Author Topic: Struggling in calm abiding meditation  (Read 27808 times)

NickAWilson

Re: Struggling in calm abiding meditation
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2011, 06:21:06 PM »
Quote
After a very long hard workout it is much easier to relax because you don't have so much nervous energy.

I agree. I experience my very best sessions after Yoga. Even 20mins does it for me, but a full hour is even better. You get the added benefit of linking body to breath, so when you sit, you're already half there...

I'm going to try it the other way round some time. I did just a few simple arm raises after a particularly good meditation and it was quite an astonishing experience. Rather what I think Patanjali was was thinking in the first place...

Andrew

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    • Letting Go.
Re: Struggling in calm abiding meditation
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2011, 01:48:02 AM »

Also don't worry about 'doing it right'. Zen Buddhism teaches 'just sitting'. Just sitting is just sitting, no ifs, ands or buts. Just sit. If you just sit for the time you have decided, there you are, mission accomplished. Nothing else to be done.

I think what I'm doing at the moment falls more into the Zen tradition. Although, as usual, I've gone beyond myself in this thread, I can see that it is good to give all you know, or think you know even if you feel embarrassed later!  :-[   :-[   Why?, I've learned something! Happy days ;D

4) You know you are doing calm abiding practice right when you feel calm or even bliss during the meditation and are left with this sense afterwards.

Warmly,
Matthew

Perhaps I need to get back into the zen reading until I find a out how to relax as described. Good luck ramelec, and thanks for the thread.

love

andy
getting it done

Rocket

Re: Struggling in calm abiding meditation
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2011, 02:05:42 PM »
I have anxiety disorder and slight depression, I started calm abiding meditation but it's been a big challenge  :((

Here is one bit of truth:  95% of the problems people have with meditation is trying too hard .....    intense effort instead of relaxing into a stabilized state.  If our minds are too agitated we cannot make progress.

If one is not getting the mind stabilized,  ie if your mind is just wandering all over constantly the entire time no progress is being made.

Some of us are much better off quieting "high amplitude" afflicted emotional states thru other means ....  some psychotherapeutic techniques are oriented to this.    Then when we get "the biggies" in our mind to quiet down Shamatha practice that really goes somewhere becomes within reach. 

Speaking from experience: it is possible to make very rapid progress into Samadhi and Vipassana with good guidance.

Check out Alan Wallace,  sbinstitue.com.

He has many mp3 files available at that site and is clearly the best trained westerner who is teaching Shamatha practice.  By far.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 02:10:21 PM by Rocket »

Morning Dew

Re: Struggling in calm abiding meditation
« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2011, 08:46:52 AM »
Quote
Some of us are much better off quieting "high amplitude" afflicted emotional states thru other means ....  some psychotherapeutic techniques are oriented to this.

I calmed my very deluded self alot before starting with Shamatha by practicing Ki-breathing for almost 6 month. BUT, Ki-breathing couldn't give the insight into the actual nature of my deluded self. I couldn't see that this self was not real but just a repetitive CD running in my conditioned mind. The mind still had great impact on my life and still remained very angry and agitated.

This is where Calm-abiding Shamatha helped ALOT! Through calm abiding Awareness I have witnessed the SELF running wild on its own and me helpless not able to do anything at first. I could see how suffering comes to be.

With time AND PRACTICE I felt more and more disconnected from the deluded self which still is running wild but has no true power over the conscious/awake me as much. The more I notice the delusional self through calm awareness the more Awake I become.
Becoming a Buddha/Awakened is not something which happens in ONE particular moment (I feel) like enlightenment but something which is created like a pullover with each and every single stitch we made, the path is not the goal but each and every single step we make, today we awake once, tomorrow we awake twice, the 3rd day 3 times, etc... with practice we awake more and more BUT do not FABRICATE anything and let "the biggies" be just that :)  and simply go back to calm abiding not thinking that Shamatha needs some special preparation. Shamatha is the actual preparation for the Insight and Bliss to happen.
The sitting practice is of no big importance but the actual life off the cushion where one clearly sees the change happening. My siting sessions are still very chatty and noisy but that doesn't mater to me anymore and I clearly feel bliss and calm sliding into my off the cushion life all day long which is where it matters most :)
Let the biggies stay on the cushion, and let the Bliss enter the actual life where we interact with our selves and others the most.

The practice is important VERY SO, but we do it for the sake of the ride not for the sake of some fabricated "perfect" sitting.

SO, please Jeffrey my friend, try and get your strengths together and put it into the daily practice for a few month not taking the deluded self too seriously. It is NOT about calming the ego self but about separating one awake self from the deluded ignorant self that creates the suffering by simply being aware of all that takes place without engaging into it, or if engaged by disengaging from it and going back to calming the body with each in and out breath.
Please STOP calming the ego self and calm the body instead. Just notice the ego self without taking it seriously and let it be as it is without engaging into it. Being annoyed by it IS engaging you see. So please try to notice this and disengage by not taking it seriously.
We engage each time we Desire or Reject thoughts, emotions, sensations. Just let it be while sitting and ONLY come back to CALMING THE BODY WITH EACH IN AND OUT BREATH.

