Author Topic: Japan  (Read 10559 times)

Stefan

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Japan
« on: March 16, 2011, 07:02:57 AM »
I need to talk about it. But I don't want to go on in that "Christians"-Thread by Daiho since it had been quite distorted from the beginning and doesn't improve ... so ...

Right now there are still a few dozen people climbing around in Fukushima and try to avoid the megacatastrophe that would wipe out parts of their country ... they use all sorts of tricks, normally not likely to be used outside big hollywood productions ... I feel deep respect to these people, they don't talk, they don't try to save their skin, they just go on fighting. So much luck I wish to you! If there is a god: may he be with you. If there are several gods: may they all be with you. If there's just luck: may it be with you.

Metta to Japan, Metta to You all, Stefan

PS.: http://www.vipassanaforum.net/forum/index.php/topic,1422.0.html
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 07:10:29 AM by stefan »
anicca

Jeeprs

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Re: Japan
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2011, 07:19:35 AM »
Yeah I'm with you on that, according to the newspapers here, two engineers in that plant are missing from the explosion on Tuesday morning, and it is more than possible that many of the other staffers there are going to suffer catastrophic radiation burns trying to get in under control.

It is incredible, the scale and scope of the catastrophe that has struck Japan this week. The size of what has happened makes it seems almost surreal, but regrettably it is not. I have been very moved by their stoicism, also. All those interviewed expressed courage and determination, as well as grief and shock. But it is going to be very, very difficult for the Japanese people for some time to come, I imagine.

rideforever

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Re: Japan
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2011, 08:25:53 AM »
I am wondering if those 2 just wanted to stay alive and ran.

Alexanderjohn

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Re: Japan
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2011, 11:16:16 AM »
My family have actually been planning a trip to Kyoto supposedly leaving on Friday. We're still planning on going at the moment but it seems to be slipping away after each news report. The place we are staying is telling us to come anyway and sends us pictures of cherryblossoms telling us it is a season of rebirth. I see videos of villages being swept away by water, cars being as they try and escape and I don't feel some kind of immense sadness, I am not there, I have no close ties and cannot comprehend what it is like to lose loved ones like that, i have seen too many movies that have numbed my perception of catastrophe, it doesn't feel real unless I am there, otherwise the sadness I feel is just the result of my own mental fabrications.

I suppose what is on my mind is that many people around me making themselves feel sad unnecessarily and thinking it is the right thing to do when really we quite enjoy the drama of it all. If I am not sad i will not be sad, I'd rather choose to scrape together whatever true metta is there and see it as it is, buddha said after death comes rebirth and destruction is such a brutal form of creation. I think I should still go there, only then will I truly understand and feel true metta for a country in turmoil, theres no point of another guest house losing its customers when the economy has already taken a beating.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 11:27:02 AM by Alexanderjohn »

Stefan

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Re: Japan
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2011, 11:28:35 AM »
My family have actually been planning a trip to Kyoto supposedly leaving on Friday.
...
I wish to go to Japan and feel it all for myself, see a country in turmoil and do my best to hand out some metta. I'm pretty sure it'll just make the situation worse if another guesthouse loses its customers, the economy has already taken a beating, life needs to carry on right?

I understand your distress ... that's a tough decision. If you go there you should be prepared to loose control over your vacation and end up deeply involved in that catastrophy and the personal suffering of persons you actually meet. On the other hand, maybe you won't get in touch with it at all. I think you could go (provided you are not too scared of nuclear fallout), but first check your self if you really are able to go all the way.

Metta, Stefan

PS.: I wouldn't take my family to Japan right now. But that's only my opinion.
anicca

rideforever

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Re: Japan
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2011, 12:10:15 PM »
I think that if you want to cancel or change to trip to avoid nuclear fallout, then that is a good choice.  Send Japan some money if you like, and you can always go when the coast is clear.


Matthew

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Re: Japan
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2011, 01:06:00 PM »
Alexanderjohn,

The people of Japan think the Gov is lying about the gravity of the situation, six reactors face potential meltdown that is admitted and people who are in Japan are queueing up to leave. I would not want to join that queue. If I had specialist skills and experience to help in this situation I'd be there but I don't. rideforever's suggestion is a good one - especially if you pay the guesthouse owner direct so the $ doesn't get eaten by an admin heavy NGO.

If you do go be well.

