Author Topic: The Journey into Jhanas  (Read 5197 times)

Morning Dew

  • Guest
The Journey into Jhanas
« on: June 03, 2011, 07:14:30 AM »
Hi friends  :)

Here i stand before you "naked". I feel now strongly that The Actual Is out of reach of the Intelectual. One gets some very helpful intelectual insights via contemplation and the early stages of sitting meditation. The Time comes for the fruit to be eaten otherwise it will fall down to ground and rot away leaving one standing there in wondering and hungry.

Ajahn Brahm inspired me to take the journey into jhanas and awake the deepest being of existance which is wrapped under the layers of greed and ignorance so deeply rooted no intelectual power can rip it out but the actual light of the illuminated mind so quiet and still.
It is time to let go of the hindrances and ride the beautiful breath, beautiful metta, beautiful nature, beautiful heart.

Brahm as well as others sais that the pure feeling of Metta can lead one into Jhana. Is this realy so? I had the impression that only the awareness of the breath can do so but according to him one can do it via kasinas, chanting, metta, breath. 
I wonder can one do it also by listening to dhamma talks? Or by listening to chants while totaly being aware of it?

Thanks for any help offered.

May we all be free from suffering away from hunger and harm. May you family be happy and away from harm. May those i am indifferent to have all the happyness there is may the be away from harm may they be free from suffering. May all beings be free from suffering may they be happy.


Andrew

  • Member
    • friends tell me things, sometimes I listen.
    • Letting Go.
Re: The Journey into Jhanas
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2011, 09:38:19 AM »
Hey Dusko  :)

Back in 2003 I would go to dhammaloka centre (Ajahn Brahm is abbot there) and try to meditate. 2001/2002 was around when in Ingram's MCTB book Arising and passing away happened to me. I see now that I spent the best part of the last decade in Dark Night, according to this Path approach. Why is that relevant to jhana? Because it was jhana I experienced for those '8 seconds' I spoke about when I first logged onto this forum and what I hoped to get back. It has taken all that time to burn out of me my expectations and especially the last 4 or so months here to finally get my hand back on the door to jhana!

But I can feel the handle through the breath. What bounces me out is still excitement and hallucinations.  Once I get that locked in feeling, and I sense that bliss is not far away, my mind tends to get agitated. So I accept that I have to build mindfulness and calm all the hindrances during the day. This is why I don't sit for more than 30 mins at the moment. I get to the 'door', mind locks in, then mind get excited!

Thats all I can offer.

may all sit down to a nice cup of jhana!

Andrew
getting it done

rideforever

  • Guest
Re: The Journey into Jhanas
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2011, 11:32:09 AM »
Andrew ... sounds like you are still trying to second guess the Jhanas.  Wouldn't an approach of Sila / no expectations bear more fruit ?  And sort of deal with the excitement / expectations at their root ?

Andrew

  • Member
    • friends tell me things, sometimes I listen.
    • Letting Go.
Re: The Journey into Jhanas
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2011, 02:37:40 AM »
Yeah that's my thoughts too, so I don't get anxious about it any more, I just make sure that during the day I'm letting my thoughts notice motivations/ feelings/ thoughts/ sensations so I can increase morality / compassion/ sympathetic joy, etc.

My post does sound like I'm 'trying to get back there' by effort, that's not the case though, well I should say I have seen where the efforts should be made, and I'm redirecting it there...

I have to iron the kids clothes now, wifes orders!

Metta mate.
Andrew

getting it done

Namaste

  • Guest
Re: The Journey into Jhanas
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2011, 03:21:31 AM »

I don't understand how you could experience jhana while having your eyes open or moving about, but I'm not sure what jhana really is/if I've ever experienced it.  The "empty space" feeling?  I think intense joy and concentration can be experienced through music, where music is the breathing.  Most things breathe in some way, or maybe we breathe through them I don't know but there's some breathing going on.


