Author Topic: How has meditation changed your life?  (Read 38170 times)

Stefan

  • The Marvellous Omannobazong!!!
  • Member
  • love is the key
    • Vipassana (Goenka), Freestyle, Family, God
Re: How has meditation changed your life?
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2011, 12:32:54 PM »
Quote from: stefan
How about "accepting yout own happiness or non-happiness" with Equanimity?
IMO, this acceptance of everything, including happiness and unhappiness, comes after very advanced stages in meditative practice. At our stage, I think it is OK to accept the fact that we are doing all this meditation etc for our own happiness. After all, happiness is one of the basic motivations of a human being. So, there is not much use shrugging it off and trying to intellectually assimilate the idea that the real goal is to go beyond happiness as well as unhappiness when one does not understand it in reality. As one progresses in the path, the stage will some when one understands that through one's own experience. Until then, "I wanna be happy"  :P

All I can say is: my truly happy moments never started with "I wanna be ...".

It is so difficult, because "wanting to be happy without actually wanting to" is a gimmick that is only a paradox in the intelectual use of language. I love so much the concept of "Equanimity" that Goenkaji introduced to my life. Actually it put my meditation on an advanced stage. "Let go of wanting" is a progress that brings the happiness we so much desired.

With Metta, Stefan
anicca

Vivek

  • Moderator
  • Member
    • Advaita & U Ba Khin's tradition
Re: How has meditation changed your life?
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2011, 12:58:56 PM »
I am referring to the initial stages that a practitioner goes through: almost all of us start walking on the path because we want to get out of misery and move towards happiness. But as one advances, a stage comes when one naturally lets go of even this desire to be happy. What I am pointing towards is the relevance of the initial motivation and it looks perfectly sane to me. Goenkaji's stress on equanimity has inspired me a lot. However, I believe that it comes gradually. As one develops in equanimity, as a result of the experiential wisdom that one acquires, one lets go of even the want to be happy. I guess, both of us are talking the same thing.
Let's go beyond this illusion, shall we?

Morning Dew

Re: How has meditation changed your life?
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2011, 02:08:11 PM »
Quote
I am referring to the initial stages that a practitioner goes through: almost all of us start walking on the path because we want to get out of misery and move towards happiness. But as one advances, a stage comes when one naturally lets go of even this desire to be happy. What I am pointing towards is the relevance of the initial motivation

Agreed. Lets not forget that ego is the one meditating all the way  ;D it is killing it self which too is a goal  ;D

Quote
We all perceive according to the very perception we have at any given time.

and this one is changing as we speak  :P

I know you are right stefan but that is just true for you and for me it just another idea which came from another person. Door is just a word not the door itself. I must walk in my own shoes and gain my own insight into the nature of things.

We are all right in what we are saying when it comes to our very own lives at this very time at this very comprehension this very level of insight  :)
Let us only share it and not cling to being right or wrong.

Friendly
Che

thomas

  • Member
Re: How has meditation changed your life?
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2011, 04:20:46 PM »
copey and Che - thanks. encouraging at a time when I need it
back to the breath... and back to the breath....  and back to the breath.... and back to the breath..... and back to the breath

lente

Re: How has meditation changed your life?
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2011, 05:44:44 PM »
No, not wrong. But our suffering comes from craving, longing, wanting (and the other side of this particular coin, aversion, hatred, fear).
"I want to stop wanting", how does that sound to you?
Honestly? Not that great.

Quote
Of course, "end to all suffering" sounds great ... but it is "only a byproduct" of the true goal. When we meditate we make better progress without wanting anything. We just sit. That's it. Everything else will come eventually.


For me the end of suffering is definitely not the byproduct, but the whole purpose of the path. Yes I know that the buddha said tanha is the cause of suffering. But what did he mean by that? I have heard many explanations of the term, personally I find it hard the believe he really meant that desire = suffering. This seems to narrow. Are we to believe the buddha had no desires. That never an idea crossed his mind of which he thought "I like to make that happen". I'm not saying that desire is the correct translation for the word tanha, but it is one that I hear frequently and if I'm not mistaken it is what you are saying.

I think a strong desire and urgency to end your suffering is good. How likely is someone with a weak desire to end his suffering to actually end it?

