Really Bad Day

[ozric]

Hi, I joined this site about a year ago and have since drifted from meditation practice. However, I am in the process of getting back into - hence why i am reading this thread.

In regard to the difference between CBT and psychoanalysis. I literally just read the therapy chapter of my psych book this afternoon and Cognitive behavioural therapy focuses on altering the thoughts and behaviours of a person; it is not concerned with the underlying causes. Psychoanalysis has insight as its goal. The therapist aims to lead the client to realize the underlying traumas that give rise to their unhelpful thoughts and behaviours. It is aknowledged to be a longer process than CBT and therefore more expensive which I believe has been a factor in psychoanalysis losing popularity.

regards

Nick

[Morning Dew]

Hi, I joined this site about a year ago and have since drifted from meditation practice

Welcome Nick good to have you back. Did you start practicing again?

Friendly Dusko

[Andrew]

Hi Nick,

By your psych book do you mean that you are studying it at uni? It will be really cool to get your perspective regardless, you sound like the thoughtful type!

equal regards and spiritual love

andy

[ozric]

thanks for the welcome,

I haven't started practicing again yet. I read the book Dharma Bums by kerouac over the last week and it inspired me again, but I haven't actually sat down and meditated. although, I began going through a loving-kindness exercise before bed and I have tried to start being mindful throughout the day. Usually when I get stressed it is what I resort to.

I am studying at University. Two more days of exams  . I'm just in an intro psych course in my first year. I've become fairly disenchanted with University and I'll be glad to be done. I'm not returning next fall, but may do so eventually.

kindly

Nick

[Vivek]

Welcome back, Nick. Thanks for sharing on CBT v/s psychoanalysis.

[Mindfullness]

Thank you all for the information on CBT. I just tried to meditate right now for an hour, and it was(as expected)somewhat challenging. I remained calm the entire session, and I think my entire body was relaxed. However, as I meditated I noticed that there were two major repeating thoughts that kept happening:

1. I kept visualizing the music videos I saw on youtube a few hours ago
2. Negative thoughts about the future, regarding my sexuality.

I should elaborate on the second one. I am gay, and I come from an extremely conservative South Asian family. Although many of my close friends know that I am gay, my family does not and I am still not comfortable telling them. For a while, in my undergrad, my anxiety about my situation caused me to have depression and dive into a more moderate version of OCD. It impacted my grades a lot and is still on my mind a lot, although not nearly as much(I finished my undergrad a year ago). I have to be honest in saying that it still causes me to worry sometimes...at least once during the day.

However, there is still one event regarding this that still bothers me. A few years ago, at my temple, a cousin of one of my friends(the cousin was about 26 years old at the time while I was 19)was sitting right behind me. He whispered something really quietly to my friend...I didn't hear what he said, but I intuitively had a gut instinct regarding what he said. He asked my friend if " I was still gay"...my friend laughed and said I wasn't gay and then they both starting laughing behind me....I felt really uncomfortable, so me and another friend moved to the other side of the room. He then laughed with a bunch of his friends about what he had just said, while continuing to glance at me to indicate to his friends that he was talking to me. Afterwards, two of my friends told me what he was laughing at(they were laughing too, because they thought it was really funny, and they don't know I'm gay). This event really traumatized me. It happened 5 years ago, and although it doesn't have the same impact, it still really causes me to think. For about a year or two, I didn't even talk about this situation. I still think about what I would do if I saw this person again--would I shake his hand? Would I want him dead? I constantly reinterpret and replay what he did in my head as I meditate.

It is these two thoughts that dominate my meditation. Today was no exception. When I meditated, and recognized that I have thoughts popping up, I just let them go and continued to focus on my body, and the thoughts kept popping up. Despite this, I maintained my calm, and didn't let it bother me. I meditated for about an hour, but despite the fact that I remained calm, I didn't feel go after the session was over. Is this normal? Am I doing something wrong? Sorry, I just feel like this happens a lot.

P.S. sorry for the long post, this is something I just want to clear up.

[Mindfullness]

I meant to say " I didn't feel GOOD after the session was over." lol.

[Quardamon]

Hello Mindfullness before know as Nliyan25,

That is quite some clearing up that you do. Very good.
So also during meditation, this issue of your sexual identity and how others react to it, is on your mind.
So it needs attention. That is all.

Now, we do not choose who we are. We find out. You found that you are a man who regards men as the fair sex. So you need to build a life as a homosexual man.
In my opinion, the issue that you meet is not something that happened five years ago. Your need now is to build an identity, to find like-minded people. If in the year 2015 people will laugh at you, will you have learned how to react? I suppose, you need to learn new ways.

In Christianity, there is a movement called "queer theology" aimed at finding a place for gay people in the church. My wife tells me so - she studies one day a week. To her knowledge, there is not such a movement in Buddhism. I certainly hope there is.

It is so tough to be a good man and still not good according to the rules of those around you. Do you know other gay people? Do you know how they cope?

I tried googling on the issue. Found some novels on:
http://www.anotherqueerjubu.com/another_queer_jewish_budd/asia/
But probably, coming from an other culture, I can hardly reflect on your situation.