soma

  • Guest
Re: The Journey into Jhanas
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2011, 11:40:04 AM »
It seems one has to sit for 2- 3 hours every day to get cocentrated and relaxed enough for the jhanas to happen.
Being mindful all throughout the day and aware of the hindrances arising will make you much more prepared for the formal sitting and just continuing doing what you have been doing all day, but now sitting on the cushion.
Relaxing the body completely and contuinue to be aware of any tensions and relaxing them and make a real effort to really stay with the breath and coming back to it whenever you lose it. The tricky part is to make that effort without that effort becoming a contraction/tension. It is not really an effort of concentration to stay with the breath but more like an effort of will/resolve if that makes sense.
Sitting two one-hour sessions a day is probably some kind of minimum to get there but concentation/relaxation skills varies among people so some might need less and others might need more.
Once jhana has been experienced a few times one knows better how one got there, how one best relaxes the body and what relaxing the body really feels like and it will be much easier and faster to get there but sitting one-hour sessions is probably a good idea.
Jhana can be experienced with eyes open and it might even be easier with eyes half open as the mind tend to wander less with them half open - less daydreaming. It is also possible to experience jhana when moving around wich becomes clear when you becomes really absorbed during kinhin (walking meditation).
A former member (Jhananda) advised to sit as you would never get up again and don't time your sits - I have found that advise useful.

Also like to add that cultivating joyous feelings when you sit down to meditate really helps alot.
A sense of, 'Oh how fortunate i am to have found this practice and how much joy and peace i get fom it and now i am sitting down to meditate and have the chanse to really let go of all concerns and just rest in the breath'
To quote some lama whos name i forgot, 'There is no way to happiness - happiness itself is the way'
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 12:12:02 PM by soma »

Andrew

  • Member
    • friends tell me things, sometimes I listen.
    • Letting Go.
Re: The Journey into Jhanas
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2011, 01:54:59 PM »

A former member (Jhananda) advised to sit as you would never get up again and don't time your sits - I have found that advise useful.

Also like to add that cultivating joyous feelings when you sit down to meditate really helps alot.
A sense of, 'Oh how fortunate i am to have found this practice and how much joy and peace i get fom it and now i am sitting down to meditate and have the chanse to really let go of all concerns and just rest in the breath'
To quote some lama whos name i forgot, 'There is no way to happiness - happiness itself is the way'

Great advice I feel. I sat down 2 nights ago to meditate and had left the bathroom fan on to exhaust the steam thinking 'I'll turn it off when I have meditated'. Well my mind locked in, but the first thought that came up to distract was 'I wish I had turned that fan off, it will keep my wife awake' so it had a tension that I couldn't get past. As it had been 20-30 mins, I didn't want to start again, so I left it after a short while longer, powered the engines down and put it back in the hanger!.

I was actually thinking today about gratitude. I spend so many thoughts on lamenting the modern plastic world I live in, I don't spend as many thoughts on being thankful for the immense privilege it is to be so well fed, clothed and sheltered, doctors,  police and armies protecting me with so many of my wants fulfilled as well. I do always say 'thankyou' under my breath when I just feel that things could have gone bad but they didn't. Exactly who is thanking and whom I'm thanking is becoming quite unclear, but that is beside the point IMO.

thanks!
Andrew
getting it done

Morning Dew

  • Guest
Re: The Journey into Jhanas
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2011, 09:38:37 PM »
Thank you soma for such a thorow reply mate.

The last day of my solo retreat i felt like my breath was disapearing, i paniced and even stopped the retreat before the determined time. I was fighting to find the breath. No-self is a scary feeling. Maybe i need time to get used to it? Or not!

Im getting tired of all this yet i remain sitting every day for half an hour. I dont see any improvements. I just sit there tired and the mind seems untouched fully equiped with thoughts and perceptions of all kind. Am i fit for this task? Seems like there is no end to this. Feels like the times i was in the war and i just wanted for the war to stop so i could go home.

I wanna go home.  I want this to stop!

May we all be free from suffering
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 09:44:25 PM by Dusko »

Jeeprs

  • Guest
Re: The Journey into Jhanas
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2011, 11:22:56 PM »
To quote some lama whos name i forgot, 'There is no way to happiness - happiness itself is the way'

Thich Nhat Hanh.