As for "not a self to suffer" (or be happy) that is only at the stage where one fully realizes this. (according to some, the end of the path, i.e. here you won't suffer.) But for me and many others the self (illusion) is the daily reality.

What I'm trying to get at is that I find your attitude (if I understand it correctly) strange. I would think that the attitude "suffering and the end of suffering" is the most practical.

Kind regards, Lente.   



Stefan

  • The Marvellous Omannobazong!!!
  • Member
  • love is the key
    • Vipassana (Goenka), Freestyle, Family, God
Re: How has meditation changed your life?
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2011, 06:57:30 PM »
As I understand it, being enlightened means something completely unexplainable and incomprehensible to the non-enlightened (I guess that's us all  :) ). It is a goal, yes, we try to achieve it, yes, but as soon as we imagine it as something understandable (like "end of suffering"), then we don't see things as they really are (=Vipassana), but we create a veil that clouds our sight with a beautiful vision. In religion, it's "paradise", in Buddhism, it's "end of suffering".
As the believing Christian shouldn't create an image of god since it can't be the truth, a meditator ought to be careful with the expectations of what should happen as a result to his efforts (like "end of suffering") since he could overlook the "real thing".

Of course, us beginners wish and want all the time. I'm no better. That's why I try to be aware of it, and as a result my craving for any progress (often it is "end of pain") is slowly ceasing, and as a result of that the "wishes come true". Tricky.

I play guitar. When I play something complicated, I fail when I want to do it right. As soon as I stop wanting and just ... play it, then it works. And everybody who is into competitive sports will tell you that you don't think or want, you just do it or else you will fail. And when I meditate, every time a "wanting" for a certain experience arises I fail to get into it. And that, my dear fellow meditators, is quite often.  ;)
« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 06:59:33 PM by stefan »
anicca

Stefan

  • The Marvellous Omannobazong!!!
  • Member
  • love is the key
    • Vipassana (Goenka), Freestyle, Family, God
Re: How has meditation changed your life?
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2011, 07:16:26 PM »

I know you are right stefan but that is just true for you and for me it just another idea which came from another person.


Truth is true for everybody. But it can only be true when experienced. When I read through this forum, I sometimes read about stuff I never experienced, and therefore it is to me, as you say, "just another idea from another person". But I find it interesting to read about it and then not judge it. Is it true or not? I don't pose the question since eventually I will find out myself wether it is true. And then, when I find it to be true as a result of experience, it is sometimes very useful to have heard about it.



 I must walk in my own shoes and gain my own insight into the nature of things.


Nothing else is possible.  :)



We are all right in what we are saying when it comes to our very own lives at this very time at this very comprehension this very level of insight  :)
Let us only share it and not cling to being right or wrong.


I'm interested in discussing topics like these for the insights I gain. That's why I offer you my insights.
I'm not interested in "wanting to be right" or "not wanting to be wrong" ... or at least I try ...  ;)


So ... to go back to the topic ... meditation also taught me that I lead an easier life when I cease my constant wanting.

With Metta, Stefan
anicca

lente

Re: How has meditation changed your life?
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2011, 09:42:52 PM »
...a meditator ought to be careful with the expectations of what should happen as a result to his efforts (like "end of suffering") since he could overlook the "real thing".


Overlook the real thing? If the real thing ain't THE END OF SUFFERING than I don't want to see it. ;)

I'm only half joking. I take the promise of the buddha that the eightfold path leads to the end of suffering very seriously.

I don't like the "anything could happen" approach. I like to know where I am going.

Kind regards, lente

Jeeprs

Re: How has meditation changed your life?
« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2011, 03:26:37 AM »
I agree, you need to know where you are going. This is why ‘right view’ is the first step on the eightfold path.

A favourite saying of mine from Krishnamurti: it is the truth that liberates you, not your effort to be free.

Of course it is very easy to conclude from this that no effort is required (as I often did). But the Buddha’s teaching is actually ‘right effort’, not ‘no effort’. Right effort is turning up for practice, and sitting. But that is all. Past that point I can’t make any effort in the direction of freedom, because that which is free in me, is already free and always has been, whereas the part that wants to be free, is not free and can never be free. If you keep looking at it long enough you start to understand why, but it is a profound truth, and hard to fathom.