Warmly,

Matthew
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Alexanderjohn

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Re: Japan
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2011, 11:07:41 PM »
Thanks for the advice, i do get the feeling Japan is trying to save face rather than admit to the possible magnitude of the situation, cooling down nuclear fission by injecting water seems a bit flimsy to me.

Quote
I think that if you want to cancel or change to trip to avoid nuclear fallout, then that is a good choice.  Send Japan some money if you like, and you can always go when the coast is clear.

Would still like to go but would hate to add to all the problems if I get in the middle of the giant mess that could potentially occur. See how it develops,

Thanks again,
Alex.

Stefan

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Re: Japan
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2011, 06:42:21 AM »


Thanks for the advice, i do get the feeling Japan is trying to save face rather than admit to the possible magnitude of the situation, cooling down nuclear fission by injecting water seems a bit flimsy to me.


You are right there, "saving face" is definitely a problem in information transfer and also organisation of international help, I'm afraid. The fight for cooling the reactor is desperate. What they are doing has to be admired in many ways. But it's the "last hope" activity, I wish them success ... they have to succeed!

Metta to this world and beyond,

Stefan
anicca

Daiho

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Re: Japan
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2011, 07:50:47 AM »
This report has been making the rounds on the internet and suggests there is little to worry about for humans outside a 30 km area around the nuclear plant. 

http://www.facebook.com/notes/paul-atkinson/japan-nuclear-update-british-embassy/10150111611771235

I wouldn't be worried about visiting Kyoto at this time, but it's a country I know well.  I might be more anxious about visiting if I didn't know anyone and didn't speak the language.

If you go, then thank you.  It will mean a lot to many  that you have confidence and are willing to spend your time and money. 

All the best.

Stefan

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Re: Japan
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2011, 09:45:41 AM »


This report has been making the rounds on the internet and suggests there is little to worry about for humans outside a 30 km area around the nuclear plant.


I'd file that under "don't create too much panic" ... they may be right ONLY if they manage to stop the processes and close the reactor(s) fast. I hope they'll succeed when the electricity will be back. Well, if Alexanderjohn finds himself prepared, he will be very welcome, I'm sure. I have been to a comparatively small catastrophy area last autumn (high water washing away houses, streets ect), the people there were very thankful that we came.

Metta to you,

Stefan
anicca

rideforever

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Re: Japan
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2011, 09:51:10 AM »
Yes the British are very proud of not panicking - the truth is they are just very repressed and proud of it.

The US has an 80km exclusion zone and is flying people out with the military, the French call it 'somewhere between a disaster and a major disaster', the Germans are looking to end nuclear power permanently ... and the UK ... 'don't worry everything is fine' !  Yeah right - 6 reactors are in partial meltdown and anyone who works on them will be dead in 6 months, no rad readings have been released in 24 hours because it's out of control.

The British people don't do anything, they remember IK Brunel for building the railways a hundred years ago, because since then nothing has happened.  It's the perfect place to come and make lots of money because no-one is going to say anything.

Fallout doesn't obey statistics, these are just average readings ... some places may be way more some places way less - but you don't know what is happening to you, but if you are dying of throat cancer in 20 years you might wonder - too late you didn't do anything.  And the government doesn't want you to panic so it tries to reassure you ... but the smart rich people have already left if they can.

During analysis of survivors of aircraft crashes it was shown that the ruthless people who jumped over others to get out first where far more likely to survive.  Those that panicked survived - that is the evolutionary point of panic.

If I was on Honshu I would definitely be going south for a month or so, take a holiday.


Stefan

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Re: Japan
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2011, 09:08:12 AM »


... the Germans are looking to end nuclear power permanently ...


they pretend to. But in three months there are elections in Germany, so better check back later ...  ;)
right now politicians as well as "experts" keep telling us "our powerplants are save".

Maths teaches us that highly complex systems cannot be predicted to 100% since the interaction of all those tiny factors cannot be pressed into one mathematic modell that fits all conditions. In other words: We cannot say how save they are, we only know they are not safe. Every other statement is a lie.
anicca

Morning Dew

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Re: Japan
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2011, 01:04:26 PM »
Quote
In other words: We cannot say how save they are, we only know they are not safe. Every other statement is a lie.

In other words: Nothing is permanent!

Che

Stefan

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Re: Japan
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2011, 02:06:09 PM »

Quote
In other words: We cannot say how save they are, we only know they are not safe. Every other statement is a lie.

In other words: Nothing is permanent!