I really wish you well.

Quardamon

P.S.: Do keep us informed, please

[rideforever]

Today was no exception. When I meditated, and recognized that I have thoughts popping up, I just let them go and continued to focus on my body, and the thoughts kept popping up. Despite this, I maintained my calm, and didn't let it bother me.

It sounds to me that your thoughts are still very powerful and you are identified with them during meditation ... if so this will likely improve with more practice and they will seem more separate from you and lose power.  This will help them resolve.

There is no reason to try and have a 'calm' meditation.  If something bothers you, let it bother you and remain equanimous to it.  If you push it away you are not being equanimous.  The greater your ability to be equanimous, the greater your ability to allow a great dark storm into your being and shake you to your foundations whilst you remain held-fast to your equanimity ... this will allow the storm to be 'processed' quickly.

[Mindfullness]

Today was no exception. When I meditated, and recognized that I have thoughts popping up, I just let them go and continued to focus on my body, and the thoughts kept popping up. Despite this, I maintained my calm, and didn't let it bother me.

It sounds to me that your thoughts are still very powerful and you are identified with them during meditation ... if so this will likely improve with more practice and they will seem more separate from you and lose power.  This will help them resolve.

There is no reason to try and have a 'calm' meditation.  If something bothers you, let it bother you and remain equanimous to it.  If you push it away you are not being equanimous.  The greater your ability to be equanimous, the greater your ability to allow a great dark storm into your being and shake you to your foundations whilst you remain held-fast to your equanimity ... this will allow the storm to be 'processed' quickly.

Sacha:

I always thought that part of being equanimous was being calm? Maybe I am just confused? If so, what constitutes being equanimous?

[Mindfullness]

Hello Mindfullness before know as Nliyan25,

That is quite some clearing up that you do. Very good.
So also during meditation, this issue of your sexual identity and how others react to it, is on your mind.
So it needs attention. That is all.

Now, we do not choose who we are. We find out. You found that you are a man who regards men as the fair sex. So you need to build a life as a homosexual man.
In my opinion, the issue that you meet is not something that happened five years ago. Your need now is to build an identity, to find like-minded people. If in the year 2015 people will laugh at you, will you have learned how to react? I suppose, you need to learn new ways.

In Christianity, there is a movement called "queer theology" aimed at finding a place for gay people in the church. My wife tells me so - she studies one day a week. To her knowledge, there is not such a movement in Buddhism. I certainly hope there is.

It is so tough to be a good man and still not good according to the rules of those around you. Do you know other gay people? Do you know how they cope?

I tried googling on the issue. Found some novels on:
http://www.anotherqueerjubu.com/another_queer_jewish_budd/asia/
But probably, coming from an other culture, I can hardly reflect on your situation.

I really wish you well.

Quardamon

P.S.: Do keep us informed, please

Thanks Quardamon for the kind words! I still think a big problem with myself is that I am not comfortable with my sexuality. I have not met very many gay people who I would even consider hanging out with--many of the ones who I have met are just not good people, or they are too flamboyant or they lead self-destructive lifestyles. A big problem is that I am currently living at home and don't have a car, so I rarely go out on weekends, ever. I'm living at home because I wanted to save money for a year after finding a job and then move into my own place. I still haven't found a full-time job, so that's a problem. I really think once I get out of the house, I will start to meet more people. Also, I think meditation will help me be more confident and comfortable with myself.

[Andrew]

Hi Nliyan,

My own father grew up with strong homosexual tendencies. He never spoke about it until a month or two before he died, so I don't know if they were always there or a result of abuse as a child which was pretty horrendous. He did talk with his brother who didn't believe him, and as he was adopted, and loved less than his brother, never got the courage to tell his parents. Moral of the story? There isn't one, that's just what happened.


There are no two ways about this, you need to sit your parents down and tell them the truth. At the moment is it eating away at you. BUT, only you know how they might react so you will need to be prepared for the consequences. That is the heart of the issue, which of course is why you are here, finding a way to build the courage and calm to do this.

I don't bother myself at this stage with too many big words, I'm a beginner as well. But what I do know is what you are experiencing when meditating is exactly what you should be experiencing. Changing this is not the aim. I found that trying to describe the sensations in words other than 'anger' fear' 'frustration' was very helpful. After some weeks the burning in my chest was just that a burning, I stopped thinking of it as anger, and just felt the energy.
It then began to dissipate over the next few weeks.

Feel the fear, but don't call it fear. Watch it. Where is it? In you abdomen? In your chest? You will quickly find that words start being inadequate and you will need lots of them to do away with the usual abstract ones we use i.e. 'fear' will become 'buzzing, sinking, tight, prickly' perhaps! Once you can do this, do away with abstract words, you will have peeled back the first layer of illusion. this will give you the first glimmers of courage.

Take your time, but have a goal in mind so that you don't fall away from what needs to be done. Perhaps it will take 3 months, maybe 6 or 12. Don't rush, but sit twice a day and build the habit deep. Once you start, the whole universe will be on your side as this is the ancient path. It already is on your side it would seem .

love

andy