Andrew

  • Member
    • friends tell me things, sometimes I listen.
    • Letting Go.
Re: How has meditation changed your life?
« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2011, 04:04:26 AM »
I agree, you need to know where you are going. This is why ‘right view’ is the first step on the eightfold path.

A favourite saying of mine from Krishnamurti: it is the truth that liberates you, not your effort to be free.

Of course it is very easy to conclude from this that no effort is required (as I often did). But the Buddha’s teaching is actually ‘right effort’, not ‘no effort’. Right effort is turning up for practice, and sitting. But that is all. Past that point I can’t make any effort in the direction of freedom, because that which is free in me, is already free and always has been, whereas the part that wants to be free, is not free and can never be free. If you keep looking at it long enough you start to understand why, but it is a profound truth, and hard to fathom.


awesome.that just had to be 'said' again. wow. I like the image alot. And the truth will set you free...free from thinking about freeing what can't be freed, and free to enjoy that which has always been free. Jeeprs, thats gold.

love

andy
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 04:08:31 AM by daydreamer »
getting it done

Stefan

  • The Marvellous Omannobazong!!!
  • Member
  • love is the key
    • Vipassana (Goenka), Freestyle, Family, God
Re: How has meditation changed your life?
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2011, 07:06:19 AM »


I like to know where I am going.


but to be honest, we don't.

I don't intend to contradict the Buddhas words in any way! I only say that "end of suffering" are three words only ... they don't prepare us where we are going. The words "end of suffering" are similar to a map: When I travelled to India, the map of India didn't prepare me for the shock to actually be there. But still, it helped me to find a hotel  ;) ... "end of suffering" is the hotel we look forward to, but not as a goal (in the same way India isn't just the hotel), more as a ... useful information.

Metta, Stefan
anicca

Stefan

  • The Marvellous Omannobazong!!!
  • Member
  • love is the key
    • Vipassana (Goenka), Freestyle, Family, God
Re: How has meditation changed your life?
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2011, 07:13:49 AM »

I agree, you need to know where you are going. This is why ‘right view’ is the first step on the eightfold path.


We desperately need to know where we are going.  ;) That's why we go there!
Right view also means admitting that we don't know anything about "the goal" since we have not been there yet.



A favourite saying of mine from Krishnamurti: it is the truth that liberates you, not your effort to be free.


Metta, Stefan
anicca

Morning Dew

Re: How has meditation changed your life?
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2011, 08:13:23 AM »
Quote
A favourite saying of mine from Krishnamurti: it is the truth that liberates you, not your effort to be free.


and the truth is the very self happening at any given moment, this very moment and this very moment and this very moment and this very moment and this very moment and this ... moment  :) can't you see it?  :)  The truth is happening all the time, moment to moment  :D  maybe not the truth we hope for and maybe uncomfortable and painful but its the most truthful truth at this very moment  ;D Do you see it?
Stay aware of it and keep relaxing into the body. The only effort that is needed is to get your lazy ars go and sit daily for half an hour or hour or what ever time you choose.

Stay with the truth what ever that truth might be moment to moment every moment.

Che

Jeeprs

Re: How has meditation changed your life?
« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2011, 08:35:34 AM »
Right view also means admitting that we don't know anything about "the goal" since we have not been there yet

But that is also why after spending years reading Krishnamurti, I still chose to 'take refuge' in Buddhism.  Even though there were very important things I understood from reading Krishnamurti, and I was very moved by his 'pathless land' teaching,  I was (and still am) caught up in a lot of negative samskaras and hindrances which no amount of 'reading Krishnamurti' seemed to affect.

So as regards the goal and forming a right view of it, I have good grounds to believe that the Buddha did reach the goal, and that others after him have also reached it, even though I still can't really see it completely.  So at the end of the day, that is a matter of faith. It is not faith in the sense of blind faith or 'clinging to dogma' but faith in the sense of confidence in the principles and the basic sanity of all of those who have lived by them. It is confidence that if these principles are applied, they work.  It is also the confidence inspired by being part of a community of like-minded people.  I am realising that there is actually a whole 'Buddhist world' which is completely different to the conflicted and dualistic 'Western world' which is where I started from. And feeling like I am part of all this is also one of the ways that meditation has changed my life. It's like I am already in a completely different place to where I was when I started out. And the journey is not even finished yet. :)

Morning Dew

Re: How has meditation changed your life?
« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2011, 08:53:14 AM »
Quote
I was (and still am) caught up in a lot of negative samskaras and hindrances which no amount of 'reading Krishnamurti' seemed to affect.