Right, nothing is permanent. That is common "buddhistic" experience. But normally not known by the scientific establishment and politicians. And I don't blame them for not having a buddhistic background. BUT they have those sciences that tell them exactly the same thing nowadays: everything is in flux, nothing is permanent, "yes" is not opposite to "no" ect.! Still they wouldn't listen, and that's what I blame them for.

Ah, ignorance is impermanent as well ...  :)
anicca

Matthew

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Re: Japan
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2011, 03:15:49 PM »
The Japanese Govt and the operators of this plant have a history of lies and cover ups regarding untoward incidents at the plant going back many years.

Wikileaks tells us that is SOP for all Governments.

Anyone who can leave is doing so. Flights out are fully booked. The Japanese do not believe they are being given full disclosure by their Gov. Additionally today the Chinese Gov called for full and transparent reporting by the Japanese authorities, inherent in which demand is that they do not believe it to be presently the case. They are also evacuating all Chinese Citizens from the whole of Japan.

Today the alert level was officially raised to 5 (out of 7). Respected experts have been stating for two days that this event is already between 6 and 7 on that scale.

The guys working at the plant to save the situation have committed suicide. Radiation effects will kill them soon. They are heroic (if they knew the facts) - laying down their lives for the greater good. That they are all age over 50 implies they at least were told the truth and knowingly chose to act this way.

They are paying the price for Government lies and shoddy thinking that is the prevailing state of our cultures. Secrecy is used for many ends. Few of them are truly beneficial to the people in the long run.
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Daiho

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Re: Japan
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2011, 04:51:21 PM »
Some opinion to the contrary.  I'm not endorsing any, but thought some alternative views might be in order.  I get nervous whenever media opinion appears unanimous.


Japan nuclear threat: The tsunami is the bigger tragedy
By David Spiegelhalter
Professor of the Public Understanding of Risk, Cambridge University
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12785274


Why what's happened in Japan should be an ENDORSEMENT of nuclear power
By MICHAEL HANLON, SCIENCE EDITOR
Last updated at 1:44 PM on 19th March 2011
 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1367289/Japan-earthquake-tsunami-Are-right-worry-nuclear-angle.html#ixzz1H45wxHQU

rideforever

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Re: Japan
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2011, 05:19:21 PM »
God this crap really angers me - you can see my comment under the first article by the way ! These friking "scientists" will kill us all.


-> the tsunami HAS happened, the nuclear disaster has not - so we should concentrate on the later

-> nuclear is a disaster that keeps on giving - once uranium and plutonium leech into the groundwater, land and ocean, you are looking at an increase in cancers for the next 100 million years.  It is a irreperable, irreversible, increase in mortality for the lifetime of our species.  20,000 people dying is going to look like nothing at the end of that time.

Some portions of Honshu will be fenced off until the end of time and never again will man be able to live on them.  No human civilization has ever friked up this much.

-> 4 (F O U R) reactors are now at DEFCON 5 - each one equivalent to the Three Mile Island disaster.  Not one reactor but F O U R.  And this is an endorsement of nuclear power - christ - this is straight forward insanity. 

-> If you ingest either through breathing or eating any of this stuff, the plutonium will sit in your body tissues x-raying your body every day you until you die ... and if you have kids, well ... the chances of them being affected is also there.  Children can be born with malformed brains and small sized heads.

-> The Japanese are about the best prepared, smartest, and calmest people on this planet ... and even they are so out of control that 4 reactors and 2 used fuel ponds are right now blowing cancer over the mainland, whilst 50 kamikaze are forced to kill themselves, and desperate firefighters are water bombing cracked buildings to save mankind.

Truly, if you think this is ok, you are insane.


-> But yes the public's reaction is overboard because many people think our whole planet is going the wrong way, and now is the time to say something.



Stefan

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Re: Japan
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2011, 05:39:01 PM »
Rideforever was faster, but I post mine, too ...


Some opinion to the contrary.  I'm not endorsing any, but thought some alternative views might be in order.  I get nervous whenever media opinion appears unanimous.


Alternative views are always helpful. But in this case I don't quite understand the authors. You can clean up after a tsunami or an earthquake, but you can't clean up radioactivity. It is quite possible that nobody will be able to live there any more. Fukushima area would be dead. No rebuild! And even more: while Tsunami will be history comparatively fast, the nuclear catastrophy will remain happening over a long period. I don't want to go into detail, the horrible health problems caused by radioactivity are a well known scientific fact. And even more: the nuclear deaster is slowing the help for the victims of the tsunami and makes it a "small" problem compared to the danger of high radioactivity drifting over Tokyo.