It will all be good my friend you will see just keep sitting :)

Friendly Che




ramelec

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Re: Struggling in calm abiding meditation
« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2011, 10:54:41 AM »
Che may I know who taught you the calm abiding meditation? is it from this forum?

I appreciate if u can help me answer the open questions. Thx

Morning Dew

Re: Struggling in calm abiding meditation
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2011, 09:49:48 AM »
Yes Jeffrey I learned it from this forum. I practice Shamatha as suggested by Matthew (user name;The Irreverent Buddhist).

Friendly Che

Matthew

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Re: Struggling in calm abiding meditation
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2011, 12:07:19 AM »
Yes Jeffrey I learned it from this forum. I practice Shamatha as suggested by Matthew (user name;The Irreverent Buddhist).

Friendly Che

Dear CheGoodMorningBuddha,

You mean Matthew AKA "The Irreverent Buddhist" ;)

Jeffrey: sit, breathe, feel your body, relax and keep doing that. Do it as often as you can for as long as you feel relaxed, be that one minute or the whole day.

Warmly,

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

ramelec

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Re: Struggling in calm abiding meditation
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2011, 04:00:10 AM »
Matthew thank you for your advise. Sometimes I feel a sense of sadness without thoughts but I don't know the real reason. If this happens do I acknowledge and let it go?

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Member
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: Struggling in calm abiding meditation
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2011, 07:19:11 AM »
Jeffrey,

Just let everything be. Force nothing away, draw nothing to you, just let it all be. At this stage you just want to learn to sit and breathe and relax. If the sadness is there let it be there, right now if you try letting it go you may end up forcing it away, a form of hypnosis and very unhealthy way to start being with what is.

Warmly,

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

ramelec

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    • NEWBIE Mindfullness of Breath
Re: Struggling in calm abiding meditation
« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2011, 12:27:13 AM »
Jeffrey,

Just let everything be. Force nothing away, draw nothing to you, just let it all be. At this stage you just want to learn to sit and breathe and relax. If the sadness is there let it be there, right now if you try letting it go you may end up forcing it away, a form of hypnosis and very unhealthy way to start being with what is.

Warmly,

Matthew

As I understand if its thoughts acknowledge and let it go. But for feeling n emotions what is the best method? I suffer anxiety disorder + slight dep.

I just want to ensure I relax and do the right thing. Can I move my body or readjust during meditation?

Thanks

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Member
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: Struggling in calm abiding meditation
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2011, 12:35:45 AM »
Breathe, relax, be comfortable. Try not to lean forwards - it helps to imagine your head is hanging from a hook in the sky. Breathe and relax. Yes you can move. Most importantly learn to relax through breathing and calming the body. Do not force the breath or force quiet on your mind. Just breathe and be.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

ramelec

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    • NEWBIE Mindfullness of Breath
Re: Struggling in calm abiding meditation
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2011, 02:15:59 AM »
Breathe, relax, be comfortable. Try not to lean forwards - it helps to imagine your head is hanging from a hook in the sky. Breathe and relax. Yes you can move. Most importantly learn to relax through breathing and calming the body. Do not force the breath or force quiet on your mind. Just breathe and be.

Question: But for feeling n emotions (but no thoughts) what is the best method - do we acknowledge or what should we do? PS I added you on skype. thanks!

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Member
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: Struggling in calm abiding meditation
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2011, 09:56:27 AM »
Yes, do not deny them, and do not fall headlong into them. For these early stages in your practice the fruits are calm and concentration. You can establish those quite quickly with regular practice of returning attention to the body as you breathe - it may take a while, but you'll get there. As you become calmer and you learn to concentrate then you can look at these things more closely and with some equanimity, allowing deeper exploration based on a stable mind.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

ramelec

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    • NEWBIE Mindfullness of Breath
Re: Struggling in calm abiding meditation
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2011, 10:14:25 AM »
Yes, do not deny them, and do not fall headlong into them. For these early stages in your practice the fruits are calm and concentration. You can establish those quite quickly with regular practice of returning attention to the body as you breathe - it may take a while, but you'll get there. As you become calmer and you learn to concentrate then you can look at these things more closely and with some equanimity, allowing deeper exploration based on a stable mind.

If I understand correctly that means that acknowledge them and go back to the breathing?

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Member
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: Struggling in calm abiding meditation
« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2011, 10:16:35 AM »
Yes. Don't deny them nor follow them. Be aware of their presence and then relax back into awareness of the bodily sensations as you breathe.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

ramelec

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Re: Struggling in calm abiding meditation
« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2011, 10:42:38 AM »
Yes. Don't deny them nor follow them. Be aware of their presence and then relax back into awareness of the bodily sensations as you breathe.