Krishnamurti NEVER said "through reading my books you will see the truth" LOL LOL haha ha whahammmhgferhgigs  ;D sorry just lost one of my heads here for a moment (Zaphod Beeblebrox) ahmm!
Actualy my post above expalined Krishnamurtis teaching very well indeed (care to disagree  8)  );

Quote
and the truth is the very self happening at any given moment, this very moment and this very moment and this very moment and this very moment and this very moment and this ... moment   can't you see it?    The truth is happening all the time, moment to moment    maybe not the truth we hope for and maybe uncomfortable and painful but its the most truthful truth at this very moment   Do you see it?
Stay aware of it and keep relaxing into the body. The only effort that is needed is to get your lazy ars go and sit daily for half an hour or hour or what ever time you choose.

Stay with the truth what ever that truth might be moment to moment every moment.

Krishnamurti quotes;
Quote
First of all sit absolutely still. Sit comfortably, cross your legs, sit absolutely still, close your eyes, and see if you can keep your eyes from moving. You understand? Your eye balls are apt to move, keep them completely quiet, for fun. Then, as you sit very quietly, find out what your thought is doing. Watch it as you watched the lizard. Watch thought, the way it runs, one thought after another. So you begin to learn, to observe.

Are you watching your thoughts - how one thought pursues another thought, thought saying, ''This is a good thought, this is a bad thought''? When you go to bed at night, and when you walk, watch your thought. Just watch thought, do not correct it, and then you will learn the beginning of meditation. Now sit very quietly. Shut your eyes and see that the eyeballs do not move at all. Then watch your thoughts so that you learn. Once you begin to learn there is no end to learning.

Quote
When you sit down, do you sit really quietly? Is your body really very quiet? Do you know what it means to sit quietly? Do you keep your eyes closed? Are you relaxed? Do you sit really quietly?

Please listen to this. Are your nerves, your body movements and your eyes absolutely quiet? Is your body very quiet without twitching, without any movement and when you close your eyes are they still? To sit quietly means your whole body is relaxed, your nerves are not strained, not irritated, there is no movement in friction, you are physically absolutely quiet.

Look, sit absolutely quiet without a single movement so that your hands, your eyes, everything are completely quiet.

It is enough to read only one Krishnamurti book and then forgett about it trhow it in the bin and do it instead. It is about knowing one self via awareness and relaxing, calming the body, stilling it.

Che

Jeeprs

Re: How has meditation changed your life?
« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2011, 10:04:28 AM »
Hey Che - not going to disagree with you. That is just how it was, for me. The Krishnamurti books Awakening of Intelligence, First and Last Freedom, and Krishnamurti's Notebook, had big impact on me. Nevertheless I feel strongly affiliated with Buddhism now. That could easily be a psychological need on my part. It is a vehicle, at the end of the day.

Stefan

  • The Marvellous Omannobazong!!!
  • Member
  • love is the key
    • Vipassana (Goenka), Freestyle, Family, God
Re: How has meditation changed your life?
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2011, 05:23:30 PM »



and the truth is the very self happening at any given moment, this very moment and this very moment and this very moment and this very moment and this very moment and this ... moment  :) can't you see it?  :)  The truth is happening all the time, moment to moment  :D  maybe not the truth we hope for and maybe uncomfortable and painful but its the most truthful truth at this very moment  ;D Do you see it?


Nope!  8)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 05:31:00 PM by stefan »
anicca

Stefan

  • The Marvellous Omannobazong!!!
  • Member
  • love is the key
    • Vipassana (Goenka), Freestyle, Family, God
Re: How has meditation changed your life?
« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2011, 05:30:32 PM »
Right view also means admitting that we don't know anything about "the goal" since we have not been there yet

But that is also why after spending years reading Krishnamurti, I still chose to 'take refuge' in Buddhism.  Even though there were very important things I understood from reading Krishnamurti ...,  I was (and still am) caught up in a lot of negative samskaras and hindrances which no amount of 'reading Krishnamurti' seemed to affect.

