anicca

Andrew

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Re: Is mercy karma's loophole?
« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2011, 02:09:55 PM »
"Supee Weellains"

Hahahaha THAT is gold.  ;)

The Wizzen Scwibbler, Supee Weellain esquire.

Hey just a thought on the 'forum thread shrines', I think it is possible to lock threads. Perhaps you can make some "The Marvelous Ommanobazong!!! shrines" for us online, lock them, and we can all go and wee elsewere!

Anderoo.

Edit; Actually, how about the next nature shrine you do, take a happy snap for us, I really like the idea of random shrines around the neighbourhood!
« Last Edit: June 25, 2011, 02:49:25 PM by Andrew »
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