What about positive thoughts as well as negative thoughts that crops up?

I have a chance to fall asleep during meditation so I guess I should avoid them. In this case how to do it?



Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Member
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: Struggling in calm abiding meditation
« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2011, 12:33:13 PM »
Treat all thoughts, emotions and arisings in the same way. Do not judge positive/negative, do not use force, let them be. Relax.

If you really need to sleep then sleep. If you want to avoid sleepiness in meditation then 1) keep awake and aware of the body moment to moment - there is a lot going on once you start to notice, 2) if you find yourself falling sleepy check your posture is nice and upright using your back muscles for support, 3) if you meditate with eyes shut and feel sleepy then open them a little bit and look at the floor about 1 metre in front of you, 4) check that you have not started very shallow breathing which can reduce oxygen levels in the blood and induce sleepiness.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Morning Dew

Re: Struggling in calm abiding meditation
« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2011, 07:52:00 AM »
Hi Jeffrey  :)

how is your practice going?
I see our members giving you a helping hand with some good advices  :)  good man.
Keep at it, it will all turn to be just fine.

Friendly Che

ramelec

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Re: Struggling in calm abiding meditation
« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2011, 11:12:44 AM »
Thank you to you and Matthew for being great help. I put the practice but I still get anxious (on med) and fear :'( (mind play tricks) whenever I am at work. I hope samatha meditation will bring the inner meaning of joy and happiness (true understanding of life) which I am still seeking for and then help others.  Great photos on your trip.

Does samatha meditation is the path toward jhana?

Morning Dew

Re: Struggling in calm abiding meditation
« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2011, 12:00:44 PM »
Quote
Does samatha meditation is the path toward jhana?

Yes, Shamatha or Calm-abiding will lead to Jhana states. Jhanas will not happen if you try to force it, so please remind your self that Shamatha is about letting go of clinging to Desire and Aversion and not about clinging to Desiring Jhana states by forcing it by wanting it to happen.
Focus on feeling the body sensations and on relaxing the body with each in and out breath  :) OK  :) Notice, Let go and Relax.

Quote
I still get anxious (on med) and fear

When ever you feel fear or anxious feeling try to be aware of it and at that very time start relaxing the body with each in and out breath even if you are not sitting. When I feel anxious at work I go to the toilet and sit there and meditate for 5-10 minutes, after that I feel very calm and relaxed  :) Try it and see how it feels.

Quote
Great photos on your trip.


Thank you Jeffrey.

Friendly Che

Andrew

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    • friends tell me things, sometimes I listen.
    • Letting Go.
Re: Struggling in calm abiding meditation
« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2011, 12:36:53 PM »
I hope samatha meditation will bring the inner meaning of joy and happiness (true understanding of life) which I am still seeking for and then help others. 

Hi again Jeffrey,

I think it will do it's part. Keep in mind that it is one of three important things, Practice, Truth, Community.  All are important in achieving your goal. I have noticed (from my experience, and watching others) that meditation alone can become a 'spiritual magic trick' with the more one achieves, the more superior one can think of themselves. Practice twice a day, keep your common sense and give support to those on the forum. Practice, Truth, Community. (Buddhist call them; Buddha, Dhamma, Sanga)

If one is missing, joy and happiness will only happen when you are practising (sitting), the other two let it permeate your life.  This is my understanding.

love

andy

getting it done

ramelec

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Re: Struggling in calm abiding meditation
« Reply #46 on: March 03, 2011, 01:25:09 PM »
I read that jhana state is deep concentration?  If calm abiding is not about concentration maybe someone can please enlighten me?

ramelec

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Re: Struggling in calm abiding meditation
« Reply #47 on: March 03, 2011, 02:12:48 PM »
It seems my mind keep on talking! When neditating

Morning Dew

Re: Struggling in calm abiding meditation
« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2011, 02:25:02 PM »
Jeffrey my mind is also talking all the time and I started meditating 1 year ago  :)
With practice I have developed equanimity and compassion towards the talking mind. It doesn't bother me that much any more. I cling to it less and less. The Mind Is the way it Is and we can't force it to shut up. Let it talk. You keep remembering to disengage from the thinking process and go back to the whole body breathing relaxation.
Remember, remember, remember  :) to disengage, to go back to the relaxation breathing and so on. Do not be hard on yourself, be gentle.
Be patient it does take time for the change to manifest in your actual life. Keep at it.

Che

ramelec

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    • NEWBIE Mindfullness of Breath
Re: Struggling in calm abiding meditation
« Reply #49 on: March 03, 2011, 02:29:21 PM »
So u mean if it talk let it talk. Only recognize and move on with thoughts n emotions

 

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