Author Topic: Questions about certain things about meditation  (Read 4673 times)

Hazmatac

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Questions about certain things about meditation
« on: February 20, 2011, 06:51:12 PM »
Recently when I have been meditating I have been experiencing what seems like, I see my eyelids behind my eyes, and just the plain (almost plane) aspect of my existence called seeing with nothing added or subtracted feels like it could be too much. I feel like I could completely mess up my minds expected operation which I feel it needs because this is something radically different in terms of how I function.

I have also had a couple times where there have been bad cases of depersonalization, like my mind is off and I am just viewing reality from senses and there is no me there is just what I am staring at, which is way too overwhelming.

Also I have felt what can be described as my life force being cut off making me feel real bad, due to the awareness.

Am I doing something wrong? I was thinking of heading over to some kind of meditation center to try to get their advice.

Also, I have felt like I could go insane. I have heard reports of people going insane from opening their chakras and I feel it might be something like that. Alright thank you.

One more thing: in Mindfulness in Plain English, Bhante talks about the point of meditation is opening up the 'wisdom eye.' What is that?

Stefan

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Re: Questions about certain things about meditation
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2011, 08:52:43 PM »

and there is no me there is just what I am staring at, which is way too overwhelming.


I sometimes thought: "Why are we so blind?"
I came to the answer: " Because we keep our eyes shut with force."
We are simply afraid of reality.

The experience you are describing is shaking the fundaments of the self.
It is a part of the way, though. But maybe (from what you write) a part that you should take slowly and carefully?

Reality is a huge thing to stare at. When I come to similar points, I don't go further and I don't flee. I try to keep my equanimity for a short period (because it's the best remedy against insanity) and then withdraw slowly. Afterwards I do some down-to-earth-work to ground myself again. There's nothing like scrubbing the kitchen to get back to normality.  ;)  And then I go back to meditation until I reach the point where things get too overwhelming again ... stop there, stay there for a short period with my concentration focussed on equanimity, then withdraw again slowly , then scrub bathroom ...

And better not try to describe too much what you experience. It will lead to paranoia like "life force being cut off".  I am sure that you experience something unpleasant. What is it? Sure not your life force being cut off ... you are still posting. Maybe it is the unpleasantness of unexpectedly being hit in the face by the inexpressible. Don't worry, it only feels like going insane.

But you are not going insane.
You are awaking from insanity, really.
It's why we sit and meditate.

Metta to You!
anicca

Quardamon

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Re: Questions about certain things about meditation
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2011, 09:55:58 PM »
Hello Hazmatac,

You got a wonderful answer from Stefan, I see.
@ Stefan: thank you.

Meanwhile, I was writing my reaction and I will still post it here. At least you will feel supported, I hope.

Sounds like you meet the fact, that the mind has always been functioning in a certain way, and you never realised or thought that it could function in an other way. Is that right?
If so, that will be shocking. Like you realise that you are not as you always thought you were.
That is O.K. Just allow it to be as it is now.

Finding that you do not (or did not) know who you are can feel like depersonalisation.
It is wise to look, off the cushion, if there is a reason for depersonalisation in the psychological sense: Could there be a reason - clear, and right in front of your nose - why you do not want to be where you are. In terms of where you llive, in terms of what you do daily. In other words: Are you safe, physically?

On the other hand, a basic saying in buddhism is: "There is no self". I have had moments on the cushion, that I felt as someone else, or in a situation that I never was in. The way I understand vipassana meditation is that it is about awareness and how you carry your awareness / relate to your awareness. It is hardly about the things that you are aware about.

(I must say, I love to talk about unusual things that happened  on the cushion with my wife. She has a very broad knowledge of life and the psyche. So she might give me comments like things symbolising such-and-such, or connecting to our friend or relative so-and-so.)

 . . .  life force being cut off   . . .   do you feel that literally, like a knife cutting under your feet or buttocks? Or is it a figure of speech?
I do not understand what you mean by: "making me feel bad, due to the awareness". Do you feel that you are a bad person? Or do you mean it is a very unpleasant feeling? And I do not understand the role or awareness here.

You meet things that are very unusual for you. One of the options people have in such a situation is going insane - you have seen that right, in my opinion. In what you describe, I do not see that you are going insane. You are dealing with it in a healthy way. You are asking advice, hearing reports, considering going to a meditation centre - all very healthy.
Please do not make this the centre of you attention all the time. It is good to have work, family or chores of daily life that take your attention. Walking and actively looking around. A teacher of mine would say: "If you have your hand 20 inches away from you, you can look at it. If you have your hand 2 inches from your face, you cannot look at it. Do not dive into the experiences that you have. Just be aware of them, from a distance."