I understand this perfectly well. In my case, it was different "hinduistic" stuff. Not only reading books, but also some practice, some yoga stuff, some meditation.
... Nothing ever had an impact on me as Vipassana did. Not so much "the philosophy" but the meditation technique I learned.
On my 10day-course I cleared myself of cascades of obstacles in a way I never experienced before.
"Hinduism" taught me why, "Buddhism" shows me how.  :)
anicca

thomas

  • Member
Re: How has meditation changed your life?
« Reply #43 on: February 18, 2011, 08:41:59 AM »
Quote
A favourite saying of mine from Krishnamurti: it is the truth that liberates you, not your effort to be free.


and the truth is the very self happening at any given moment, this very moment and this very moment and this very moment and this very moment and this very moment and this ... moment  :) can't you see it?  :)  The truth is happening all the time, moment to moment  :D  maybe not the truth we hope for and maybe uncomfortable and painful but its the most truthful truth at this very moment  ;D Do you see it?
Stay aware of it and keep relaxing into the body. The only effort that is needed is to get your lazy ars go and sit daily for half an hour or hour or what ever time you choose.

Stay with the truth what ever that truth might be moment to moment every moment.

Che


Amazing how often I need this drilled in to my head - The mind truly is a bizare beast. keep it coming!
back to the breath... and back to the breath....  and back to the breath.... and back to the breath..... and back to the breath

Renze

  • Member
    • Ungrounded
    • No hope
Re: How has meditation changed your life?
« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2011, 06:04:21 PM »
Today I had an appointment with a psychiatrist to talk about my mood swings. I mentioned during the conversation that I practice samatha meditation. Near the end of the session, she said she could definitely see how my practice has affected me. She noticed how easily I talked about my mental problems and my personality, as if I'm almost completely at peace with them. I could see that she was impressed by this. She told me to carry on practicing, because eventually it will be an enormous help to deal with my hypomanic episodes. Best advice I ever got from a shrink.  :D Anyway, this conversation definitely is proof to me that meditation can and will change your life.

Andrew

  • Member
    • friends tell me things, sometimes I listen.
    • Letting Go.
Re: How has meditation changed your life?
« Reply #45 on: March 12, 2011, 01:25:38 AM »
Thankyou Renze, I needed some encouragement today...

love

andy
getting it done

Renze

  • Member
    • Ungrounded
    • No hope
Re: How has meditation changed your life?
« Reply #46 on: March 12, 2011, 05:48:35 PM »
This forum has been great encouragement for me, I'm glad I could return the favor :)

ramelec

  • Member
    • NEWBIE Mindfullness of Breath
Re: How has meditation changed your life?
« Reply #47 on: March 13, 2011, 08:34:31 AM »
Renze, that is an inspiration!

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Member
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: How has meditation changed your life?
« Reply #48 on: March 13, 2011, 07:08:05 PM »
This forum has been great encouragement for me, I'm glad I could return the favor :)

That's the point :)
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

ivana

Re: How has meditation changed your life?
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2011, 10:53:41 PM »
Hi Friends
Meditation changed my looking for a rich man to looking for people whom I can help by teaching meditation. I safe more money by not buying cosmetics and going to hairdresser. I write poems sometimes before I could not do it. I am a member of this forum.Maybe the last change is the most important.
Good night everybody.
Ivana

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
18 Replies
6762 Views
Last post June 09, 2010, 09:06:52 AM
by Morning Dew
4 Replies
2321 Views
Last post January 01, 2012, 08:35:32 AM
by Morning Dew
2 Replies
1864 Views
Last post July 30, 2012, 05:31:50 PM
by thirdeyeblind82
12 Replies
5755 Views
Last post September 27, 2012, 11:29:24 AM
by Lokuttara
1 Replies
1393 Views
Last post October 01, 2013, 08:41:22 PM
by Dharmic Tui
8 Replies
1545 Views
Last post August 28, 2017, 06:17:11 PM
by dharma bum
8 Replies
758 Views
Last post May 29, 2020, 06:44:41 PM
by Dhamma