We live on a planet, we can be hit by earthquake, tsunami or meteor, that's nature happening to us as it happened to the dinos. We cannot do anything about it. But the nuclear desaster is manmade stupidity. We could have done something about it! Well, I hope and pray that now they have electricity in Fukushima they will be able to stop this desaster.
And then log off all those nuclear plants on this planet as fast as possible.

Matthew said somewhere else that he thinks the 30000 children dying daily are the bigger catastrophy.
Since I am a multiple personality I have three opinions on that:
1) Yes, cries the family father, YES!
2) No, because nuclear wasteland is an area where children aren't born at all.
3) Both are only the side effects of the real catastrophy which is taking place in human mind.

Metta to Japan, Metta to this planet.

Stefan
anicca

Stefan

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Re: Japan
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2011, 05:43:32 PM »
PS.: I read the embassy of finland was transferred to Hiroshima. Not only I wondered wether this is some kind of statement?
anicca

Jhana4

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Re: Japan
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2011, 06:36:38 PM »
I used to think the Japanese were more conscientious and disciplined as a group.

Then I watched the news.

Yes, the engineers working on the plant and will most likely give up their lives for other people.  Well, in the U.S., we have the 9/11 responders

Japan also decided to build that nuclear power plant, in an earthquake zone, after the design was deemed flawed in 1972, before the plant was built.   A prominent Japanese business group has been spouting off in the news saying the fact that the plant didn't completely collapse into rubble shows how superior the technology is.

Goodbye noble Japanese,  hello ordinary people Japanese with human failings.


Stefan

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Re: Japan
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2011, 07:43:19 PM »
It is not a japanese failure but a failure of mankind, and the fact that it struck first in Japan is bad luck for them, not due to a special fault made in Japan only. It could have been here in Germany as well. The geology is stabler here, but still there's vulcanic activity ... recently sleeping, but noone knows when it might blow off again.
But they built nuclear plants here and tell us they are safe because it's sooo unlikely to happen, isn't it?

I very much admire the discipline they keep in Japan. In Germany it would be panic all over.
I wish them the very best.

Stefan
anicca

Matthew

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Re: Japan
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2011, 07:57:27 PM »
....
3) Both are only the side effects of the real catastrophy which is taking place in human mind.
....

Stefan,

Exactly true.

Matthew
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rideforever

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Re: Japan
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2011, 10:16:06 PM »
In one way a catastrophe is taking place ... but perhaps this phase will lead to a more enlightened people, the darkest part of the night being just before dawn.

In the past there may have been many cultures closer to the divine then we are, but clearly they weren't completely stable ... and in fact instability is required for there to be a possibility to be in touch with the divine.

If you are 'sensitive' person and can see the carnage, then you might be in despair.  But is this is also a kind of blindness and clinging ?  Perhaps we should just see the task at hand, and get our hands dirty.

Instead of wishing we lived in a 'pleasant world' (whatever or whenever that existed), we just say 'this is how it is', I will do my best to be a beacon of truth, and start the work.

We also like to think that nature is soft and friendly ... but meet a grizly bear out in the woods and he will tear your head off in one swipe and eat you for breakfast.  This doesn't mean life is depressing or violent, it is just how it is ... and ... we are very confused.  Well, at least I am very confused !!

Inside us is also a powerful raging tiger.  It is not bad or good, it is just how it is.  But I think we feel guilty about it, and block its energies, and then we don't feel alive - but feel regret, sadness, despair etc...

No mater how screwed up the world is, there is always plenty of opportunity to love and be loved.  And to be in contact with the divine.


Morning Dew

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Re: Japan
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2011, 07:18:20 AM »
Quote
It is not a japanese failure but a failure of mankind

Our whole human society is based on Living in Desire and Aversion. It is considered Normal. We build enormous walls to secure ourselves in form of money, technology, law, etc...

Even though considered human to feel for others suffering i also feel that we humans are overpoulating the planet and by doing this we are putting all other life form at risk (consumerism). I feel nature will find the way to wipe us down soon if we dont change our habits. But it might be already too late now. Maybe move to another planet and use that one up totaly too.

It would be more natural if we humans would be on a food chain list of another specie. That would keep our numbers down and would for sure keep us more alert, living in the now aware of all that is.

As i mentioned elsewere i felt more alive when i lived in the warzone. Not the actual fight but just living on mauntains without any plans for the future, and my life was at stake any second.

Friendly Che

 

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