In my opinion, it could maybe help to meditate in a group because you share energy among one another. You process things of others that you con process better than them and they process things in you that you cannot process. (If there is no-one that can handle your things, than they might throw you out. Nothing dramatic.) (I am not really sure if it works so, and it might differ per group.)

Your question is in fact, if you are doing something wrong. I do not know, because I do not know your practice. And probably my knowledge is not broad enough to answer that question. Maybe you posted earlier what you are doing and I forgot. (My memory is not what it used to be, if remember well. ;) )

Be well,

Quardamon

Matthew

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Re: Questions about certain things about meditation
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2011, 05:37:27 PM »
Rob,

Stefan and Quardamon have both given excellent advices.

All I will add is to remember this whole process is about befriending and loving yourself - and the world around you. For some of us - who start from a point of deep distrust due to childhood experiences - the road can be a rocky one at times. Find whatever shoes or walking aids you need to keep going. That may be simplifying your practice, sitting with a group or finding a local teacher you trust - or something else entirely.

If you want to talk on skype PM me.

Warm regards,

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Hazmatac

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Re: Questions about certain things about meditation
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2011, 02:14:05 PM »
Hi, thank you all for the advice and support. I was especially helped when I read "do not make it the center of your attention all the time," although it is not helping with what I wrote particularly but with another issue in my life that has really been my focus around 90% of the time.

What I mean by lifeforce. You can do a search and find it as one of the mental factors Bhante talks about in Minfulness in Plain English, and I've heard about Ki, or Chi, being an essential component in life which is some kind of energy.

I felt this being cut off. Imagining it has channels, it is like the channel completely gets blocked and I feel an aspect of my soul completely fading away. Or like it completely cuts off any energy to live I suppose was another effect of it, like 'because I don't feel this energy flowing I now feel like a (big) part of me is dying. Something like that.

Jeeprs

Re: Questions about certain things about meditation
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2011, 09:53:40 AM »
I would follow up on the idea of going to a teaching centre. I can't add anything much to what the other contributors have said, but I will say, the mind is very tricky. It is possible you are experiencing some resistance that turn up as these feelings of dread and danger. They are giving you a very good reason to stop practising, right? Just be mindful, and also, have faith that nothing bad will happen. But I would advise you to talk it over in person with a teacher, if possible.

Quardamon

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Re: Questions about certain things about meditation
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2011, 06:07:58 PM »
Hello Hazmatac,

From the fact that you are writing I gather that you are alive. ;)
And I suppose your soul is with you now. Correct me if I am wrong. ;)

  . . .  and I feel an aspect of my soul completely fading away.

If you are safe now, this feeling could be a remembrance. (I suppose I am influenced by the hints of Matthew in this.) An other possibility I see, in theory, is that you are working strongly against your own life force, like by hating yourself or forbidding yourself to live.
In both these cases we are talking about something that probably has been in place for many years. And from what you write it is obvious, that it is something very basic.
What I am suggesting is that it would be unwise to change this in a few days or weeks: that would take with it a quick change in understanding who you are / what you are.

  . . .  like 'because I don't feel this energy flowing I now feel like a (big) part of me is dying. Something like that.

It is quite something to acknowledge that this is part of your life experience. Just to experience this can be a shock, I suppose. Even if you are not dying.

When I was 25 I did relaxation therapy based on yoga. The teacher told me that she felt that my father had strangled me when I was a baby. I met this theme now and then and four years ago I could, on the cushion, feel his thumbs on my throat and feel me stop breathing. (Very subtle feelings - my here-and-now bodily feeling was stronger, but more in the background of my attention.) I am 60 now.
What I mean to say: It took it's time. Don't push the river, it flows by itself. (That is the title of a book I never read. So the joke is not mine.) Rest assured that I did not spent 35 years grumbling on how awful life can be. Yes it can, and still it is adequate to read poetry, and to feel the wind in your hair now and then.

Enjoy your life please. Life deserves that honour.

Quardamon

Matthew

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Re: Questions about certain things about meditation
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2011, 12:13:01 AM »
....
I felt this being cut off. Imagining it has channels, it is like the channel completely gets blocked and I feel an aspect of my soul completely fading away. Or like it completely cuts off any energy to live I suppose was another effect of it, like 'because I don't feel this energy flowing I now feel like a (big) part of me is dying. Something like that.

Rob,

Just relax into the sitting and mindfully breathe in and out. Keep it simple. Really simple. What you are describing could be a form of dissociation. Just sit and breathe and relax and seek nothing from your meditation but allow calm to descend upon you inch by inch.

Warmly,

Mattthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Hazmatac

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Re: Questions about certain things about meditation
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2011, 12:12:27 AM »
Thanks for the advice everyone

chintan

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Re: Questions about certain things about meditation
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2011, 11:19:29 AM »
Excellent responses from all others.