Very good post, thanks, great reminder of the principles.

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Staff
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: The Journey into Jhanas
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2011, 11:47:46 PM »
Dusko,

You want the war to stop. It will. You are finding your answers. No self is like having the air sucked from your lungs when you start to touch it. Many mysterious and strange experiences can be expected on the path. Remember the basics: suffering, impermanence and no self, follow the breath to establish calm. When calm is established follow your sensations. Cling to no theories, dogma or doctrine.

Be well,

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Morning Dew

  • Guest
Re: The Journey into Jhanas
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2011, 09:32:03 AM »
Quote
Cling to no theories, dogma or doctrine.

No worries here mate :) i didnt mean to go to church to listen to the preast but only to sit there and enjoy the silence on days no one is there. And to listen to byzantine music. Reconecting me to some memories and bringing up feelings behind them.

Thanks for the reminder though.

Be well

jeepneyko

  • Guest
Re: The Journey into Jhanas
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2011, 07:49:31 PM »
i cant help it, but here goes...

it happened at my second-sit course.

the breath becomes thinner and thinner.. the sensation all over is like little ants crawling on the surface, or more like tiny electric currents.. and then.. boom! the whole body is like a an empty shell, the sensation is way far like from a distance, and the scanning of body is like a huge effort of climbing a very stiff mountain trail, and remaining in the tranquil empty shell is no effort at all. the sounds of moving things are still there but far... the thoughts are like gentle ripples with spaces in between.. the ''i'' is still there aware of all that's happening like an expansive space.

there is no disturbance at all, the chant began and slowly the sensation came back like there's an outer body closing in. had there been no ending chant i would have lasted for eternity sitting like a space (not a rock on this time).

is it just me or my imagination? i cant duplicate that now, and i dont think i can replicate that again, each sitting is a different experience after that one above.

Morning Dew

  • Guest
Re: The Journey into Jhanas
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2011, 09:00:31 PM »
I have exprienced that empty shell-body space before i started with Shamatha when i practiced Ki-breathing. Empty shell feeling like something else is doing the breathing. This is not Jhana according to Ajhan Brahm which is explained very well in his book Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond. Jhana according to him is a very shiny bright experience, a state of bliss 10 times better than sex, ecstatic aparently. The empty shell is not like this at all.

Be well

jeepneyko

  • Guest
Re: The Journey into Jhanas
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2011, 06:08:44 PM »
I have exprienced that empty shell-body space before ...... This is not Jhana according to Ajhan Brahm which is explained very well in his book Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond. Jhana according to him is a very shiny bright experience, a state of bliss 10 times better than sex, ecstatic aparently. The empty shell is not like this at all.

Be well

Thank you for the clarification.. can you please direct me to where i can read/ view that Ajhan Brahm's explanation on the 'jhanas'?

Morning Dew

  • Guest
Re: The Journey into Jhanas
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2011, 07:32:34 PM »
... Jhana according to Ajhan Brahm which is explained very well in his book "Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond"

Thanks to this book i have made peace with my self, and became content with my beautiful delightful breath :)

jeepneyko

  • Guest
Re: The Journey into Jhanas
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2011, 08:08:40 PM »
my gad! am i reading or what? lol  :D

sorry for missing that up.. hehehe.. thanks so much.. will find that ASAP! hehehe  ;)

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
2 Replies
3659 Views
Last post March 21, 2010, 11:24:32 PM
by mik1e
8 Replies
3414 Views
Last post September 23, 2011, 09:06:37 AM
by Namaste
6 Replies
2500 Views
Last post August 29, 2011, 08:15:14 AM
by Andrew
2 Replies
1043 Views
Last post February 23, 2014, 03:00:07 PM
by Just A Simple Guy
8 Replies
1876 Views
Last post November 29, 2014, 06:04:11 PM
by betty
1 Replies
816 Views
Last post March 05, 2016, 06:10:25 PM
by TheJourney
3 Replies
382 Views
Last post January 31, 2019, 08:29:01 PM
by georg7887