One more thing: in Mindfulness in Plain English, Bhante talks about the point of meditation is opening up the 'wisdom eye.' What is that?

Hazmatac - this is the mythical third eye - also called as Shiva's third eye - as per Hindu / Vedic teachings this gives the ability to see reality as it is beyond the illusionary veil of Maya.. it also corresponds to the sixth chakra. I personally don't understand these things beyond some theoritical and have not followed this school but there are some similarities in what we practice as Vipassana - Samtha and  Yoga practitioners who practice with a clear objective of awakening their Kundalini and Chakras.

You feeling low on life energy could just be your meditation practice uncovering some rough patches. I have felt the same for days at a stretch and it also has a linkage to how my work / personal life are faring..

Extreme Metta..

Alexanderjohn

Re: Questions about certain things about meditation
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2011, 08:04:17 AM »
sorry if this is  little off-topic, the whole third eye thing is something I forget to remember to post about. Anyone ever get some kind of pressure or tension inbetween their eyes whilst sitting? Don't know much about chakras but there are definitely often feelings of tension inbetween the eyes and the crown. Interested in the many explanations people may have for this.

Jeeprs

Re: Questions about certain things about meditation
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2011, 08:39:10 AM »
I would be skeptical about it. I think it could be psychosomatic -  if you believe such a thing can happen, then you will feel it. Mind is very suggestible. This is not to say that there isn't a third eye, but my interpretation of it is 'the eye of the heart',  learning to see with the eye of compassion. I am sure that is completely real.  But  I am not psychic, and maybe psychics do have those experiences.

Andrew

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Re: Questions about certain things about meditation
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2011, 09:24:24 AM »
I definitely experienced it, but would i have if i had never heard of it before? Hard to tell. It probably lines up with areas of the brain that are activated during meditation, in the same way the burning I feel lines up with an emotional nervous center in my chest. Again, my wife can confirm that my body temperature is normal, though I can feel energy coursing through me.

I find it interesting, but it isn't creating peace during or after the experience,so I recognize it as part of an otherwise unknown to me, mind/body interaction. I have heard people can become aware of the intricate workings of internal organs, again, probably really interesting, but the real test is does it translate into greater peace in daily life?.

I have found it is something that helps me relax when on sitting, so it is valuable to me, but not what I'm there to do. I didn't seek it out at least.

love

andy
getting it done

Renze

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Re: Questions about certain things about meditation
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2011, 10:36:36 AM »
I definitely experienced it, but would i have if i had never heard of it before? Hard to tell. It probably lines up with areas of the brain that are activated during meditation, in the same way the burning I feel lines up with an emotional nervous center in my chest. Again, my wife can confirm that my body temperature is normal, though I can feel energy coursing through me.

I actually experienced it, without ever hearing about the chakras before. Well, to be honest I heard about them, but didn't know much about them. Then I started feeling the pressure between my eyes, as others described it here. I've also felt pressure on my throat, and pressure on the top of my head. I believe those also correspond with chakras.
But I personally don't believe they're 'supernatural' energy centers or anything. Maybe nerve centers that are getting energized? Who knows... A few years back I did some martial art and learned that the throat and forehead are sensitive spots. Good spots to strike on if you want to make your opponent fall to the ground, without doing too much damage.

Andrew

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Re: Questions about certain things about meditation
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2011, 11:42:22 AM »
I was never an 'energy' person myself, though I have been aware of the concepts for many years. Like you i don't believe such energy to be spiritual (i.e. transcendent) and if it is aligned as the Chi / Qi / Ki /Prana practitioners say it is, then it is a part of the mind/ body interaction that needs to be calmed and transcended. Spirit i believe is the conscious base of the universe through which we can say things like, we are One etc. A part of a continuum of which we are not aware of most of the time.

I find it very relaxing to see things in this manner. That way I can confidently resume sitting, even though lately I have struggled. I find it the most simple way of keeping all my otherwise imaginative picture in check, just to see it as a continuum that I'm calming the more apparent 'parts' (mind/ body) to allow more of the intuitive parts (spirit/soul) to come through in my life.

It is a fabrication, but it is far more simple than  any of my previous fabrications!!

love

andy
 
getting it done

Matthew

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    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: Questions about certain things about meditation
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2011, 05:30:55 PM »
sorry if this is  little off-topic, the whole third eye thing is something I forget to remember to post about. Anyone ever get some kind of pressure or tension inbetween their eyes whilst sitting? Don't know much about chakras but there are definitely often feelings of tension inbetween the eyes and the crown. Interested in the many explanations people may have for this.

Alexanderjohn,

Based on watching many meditators in action on the cushion I would suggest this is purely physiological and related to poor posture and/or habitual worry manifesting in your facial muscles. I see it daily. It wears off in time like the rest of the crap we carry.

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

 

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